Talk:Dinesh D'Souza

The bundled citations under Conspiracy theorist label in the lead are horrendous for Wikipedia Standards and will be removed

There was a previous talk page discussion about the veracity of a certain citation not having any mention of Dinesh D`Souza being a Conspiracy theorist, which led me to go check out all the citations that were bundled under that label. These citations are atrocious.

Lets do a break down of all the bundled citations:

1) Springer Link -- I honestly don't know what I'm looking at here. Dinesh D`Souza is located no where anywhere on this page/article

2)The eternal George Soros -- same deal, don't know what the context is for this being a citation for Dinesh (Once again mentioned nowhere on this citation article/page). Looks like a book synopsis for something not written by D`Souza.

3)Radio National -- Trump pardons right-wing conspiracy theorist Dinesh D’Souza — World News with Matt Bevan - This plays a 7 minute audio clip from a pod cast that talk about North Korea accompanied by a short article calling Dinesh a Conspiracy theorist but with no supporting facts supporting the claim?

4)Buzzfeed.news -- Trump Says He Will Pardon Far-Right Commentator Dinesh D'Souza - This article does actually name D`Souza as a Conspiracy theorist and is from a reliable source.

5)The Nation - ABC News Helps Dinesh D’Souza Hype His Latest Conspiracy Theory -- albeit from a reliable source, this is just WP:HEADLINES, because nowhere in the article does it call him a conspiracy theorist. The only use of the word is here:

 "To her credit, Raddatz introduced D’Souza’s recently released movie (currently number twelve at the box office) by saying, “[you] essentially have a conspiracy theory about Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama turning this nation into a socialistic nation"

6)New Republic - Grifters All the Way Down -- This calls him a conspiracy theorist, but has no supporting facts.

7Daily Beast - Trevor Noah Compares Trump-Pardoned Dinesh D’Souza to KKK ‘Grand Wizard’ -- Daily Beast is considred a biased source on WP:RSP, this labels him a Conspiracy theorist but has no supporting facts.

8)CNN - Trump is turning his pardon power into a shield -- CNN is a reliable source, but here in this article the only mention of him being a conspiracy theorist is in this following sentence:

"Some of the President’s pardons rewarded Trump partisans like right-wing conspiracy theorist Dinesh D’Souza"

Now, out of 8 sources. The only reliable source citation that actually labels him as a conspiracy theorist and gives supporting evidence is Buzzfeed.news. Just one. so time to remove the other 7. That leaves one. One single article claiming somebody is a conspiracy theorist is not popular opinion. WP:BLP specifically WP:REDFLAG makes very clear you can't do stuff like this. I will be removing these links as well as conspiracy theorist label from the lead paragraph. Eruditess (talk) 01:55, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

So, as far as 1), I don't know if you just clicked the article link, but it looks like the link just goes to the abstract. You have to buy the article. Same for 2). 3 is Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which I think is a reliable source. I don't think there is enough justification to remove the word or the citations. If you still disagree, put out a RfC. Xenologer48 (talk) 02:22, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Source 1 was easy to find and says "The United States gave him refuge but could not spare him from slander, from right-wing efforts to disseminate outrageous falsehoods about him. Conservatives might normally be expected to see in Soros the workings of the invisible hand of the marketplace, but instead he has become an exemplar of the hidden hand. Most recently the conspiracy theorist Dinesh D’Souza accused Soros of supporting antifa, that is, of backing “domestic terrorism.” No evidence whatsoever of that support exists. Yet the petition submitted to http://www.whitehouse.gov drew over 138,000 signatories, demanding of President Trump (who pardoned D’Souza, a campaign-law violator, in late May, 2018) that the chief executive “declare George Soros a terrorist and seize all of his related organizations’ assets under RICO.”"[1] Source 2 says "The US conspiracy theorist and pro-Trump commentator Dinesh D'Souza accused Soros of being ’a sponsor of domestic terrorism' for supposedly financing anti-fascist organisations (D’Souza: 2017). No evidence whatsoever of this exists." Doug Weller talk 11:24, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Forgot, we don't need reliable sources to provide supporting evidence. Doug Weller talk 11:25, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Sources that don't provide supporting evidence aren't necessarily reliable, WP:RSCONTEXT comes into play and if WP:BIASED could be established then mere name-calling could be dismissed. So a proposal to remove a citation is worth discussing. However, an RfC in 2019 decided "conspiracy theorist" is okay and I don't encourage a new RfC unless you can show reason for believing consensus could have changed. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 16:44, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Few if any sources are inherently reliable. But there is no requirement for evidence. And for me, context always matters. Doug Weller talk 16:46, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Awards and nominations

Greenock125 on 27 November 2017 inserted what is now the article's Awards and nomination section. I looked at the content, saw that the award is not actually a result of serious review (Wikipedia describes Golden Raspberry Awards as a "parody award show"), and I reverted it on 4 April 2021 with edit summary = "Undid revision as of 27 November 2017 by blocked user Greenock125. Looks like some sort of joke." Valjean on 5 April 2022 re-inserted with edit summary = "Reverted good faith edits by Peter Gulutzan (talk): Removal of long-standing content should be discussed first. This content is accurate." Actually WP:BLPREQUESTRESTORE has no clause that if something is long-standing then Valjean can re-insert without discussing first. But to avoid more back-and-forth reverting I ask for other opinions: is there consensus for the re-insertion of the section? This is not about the mentions of the so-called awards elsewhere in the article, this is solely about additionally devoting a section. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 15:40, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

This was not "some sort of joke." Dinesh had this to say when he received the award: "This is absolutely fantastic. My audience loves the fact that you hate me. Thank you." If this had been unsourced negative content, then BLP would apply, and I would not have restored it, but this is a well-known and widely-covered award given each year, and this content is accurate. D'Souza did receive it for Worst Picture, Worst Director, and Worst Actor. (Here's the latest news for a 2022 recipient: Bruce Willis's 2022 award was rescinded after news of his diagnosis. This has been widely reported. There are times when you don't make someone the butt of a joke. That would be tasteless. Good for them to realize this.)

It is indeed a parody award, similar to the Ig Nobel Prize. They are always widely covered in RS, so we also cover them. We even have an article for the few recipients who actually meet up to accept it! Dinesh did it. "Most winners, with some exceptions, have not attended the Golden Raspberry Awards ceremony or personally accepted their award." See his listing at List of people who have accepted Golden Raspberry Awards.

Dinesh D'Souza was recognized at the 37th Golden Raspberry Awards with awards Worst Picture, Worst Director, and Worst Actor, for the 2016 documentary Hillary's America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party. He appeared in the video announcing the award winners, accepting the Razzies his documentary had received. D'Souza mockingly stated, "The reason you are giving it to me is because you are very upset that Trump won. You haven't gotten over it, you probably never will" and "This kind of award is really good for my career. See, if I'd gotten an Oscar, I'd be done. I couldn't make another movie, my audience wouldn't even show up. They'd have think I would have become one of you." He helps conclude the video by saying "To win a Razzie, being dissed by you guys? This is absolutely fantastic. My audience loves the fact that you hate me. Thank you."

My restoration is simply based on the fact that it's accurate content and not a joke. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:17, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

It's fine if your opinion is that the Razzies are serious or deserve long mentions twice in the article. But I asked for "other opinions". If there are none, I'll try WP:3O. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 14:33, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Twice? You hadn't mentioned that. I'm away from my PC, so it's difficult to examine the whole article on my phone. Without seeing the duplication, I'll accept that the issue should be resolved in some way that doesn't mean total deletion of the subject. Go for it. I'm sure you can do that in a fair manner. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 14:43, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Valjean: I did mention it. Apparently you didn't read or comprehend what I posted above -- "This is not about the mentions of the so-called awards elsewhere in the article, this is solely about additionally devoting a section." Apparently you didn't read the article either, eh? I'll wait a day and if there's nothing further in this thread then I'll again remove what Greenock125 inserted. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 15:01, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

I vote we keep the raspberries.Xenologer48 (talk) 17:01, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Xenologer48 Are you saying you think the section should stay in? Peter Gulutzan (talk) 14:23, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes, unless the sources are not reliable. The Golden Raspberries are notable enough.Xenologer48 (talk) 15:57, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Xenologer48, I fear you are missing the point. The issue isn't whether we should mention the Razzies (we should), but whether we should do it twice. The table is flashy but the mention in the body (at #Hillary's America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party (2016)) is more thorough and does the job fine. Therefore let's get rid of the table at the bottom. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:48, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed solution: Rename the section Recognition -- to make clear these are not awards in the sense most readers would expect. SPECIFICO talk 16:40, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

You're saying you think the section should stay in? Peter Gulutzan (talk) 17:07, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Yes. There's no doubt it passes due weight, but there seems to be some reasonable objection to calling the Razzies "awards" in wiki-voice. SPECIFICO talk 19:11, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

The issue isn't whether we should mention the Razzies (we should), but whether we should do it twice. The table is flashy but the mention in the body (at #Hillary's America: The Secret History of the Democratic Party (2016)) is more thorough and does the job fine. Therefore let's get rid of the table at the bottom. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 19:27, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

• I don't believe we should include it in a table. If it's already described in the article, that's good enough. He doesn't have any other awards or recognitions, so why would we make a section just to highlight that he won an award for being a horrible filmmaker? I mean, all you have to do is watch the film to figure that out... HappyMcSlappy (talk) 21:46, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

I undid the blocked user's revision a second time. Three editors favour removal of the section, two editors favour keeping. The pro-keepers have not responded to the explanation that this only means the awards aren't described at length twice. So there's either consensus against re-insertion or at least no consensus for re-insertion, and I hope the pro-keepers will accept that's required. Peter Gulutzan (talk) 14:56, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Conviction of bundling.

No discussion of the reasons he gives as to how he was singled out for prosecution, please add context. Very biased. 74.4.61.177 (talk) 21:31, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2022

The description of Antifa is not quite correct, I would to provide a more accurate description, or in this case, short description where is mentioned.

Thank you, best regards Ungajack (talk) 17:55, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.Xenologer48 (talk) 18:17, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Discussion for recent edits on the 2000 mules section

@Brenr I've reverted your edit again. If you have something you would like to discuss, please do so.Xenologer48 (talk) 13:58, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Trevor Noah is not a reliable source and this is serious BLP vio stuff. soibangla (talk) 14:33, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Yes. I don't necessarily object to that small part being removed. It was the other things that were not mentioned in the edit summary that altered the presentation of 2000 mules. They changed some words to make 2000 mules appear to be accurate while reliable sources (such as the AP report in that section) report otherwise. I have no objection to removing the Daily Beast citation, as there are more than enough other sources calling him a conspiracy theorist.

Thanks for replying. I'll go ahead and make that edit.Xenologer48 (talk) 14:41, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

STOP! Soibangla, you are missing an important point here. Noah is not cited for this content. The source is one of many RS used to document the view that Dinesh is a conspiracy theorist. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 14:45, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Ok. I will not change anything then. Xenologer48 (talk) 14:47, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

This discussion is confusing as it covers Noah and 2000 Mules, two very different topics. Maybe start a new thread? -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 14:51, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

As long as Brenr's initial edit remains reverted, we're okay. There was nothing wrong with the status quo version. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:03, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Judge & Jury?

Why does the 2000 Miles description state that the movie "falsely alleges" voter fraud? Are you the judge and jury in this situation, because I just watched a whole lot of video evidence of some very questionable voter ballot box stuffing that doesn't look like "false allegations" to me.... This data is new, so I find out hard to believe that you can jump to the conclusion that it "falsely alleges" anything yet until you know whether it can be validated or not! 206.128.78.207 (talk) 06:09, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

The AP reports that these allegations are false. We go with reliable sources over D'Souza.Xenologer48 (talk) 11:58, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Although this isn't concrete evidence one way or the other, D'Souza's reputation for dishonest propaganda doesn't exactly inspire confidence that he is suddenly being honest. No, he remains a propagandist. The same applies for anything coming from Trump or Project Veritas. The default assumption, based on history, is that these people and organizations are likely lying to us.

The more solid reason is that their so-called "evidence" is so faulty as to be worthless, and that's what RS tell us, so our content is based on that. The burden of proof that such voter fraud has happened is on D'Souza, and his "evidence" does not back his claims. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 14:54, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Add the category Former Roman Catholics

He was raised Catholic, but is now a non-denominational. I cannot edit the article. So please add that. 73.148.104.166 (talk) 20:16, 15 May 2022 (UTC)