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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by WWGB (talk | contribs) at 04:28, 9 July 2022 (OneClickArchiver adding Death confirmed). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Archive 1Archive 2

Place

Where did Shinzo Abe shot by the suspect? Migfab008 (talk) 06:40, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Near "Yamato-Saidaiji Station in Nara, Nara Prefecture" --Super Goku V (talk) 06:46, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Time

What time did Shinzo Abe was shot by the suspect? Migfab008 (talk) 07:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

About 11:30 local time EvergreenFir (talk) 07:14, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved — speedily closing per an apparent WP:SNOW consensus that this discussion is premature (non-admin closure)  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 04:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Shooting of Shinzo Abe → Assassination attempt of Shinzo Abe – This is more than just a shooting, it is an assassination attempt. Seeing how critically wounded Abe is (as of now), I feel that this would be the proper title for this article like the Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:04, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Resubstituted {{subst:requested move}} so that closed discussion clearly shows proposed moves. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:35, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Can we change the title to Shinzo Abe murder attempt?

Shooting doesn't seem to emphasis on the broader picture imo 103.58.74.215 (talk) 05:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@103.58.74.215 - This has already been discussed, see #Move. CLYDE (TALK) @PING ME! 05:10, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
FFS, just WAIT! The guy is on life support ... WWGB (talk) 05:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Already been discussed. Attempted assassination would be appropriate if he survives… but based on how things sound, I think we’d just be changing the title again in short order. -05:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Fatally?

The lead says Abe was “fatally” shot but I can’t find any reputable sources confirming he died, and the article doesn’t cite any. That word should be removed, at least for now. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:AB44 (talk) 06:42, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

 Fixed. WWGB (talk) 06:43, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Sources pretty much say he's dead. It is just that in Japan you have to wait for the official coroner report to declare someone dead and it can take days between being in cardiac arrest and this happening.Fulmard (talk) 07:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
This is partially noted in the article. We still need to wait for an official confirmation of some sort. --Super Goku V (talk) 08:33, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 8 July 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: First part of discussion- carried out. Second part- WP:SNOW. (non-admin closure) Firestar464 (talk) 09:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Shooting of Shinzo Abe → Assassination of Shinzo Abe – Japanese media are now reporting that he has died from his injuries in hospital. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20220708/k10013707681000.html 2600:1700:7869:9DDF:64C7:A667:6D13:5945 (talk) 08:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done, no need for further discussion. WWGB (talk) 09:15, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Given there's two opposes to the move, this discussion is fine to continue. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
We use "Shooting" when there's a shooting and the person is still alive. We us "Murder" when there's a conviction. So neither of those two are appropriate. Go ahead and start a discussion over Assassination vs Killing if anyone wants it moved to that instead. -- KTC (talk) 09:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Assassination vs Murder

Assassination of Shinzo Abe → Murder of Shinzo Abe

Shooting of Shinzo Abe was temporarily moved to Assassination of Shinzo Abe. But there is no consensus for final title. Sharouser (talk) 09:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

shooting

I heard that he was shot 2 times. also can someone please edit the overlapping citation TheEditorTW ^^ (talk) 03:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I heard the same. It also appears as if the shotgun was homemade (https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1545249495398719488). Annoyingly, I can't go in and edit this as I lost the login info for my old account (yay). ActallyRetr0r0cket (talk) 04:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
More quality image: https://twitter.com/ayu3_BLUE/status/1545262768630087680 VScode fanboy (talk) 05:54, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Picture

I also found File:SANWA CITY SAIDAIJI.jpg and File:Sanwa City Saidaiji.jpg which also show where he was shot. (CC) Tbhotch™ 04:29, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Suspect's name

Personally, I have yet to hear anything about the suspect being charged. Hence why I have removed the name twice. Dunutubble and Iseult, you have both restore the person's name in edits. Just to make sure, was this an accidental restoration or an intentional one? If both were accidental, then I can remove the text again, but otherwise I will discuss it here. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

@Super Goku V: I've heard on NHK "suspectName has been arrested for attempted murder" several times; this is reflected verbatim in the text. The text does not say that he has been charged, which doesn't contradict your point. Iseult Δx parlez moi 04:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Contradictions are not the problem. I just think that naming the person without them being charged might run afoul of BLP policies. (If we are not, then everything is okay.) --Super Goku V (talk) 04:40, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
@Iseult: (Sorry, forgot to ping you back.) --Super Goku V (talk) 04:45, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
@Super Goku V: WP:BLPCRIME implies that it's fine barring heavy consideration; considering the wide coverage of the name, I don't think we're doing harm that isn't being done already; in any case, I think a good way to split the difference is to put in "on suspicion of" or note that he has not yet been charged. Iseult Δx parlez moi 04:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
@Iseult: Gotcha. You seem to understand the policy better than I do, so I will defer to you. Sorry for the trouble and thank you for your responses. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
@Super Goku V: no, no; the BLP concern is valid; thanks for pushing back. Iseult Δx parlez moi 04:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Age of Suspect

NHK updated their article saying the age of the perpetrator was 41 (formerly listed as 42), someone in edit notes noted that Japan counts age different than the US which is not true. Maybe it would be more appropriate to say "man in his 40s" until we have a solid number? Voulge (talk) 04:41, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

I think the editor is referring to East Asian age reckoning. But if non-Japanese sources say their age is 41, then that's probably correct. FunnyMath (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
East Asian age reckoning is only used in very rare cases in Japan, typically by the elderly. Very unlikely that NHK would use it, I'll make an edit when the situation settles. Voulge (talk) 04:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
True. In that case, whatever NHK says would be correct. FunnyMath (talk) 04:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Cardiac arrest terminology

"Abe is reported to be unconscious and has gone into cardiac arrest; this phrase is often used in Japan preceding a formal confirmation of death by a coroner." implies that "cardiac arrest" is often used preceding formal confirmation of death, but the linked source says that "cardiopulmonary arrest" is the phrase used preceding a formal confirmation of death by a coroner. Kansattica (talk) 06:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Actually, the term is 心肺停止. It can be translated either way into English as "cardiopulmonary arrest" or "cardiac arrest" (the former redirects to the latter), so it's not particularly a difference to split hairs over. In the Japanese media, 心肺停止 is the term used when death is likely but a coroner hasn't confirmed it yet, and the practice arose decades ago following complaints from the Japan Medical Association that the media was declaring individuals as dead before doctors were even able to assess them. Just as an example of how these norms work in the media, there was a case many years ago during a typhoon evacuation where an elderly woman fell to her death from a helicopter following a cable failure, and Japanese media reported it as 心肺停止. --benlisquareT•C•E 07:15, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
translation issue. 「心肺停止の状態だということです」 = he's said to have been a state of cardiopulmonary arrest EvergreenFir (talk) 07:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
  • NHK's English-language service keeps saying "no vital signs" - and they've said that in reference to at least 3 different time periods, hours apart. There must be written sources saying similar. Nfitz (talk) 08:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Well it's moot - it's been announced in Japan that he is dead. Nfitz (talk) 08:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Details of shooting

According to this, he was shot in the right side of his neck. Nythar (talk) 07:33, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Photos of scene and arrest

There’s photos of Abe on the ground and photos of the suspect being arrested and on the ground too and of the home made shot gun on the ground too. 47.157.236.115 (talk) 08:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Helicopter lift

Photos are also online of him being lifted out with a helicopter with a tarp near by could be a great addition. 47.157.236.115 (talk) 08:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Only if they are free use or we are able to fulfill the criteria for non-free usage, which I personally doubt at this time. --Super Goku V (talk) 08:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Typo

Shouldn't it be "assassination"? The man from Gianyar (talk) 09:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

it should be this is turning into a redirect/move mess... 🌈  4🧚‍♂am KING 👑  09:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
It's fixed now. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 09:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Death confirmed

BBC News link Angusgtw (talk) 09:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

https://mainichi.jp/articles/20220708/k00/00m/010/186000c Sharouser (talk) 09:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
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