Talk:World War II casualties of the Soviet Union

"USSR had casualties because Stalin ignored warnings and was not prepared"

This anti-Soviet post-1950s revisionist talking point is all over this article, even though this claim is completely uncited and this very article counters that very claim with cited sources stating that USSR casualties were due to lack of medical technology and the fact that Nazis ignored the 1929 Geneva Convention and murdered USSR prisoners of war, which they considered "Untermensch" via their "General Plan Ost" which called for eliminating all Soviets and taking over the USSR to establish German colonies. This article needs a major cleanup. 2603:7000:8C01:1513:E1BC:259F:67A8:259 (talk) 15:12, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

The contrasting factors/theses listed above are not mutually exclusive.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 00:24, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

15-17 million civilians killed by the Nazis ?

Including millions died in regions not even reached by the Nazis (see table for Soviet republics in article). Including victims of war between local collaborators and partisans/Soviet authorities, as one can guess. Including victims of war between Poles & Ukrainians, as one can guess. Including victims of deportations of whole "collaborator nationalities" by Soviet authorities, as one can guess. Including etc. - Sounds somewhat overstated, superficial and inappropriate. Melthyukov's blanket statement. --129.187.244.19 (talk) 12:03, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

How Krivosheev’s Calculations Came into Being

Professor, D.A. and WWII veteran Feodor Setin has made a big contribution of documents to The State Archive of the Russian Federation (GARF). While collecting those documents at The Central Archives of of the USSR Defense Ministry he met and had many contacts with a group of officers mostly colonels engaged in investigation of classified data on military losses of the Soviet Armed Forces. They have admitted that earlier there was another group having discovered over 30 million death toll, a figure non-acceptable to higher authorities. “Too many”, they said. Obviously it was a group of Makhmut Gareev and Grigoriy Krivosheev which has produced an acceptable calculation. Въ 109.252.188.39 (talk) 15:41, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

How 56,9 percent Mortality Rate in Red Army Became Known

“You are not supposed to know these figures”, said in a live talk show of Vladimir Pozner “Времена” ("Times") President of the Academy of Military Sciences General of the Army M.A. Gareev, defending Krivosheev’s casualties figures. That means, dear EnWiki readers, that you are also being deprived of true figures as those of the present Russian military losses in the Ukraine. After destruction of personal files of soldiers and warent officers in 1953 all military losses became mere assumptions, except those of Communist Party and Komsomol members. Their files are still intact in The Russian State Archive of Socio-Political History (RGASPI). Also undisputable is the total death toll of 26.6 million. As for the full strength of the Red Army in WWII, the new number of conscripts has been revealed by Igor Ivlev. It is 40,656,993. This enables us to learn total military losses almost exactly.

Category/Total Strength of Both	By June 22, 1941	Conscripted	Admitted to Party while in Service	Admitted to Party from Komsomol	Retired from Komsomol due to Age	Invalids Сommissioned	Stayed in Service	Dеad or Missing	Sources and Estimates
Communists 8,063,000	563,000*	1,500,000**	6,000,000***	—	—	2,345,000*****	1,579,000*****	4,139,000 (dead, missing, deserters, other causes)	*ЭВОВ-352, **СОВОВ-955, ***СОВОВ-956, ****"ВОВ Сов. Союза 1941-45 гг.", М.: Воениздат, 1965, с. 589, *****ЭВОВ-360
Komsomol Members 8,230,542	2,000,000*	3,500,000*	5,000,000**	1,769,458***	500,000****	2,374,000*****	726,000*****	5,130,542 (dead, missing, deserters, other causes)	*СВЭ-2-401, ЭВОВ-186, **СВЭ-2-401, ЭВОВ-187, ***СВЭ-2-401, ИВОВ-6-367,******"Великая победа советского народа 1941-1945", М.: Наука, 1976, с. 124
Communists and Komsomol Members 16,293,542	2,563,000	5,000,000	11,000,000	—	—	4,408,000*****	2,305,000*****	9,269,542 (Combined Losses in Both Categories or 56,9 percent of All Conscripted)	****Estimates by I. Ivlev according to the number of Komsomol members in the Red Army born in 1913, 1914, 1915, 1916, *****Estimates by I. Ivlev from the number of invalids (11,000,000) according to the share of both categories in the Soviet Armed Forces

Abbreviations: ЭВОВ — энциклопедия "Великая Отечественная война 1941-45 гг.", М.: Советская энциклопедия, 1985 г.; ИВОВ - "История Великой Отечественной войны Советского Союза. 1941-1945", М.: Воениздат, 1961-65 гг.; СОВОВ — "Стратегический очерк Великой Отечественной войны 1941-1945 гг.", М.: Воениздат, 1961.

This mortality rate makes the total Soviet military losses 23,133,829 under Ivlev's recent calculations of all conscripts of 40,656,993 after investigating all the Memory Books. All figures are from the most reliable Soviet sources.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.252.188.39 (talk • contribs) in March 2022

Russian v Soviet

I feel this article uses these words interchangeably in places. Eg there is a whole section on “Russian sources”. Are these Russian language? From the Russian soviet republic or Russian Federation? Or simply Soviet? The USSR (and both its casualties and scholarship) was not homogenously Russian but also Ukrainian, Georgian, etc etc). BobFromBrockley (talk) 21:18, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

CDMA Veterans have Counted 23.45 Million Dead and Missing Servicemen

The Article contains some outdated data by Sergey Il'enkov of 1996 and 2001. I propose to replace them by his figures of 2021 published in May 2021. The passage may look this way. Colonel Sergey Il'enkov, Head of the MD Archive Service, and Vladimir Eliseev, both long-term employees of the Central Defense Ministry Archive, processed the CDMA card index for many years and counted 23.5 million cards, and excluding duplicates, 21.3 million people, whose individual death is somehow documented. It does not reflect materials from other departmental archives (for example, the naval one, where there are about 150 thousand people in a similar card index), so we can talk about 21.45 million killed or dead military personnel.

I think to ad this to the beginning of the article, as the most recent information. Въ 109.252.188.39 (talk) 12:04, 25 May 2022 (UTC).