Talk:Sally Hemings

Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2021

They were not sexual partners. He raped and abused her for years. She was a slave trapped in a basement. Calling them sexual partners eludes to it being a consensual/healthy relationship. The relationship was involuntary as well as the intercourse. She was never freed by him either. 198.54.107.43 (talk) 12:05, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:16, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Baloney. The relationship started when Hemings was a free woman in Paris and treated as a paid employee by Jefferson. She also had plenty of job skills at the time, and could have survived had she left him. She negotiated with Jefferson and agreed to return with him to Virginia (where she resumed her slave status) if he agreed to free all their children when they reached 21. The room in which she stayed was meager and sparse, but in NO way qualifies as a "basement" or a "hole in the wall".--WickerGuy (talk) 19:07, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

No Scientific Proof Exists That Thomas Jefferson Fathered Sally Heming's Children

The claim that Thomas Jefferson fathered one or more of Sally Heming's children exists only as an oral tradition. The article presents it as a settled fact, which is not the case. The Jefferson/Hemings rumor was started in the first place by a political rival of Thomas's. Although Sally Hemings had several children, only descendents of her youngest, Eston, had DNA from somebody in the Jefferson line. At the time of Eston's conception, Thomas was 65. There were eight male Jeffersons, almost all younger, who frequently visited or stayed at Monticello at that time. Thomas's younger brother Randolph is a possible candidate, or any one of Randolph's five sons, who were then in their teens and twenties. The following link gives a detailed analysis of the Jefferson DNA:

https://pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/true/primer.html

Human nature will always find something fun and intriguing in the belief that a Founding Father had feet of clay. But, so far, proof does not exist that Thomas Jefferson did. A claim that's essentially ancient gossip does not belong, unchallenged, in Wikipedia. The article needs serious revision in the direction of science and proven reality. Younggoldchip (talk) 13:17, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

The PBS.org page you linked to says this is a "dissenting memo from John H. Works, Jr., a Jefferson descendant and a past president of the Monticello Association":

Dr. Foster concluded that "the simplest and most probable explanation for our molecular findings are that Thomas Jefferson, rather than one of the Carr brothers, was the father of Eston Hemings Jefferson, [Sally Heming's youngest son]... This DNA study testing the Y chromosome found that there was a link to "some" Jefferson, but not necessarily Thomas, having been the father of Eston, Sally Heming's youngest son. These DNA tests indicated that any one of 8 Jeffersons could have been the father of Eston and there was nothing to indicate it was Thomas."

So even according to this conflicted source you cite, Thomas Jefferson still could have been Eston Heming's father—he wasn't eliminated as a candidate, and according to the study the most probable explanation is that Thomas Jefferson was the father of Eston Hemings Jefferson, a fact of "proven reality" in the "direction of science" that you omit (i.e., the fact that this is "the most probable explanation"). The article can reflect that. Carlstak (talk) 18:29, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

I didn't deny that Thomas Jefferson "could" have been Eston Heming's father, I pointed out only that this has not been proven. Any one of eight male Jeffersons were also on site and equally likely to have fathered Eston. In fact, it would seem likelier that one of Randolph Jefferson's young sons was the father, rather than a 65-year-old Virginia aristocrat who had a very strong sense of his own dignity, and even wrote tracts against relations with enslaved women. But, this is only opinion. I look forward to advances in DNA assessment which will give the answer to this longstanding question. Younggoldchip (talk) 15:25, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Caricature

I can see many people have worked very hard on this page, from reviewing the archive of previous discussions and edits. However I could not find any discussion of how it came to be that a caricature of Sally Hemings is used as her primary photo. While this is taken out of context, the original caricature depicts Hemings as a chicken, or hen. I find this offensive as there is a long-standing tradition of depicting African Americans as animals which continues to the present day in many more insidious forms. Not only is this offensive, it is also historically inaccurate. The man who created this caricature never saw Sally Hemings with his own eyes. Furthermore, the few contemporary descriptions of Hemings describe her as 'nearly white' or something to that effect. Obviously this image presents an imagined African American enslaved woman. I know the article is much enhanced by an image, but I think a different one should be used. I believe there are other artistic depictions of her that are more respectful (if also doubtful in their historical accuracy). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:4040:6004:C500:3129:56F:5A43:5E9E (talk) 13:24, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. I am removing this image, especially since no one has replied to the above observation with a counter view or objection. An artistic interpretation of her image or perhaps another image associated with Hemings should eventually replace it. Curious georgianna (talk) 06:12, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Experienced editors needed on similar article

Wikipedia currently has an article about a man named West Ford who may have been a descendant of George Washington or his brother John Washington. This raises issues (e.g. notability) similar to the issues for Sally Hemings and her children, three of whom have Wikipedia articles. So any input from editors of this article would be appreciated over at Talk:West Ford. Thanks. Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:37, 31 May 2022 (UTC)