Talk:Assassination of Shinzo Abe/Archive 1
This is an archive of past discussions about Assassination of Shinzo Abe. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Place
Where did Shinzo Abe shot by the suspect? Migfab008 (talk) 06:40, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Near "Yamato-Saidaiji Station in Nara, Nara Prefecture" --Super Goku V (talk) 06:46, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Time
What time did Shinzo Abe was shot by the suspect? Migfab008 (talk) 07:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- About 11:30 local time EvergreenFir (talk) 07:14, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Move
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved — speedily closing per an apparent WP:SNOW consensus that this discussion is premature (non-admin closure) Vanilla Wizard 💙 04:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Shooting of Shinzo Abe → Assassination attempt of Shinzo Abe – This is more than just a shooting, it is an assassination attempt. Seeing how critically wounded Abe is (as of now), I feel that this would be the proper title for this article like the Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:04, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Premature, imo Iseult Δx parlez moi 04:07, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Definitely premature --Pokelova (talk) 04:07, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose "Attempted" implies that the assasination failed, and we are not aware of Abe's outcome yet. Shooting is the most appropriate way to describe the circumstances currently. TheKaphox T 04:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait: Depending on what happens, "attempt" might have to be removed. We should wait until we have more information. ―Susmuffin Talk 04:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait I would support it if several reliable sources call it an attempted assassination. Let's wait until things are more clear. FunnyMath (talk) 04:10, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait Under cardiac arrest, so probably wait a couple hours until his condition is clearer 2600:1700:CFB0:A8D0:185A:3C9C:26B1:6E47 (talk) 04:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait per FunnyMath and IP user. HurricaneEdgar 04:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait - The current title was chosen specifically due to the uncertainty of the situation. We can move things once reliable sources are able to label this as an assassination. SounderBruce 04:14, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Comment seems like a WP:SNOW close for the next person who comes in? Iseult Δx parlez moi 04:14, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait. NBC News is saying that he is
gravely injured
and that NHK reported that Shinzo Abe was incardiopulmonary arrest
. He seems likely to die based off of this, but we can't actually move the page to a title that indicates he was killed until we have confirmation that he is actually dead. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 04:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC) - Wait - As I suspect (sadly) that a different title, will be required soon. GoodDay (talk) 04:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Wait - Per the author of the Washington Post alert on this, the current PM is planning a briefing soon, which will likely confirm whether or not Abe is alive. Schiffy (Speak to me|What I've done) 04:24, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Resubstituted {{subst:requested move}} so that closed discussion clearly shows proposed moves. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:35, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Can we change the title to Shinzo Abe murder attempt?
Shooting doesn't seem to emphasis on the broader picture imo 103.58.74.215 (talk) 05:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @103.58.74.215 - This has already been discussed, see #Move. CLYDE (TALK) @PING ME! 05:10, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- FFS, just WAIT! The guy is on life support ... WWGB (talk) 05:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Already been discussed. Attempted assassination would be appropriate if he survives… but based on how things sound, I think we’d just be changing the title again in short order. -05:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Fatally?
The lead says Abe was “fatally” shot but I can’t find any reputable sources confirming he died, and the article doesn’t cite any. That word should be removed, at least for now. 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:AB44 (talk) 06:42, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Fixed. WWGB (talk) 06:43, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sources pretty much say he's dead. It is just that in Japan you have to wait for the official coroner report to declare someone dead and it can take days between being in cardiac arrest and this happening.Fulmard (talk) 07:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- This is partially noted in the article. We still need to wait for an official confirmation of some sort. --Super Goku V (talk) 08:33, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sources pretty much say he's dead. It is just that in Japan you have to wait for the official coroner report to declare someone dead and it can take days between being in cardiac arrest and this happening.Fulmard (talk) 07:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Requested move 8 July 2022
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: First part of discussion- carried out. Second part- WP:SNOW. (non-admin closure) Firestar464 (talk) 09:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Shooting of Shinzo Abe → Assassination of Shinzo Abe – Japanese media are now reporting that he has died from his injuries in hospital. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20220708/k10013707681000.html 2600:1700:7869:9DDF:64C7:A667:6D13:5945 (talk) 08:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support - and it looks like someone has already been bold now that his death has been announced. Nfitz (talk) 09:00, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose I support Murder of Shinzo Abe. It looks like Murder of Jo Cox. Sharouser (talk) 09:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Move to Murder of Shinzo Abe. Also not sure why it's currently using Shinzō, when his main article is Shinzo Abe. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:13, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- same reason the page for JFK's murder is called Assassination of John F. Kennedy maybe? I feel like when targeted for political reasons assassination is the better word. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 09:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Assassination is an Americanism in my opinion, and so I don't agree we should be using it here. No sources that I've seen have used the term "assassinated", they used "killed" or "murdered". Joseph2302 (talk) 09:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- BBC's headline right now: Japan's ex-leader Shinzo Abe assassinated while giving speech and thats coming from a British organisation. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 09:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- I've not heard, User:Joseph2302, of assassination being an "Americanism". See for example the 2019 BBC article Merkel marks Hitler assassination attempt with anti-extremism appeal. Nfitz (talk) 09:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- BBC's headline right now: Japan's ex-leader Shinzo Abe assassinated while giving speech and thats coming from a British organisation. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 09:22, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Assassination is an Americanism in my opinion, and so I don't agree we should be using it here. No sources that I've seen have used the term "assassinated", they used "killed" or "murdered". Joseph2302 (talk) 09:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- In Japanese the Ō indicates that the sound is a longer ぞう (zou) sound instead of a solitary ぞ (zo). The bar is often dropped in romanized Japanese. Look into Hepburn Romaji for more info. 114.179.187.12 (talk) 09:24, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- same reason the page for JFK's murder is called Assassination of John F. Kennedy maybe? I feel like when targeted for political reasons assassination is the better word. 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 09:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Done, no need for further discussion. WWGB (talk) 09:15, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Given there's two opposes to the move, this discussion is fine to continue. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- We use "Shooting" when there's a shooting and the person is still alive. We us "Murder" when there's a conviction. So neither of those two are appropriate. Go ahead and start a discussion over Assassination vs Killing if anyone wants it moved to that instead. -- KTC (talk) 09:26, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support This fits the definition of assassination and in line with how the reliable media is reporting the event. Venkat TL (talk) 09:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Firestar464 this section should also be closed. Remove the RM tag. Venkat TL (talk) 10:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, I messed up. Done. --Firestar464 (talk) 10:04, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Firestar464 this section should also be closed. Remove the RM tag. Venkat TL (talk) 10:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Assassination vs Murder
Assassination of Shinzo Abe → Murder of Shinzo Abe
- Oppose and close - We only use "Murder" when there's a conviction. -- KTC (talk) 09:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Shooting of Shinzo Abe was temporarily moved to Assassination of Shinzo Abe. But there is no consensus for final title. Sharouser (talk) 09:28, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Stop They only pronounced him dead 85 minutes ago, and we are already on the 4th article name already. There's a lot of precedents for assassination such as Assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., Assassination of Julius Caesar, and Assassination of Jamal Khashoggi. Leave yet another debate on the title for much later. Nfitz (talk) 09:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose: an assassination is the murder of a prominent person. The former PM of Japan meets that prominence criterion by all accounts, notwithstanding his previous political accomplishments. Iseult Δx parlez moi 09:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose -- he was assassinated, which is a form of murder. The definition of "assassination" is "the murder of a prominent or important person" -- Shinzo Abe was quite obviously prominent and important. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 09:44, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Completely oppose as per above arguements Elshad (talk) 09:51, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose: Did you know assassinations are murders? I think the first sentence of the article assassination gives enough info. Nythar (talk) 09:51, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose per above. He was clearly a prominent person. Unspectrogram (talk) 09:53, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose This fits the definition of assassination and in line with how the reliable media is reporting the event. Venkat TL (talk) 09:54, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose, we use Assassination for prominent people such as Indira Gandhi, Benazir Bhutto, Martin Luther King Jr. etc. cagliost (talk) 09:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. This is an assassination. There has been no judicial finding of murder, or even a charge as yet. WWGB (talk) 09:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
shooting
I heard that he was shot 2 times. also can someone please edit the overlapping citation TheEditorTW ^^ (talk) 03:39, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- I heard the same. It also appears as if the shotgun was homemade (https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1545249495398719488). Annoyingly, I can't go in and edit this as I lost the login info for my old account (yay). ActallyRetr0r0cket (talk) 04:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- More quality image: https://twitter.com/ayu3_BLUE/status/1545262768630087680 VScode fanboy (talk) 05:54, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Picture
I also found File:SANWA CITY SAIDAIJI.jpg and File:Sanwa City Saidaiji.jpg which also show where he was shot. (CC) Tbhotch™ 04:29, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Suspect's name
Personally, I have yet to hear anything about the suspect being charged. Hence why I have removed the name twice. Dunutubble and Iseult, you have both restore the person's name in edits. Just to make sure, was this an accidental restoration or an intentional one? If both were accidental, then I can remove the text again, but otherwise I will discuss it here. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Super Goku V: I've heard on NHK "suspectName has been arrested for attempted murder" several times; this is reflected verbatim in the text. The text does not say that he has been charged, which doesn't contradict your point. Iseult Δx parlez moi 04:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Contradictions are not the problem. I just think that naming the person without them being charged might run afoul of BLP policies. (If we are not, then everything is okay.) --Super Goku V (talk) 04:40, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Iseult: (Sorry, forgot to ping you back.) --Super Goku V (talk) 04:45, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Super Goku V: WP:BLPCRIME implies that it's fine barring heavy consideration; considering the wide coverage of the name, I don't think we're doing harm that isn't being done already; in any case, I think a good way to split the difference is to put in "on suspicion of" or note that he has not yet been charged. Iseult Δx parlez moi 04:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Iseult: Gotcha. You seem to understand the policy better than I do, so I will defer to you. Sorry for the trouble and thank you for your responses. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Super Goku V: no, no; the BLP concern is valid; thanks for pushing back. Iseult Δx parlez moi 04:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Iseult: Gotcha. You seem to understand the policy better than I do, so I will defer to you. Sorry for the trouble and thank you for your responses. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Super Goku V: WP:BLPCRIME implies that it's fine barring heavy consideration; considering the wide coverage of the name, I don't think we're doing harm that isn't being done already; in any case, I think a good way to split the difference is to put in "on suspicion of" or note that he has not yet been charged. Iseult Δx parlez moi 04:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Age of Suspect
NHK updated their article saying the age of the perpetrator was 41 (formerly listed as 42), someone in edit notes noted that Japan counts age different than the US which is not true. Maybe it would be more appropriate to say "man in his 40s" until we have a solid number? Voulge (talk) 04:41, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- I think the editor is referring to East Asian age reckoning. But if non-Japanese sources say their age is 41, then that's probably correct. FunnyMath (talk) 04:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- East Asian age reckoning is only used in very rare cases in Japan, typically by the elderly. Very unlikely that NHK would use it, I'll make an edit when the situation settles. Voulge (talk) 04:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- True. In that case, whatever NHK says would be correct. FunnyMath (talk) 04:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- East Asian age reckoning is only used in very rare cases in Japan, typically by the elderly. Very unlikely that NHK would use it, I'll make an edit when the situation settles. Voulge (talk) 04:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Cardiac arrest terminology
"Abe is reported to be unconscious and has gone into cardiac arrest; this phrase is often used in Japan preceding a formal confirmation of death by a coroner." implies that "cardiac arrest" is often used preceding formal confirmation of death, but the linked source says that "cardiopulmonary arrest" is the phrase used preceding a formal confirmation of death by a coroner. Kansattica (talk) 06:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Actually, the term is 心肺停止. It can be translated either way into English as "cardiopulmonary arrest" or "cardiac arrest" (the former redirects to the latter), so it's not particularly a difference to split hairs over. In the Japanese media, 心肺停止 is the term used when death is likely but a coroner hasn't confirmed it yet, and the practice arose decades ago following complaints from the Japan Medical Association that the media was declaring individuals as dead before doctors were even able to assess them. Just as an example of how these norms work in the media, there was a case many years ago during a typhoon evacuation where an elderly woman fell to her death from a helicopter following a cable failure, and Japanese media reported it as 心肺停止. --benlisquareT•C•E 07:15, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- translation issue. 「心肺停止の状態だということです」 = he's said to have been a state of cardiopulmonary arrest EvergreenFir (talk) 07:18, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- NHK's English-language service keeps saying "no vital signs" - and they've said that in reference to at least 3 different time periods, hours apart. There must be written sources saying similar. Nfitz (talk) 08:34, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Well it's moot - it's been announced in Japan that he is dead. Nfitz (talk) 08:55, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Details of shooting
According to this, he was shot in the right side of his neck. Nythar (talk) 07:33, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Photos of scene and arrest
There’s photos of Abe on the ground and photos of the suspect being arrested and on the ground too and of the home made shot gun on the ground too. 47.157.236.115 (talk) 08:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Helicopter lift
Photos are also online of him being lifted out with a helicopter with a tarp near by could be a great addition. 47.157.236.115 (talk) 08:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Only if they are free use or we are able to fulfill the criteria for non-free usage, which I personally doubt at this time. --Super Goku V (talk) 08:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Typo
Shouldn't it be "assassination"? The man from Gianyar (talk) 09:02, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- it should be this is turning into a redirect/move mess... 🌈 4🧚♂am KING 👑 09:05, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- It's fixed now. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 09:09, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Death confirmed
BBC News link Angusgtw (talk) 09:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Just wanted to mention a small correction in the AP source for Anthony Blinken in Bali
The original said that Japanese and Indian foreign ministers spoke there too, but the link listed said Japanese and South Korean, so I fixed that. Tildin (talk) 13:03, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Thanks for the fix. Cheers, PenangLion (talk) 14:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2022
This edit request to Assassination of Shinzo Abe has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please link the appearance of Sanshirō Matsuyama. He has a Wikidata entry (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q11354707) that shows a Japanese Wikipedia article (ja:三四六), so he's probably notable. 49.198.51.54 (talk) 03:00, 9 July 2022 (UTC) 49.198.51.54 (talk) 03:00, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Withdrawing this request. When I looked at an auto-translated version of the Japanese article, I realised that it was likely to be a different individual with the same name. 49.198.51.54 (talk) 03:43, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Edit request
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
More condolences: President and PM of Israel --Arseny1992 (talk) 15:08, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the
{{edit protected}}
template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:57, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2022 (2)
This edit request to Assassination of Shinzo Abe has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
El Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele and the Salvadoran people expresses his condolences on Twitter and expressed strong relations with Abe 72.181.216.175 (talk) 03:24, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Not done. What is remarkable about Bukele's comment that warrants inclusion? WWGB (talk) 04:33, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Was he shot once or twice?
I think it’s something we should keep an eye on. Video circulating on social media seems to show him unaffected by the first discharge and pausing and turning towards the attacker, then falling immediately after the second shot. I know he had multiple wounds, but if this really was a “shotgun” type weapon (reports are unclear), it may have fired multiple projectiles with each discharge. Not saying there is enough to change the description now, but the details of the incident may become more precise if the police make further statements. SS451 (talk) 04:31, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- NPR said earlier the first shot missed. The second one struck him. EvergreenFir (talk) 04:43, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Why has stuff about JFK's assassination been added?
Great Mercian (talk) 11:23, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Great Mercian are you referring to the WP:SEEALSO section? I did not add it, but I believe, those links are added as they are similar cases of killing of heads of state. Venkat TL (talk) 11:34, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @JordanBay: ~~ lol1VNIO🎌 (talk • contribs) 11:56, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Great Mercian@Lol1VNIO probably it was about this Special:Diff/1097222874. already removed. Venkat TL (talk) 12:27, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Infobox criminal
@Funcrunch @Great Mercian I believe it is acceptable to use this infobox in this article. I am not sure why you would object. Please discuss and get consensus here. Venkat TL (talk) 18:34, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- I thought that an infobox should be used for a notable subject in their own article. But I don't feel strongly about it. Funcrunch (talk) 18:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Funcrunch the suspect has already gained international notoriety. I think it helps the reader, and dont see any problem with it. I have seen articles about US shooting incidents too having this infobox. Venkat TL (talk) 18:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note that the "criminal" part of the infobox name isn't visible unless one goes to the edit interface hence is not a violation of WP:NPOV.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 20:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Infobox has been added and no one is objecting for it's addition anymore. Venkat TL (talk) 07:14, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
- Note that the "criminal" part of the infobox name isn't visible unless one goes to the edit interface hence is not a violation of WP:NPOV.Hariboneagle927 (talk) 20:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Funcrunch the suspect has already gained international notoriety. I think it helps the reader, and dont see any problem with it. I have seen articles about US shooting incidents too having this infobox. Venkat TL (talk) 18:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Improvised shotgun?
Some editors are saying it was an improvised shotgun, should we update the article or is this non-credible? (https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1545249495398719488) Realgravity (talk) 05:16, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- We need a much better source than a tweet by some rando speculating about a photo. I think that reliable sources are in the midst of reporting on this. Wait. Cullen328 (talk) 05:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Much appreciated, thanks. Realgravity (talk) 05:30, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- More links: https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/pluralphoto/20220708-OYT1I50091/, https://twitter.com/ayu3_BLUE/status/1545262768630087680, https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1545263293123727365. Not as a source, but as a piece of understanding. VScode fanboy (talk) 05:58, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Here is CNN article that shows a much clearer image of the firearm used. The visible electrical tape, wooden board, and pipe implies that this is an improvised, or at the very least very modified, firearm. https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/shinzo-abe-japan-pm-collapses-nara-07-08-22-intl-hnk/h_21d32edb151f22cca92ab6a881a05e95:Thecloudking 6:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Japanese sources ([1]) are calling it 「手製」, meaning "homemade". EvergreenFir (talk) 06:37, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Handgun or shotgun ?
According to this, The Nara Prefectural Police revealed that it was not a shotgun but a handgun that was used to kill Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. BlackShadowG (talk) 10:20, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @BlackShadowG It is being reported as a "home made gun" that "resembled a shot gun". Venkat TL (talk) 10:40, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @BlackShadowG: I was under the impression that it was a shotgun, but I did find sources for the pistol report. I guess that means we will need to remove the shotgun portion and add a note. Thank you for mentioning this. --Super Goku V (talk) 10:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Done Finally got the footnotes to work with references and in multiple locations. --Super Goku V (talk) 11:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
By the look of it it's essentially two electrically- detonated pipe bombs, except that one end is left open and plugged with some sort of a projectile mass, likely nuts or cut nails or some such. You can see the battery block and wires below. It has more in common with a matchlock and a suicide vest than with any firearm. --Sefus2331 (talk) 11:27, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Notwithstanding the possibility that it was electrically fired, it clearly is an improvised firearm, and visually it does resemble a sawn-off shotgun more than anything else. I think we should be wary of using the term "pistol," as that implies something that it clearly isn't. It also can't be described as being made of "pipe bombs," because it was clearly designed to fire projectiles, not explode. Nick Cooper (talk) 12:47, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Just a note that all sources say "homemade" or 「手製(てせい)」, not "improvised". EvergreenFir (talk) 15:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- It functionally means the same thing, but "improvised" is less potentially confusing. We don't yet know where the assailant actually made the weapon. Nick Cooper (talk) 18:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Just a note that all sources say "homemade" or 「手製(てせい)」, not "improvised". EvergreenFir (talk) 15:59, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Edit request
Proposal for the head: he is the 5th member of the Japanese Diet murdered, after Inejiro Asanuma, Hyōsuke Niwa, Shinjiro Yamamura and Kouki Ishii. (Taken from the Japanese wiki).
- Do you mind putting your signature? Great Mercian (talk) 18:49, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Should we alphabetize the reactions segment?
all the countries look so disjointed Great Mercian (talk) 18:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- sure EvergreenFir (talk) 18:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Please see the consensus to remove most reactions from this section in the thread, #World reactions to Abe's assassination Venkat TL (talk) 19:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
When are we gonna get a response from Spain?
Great Mercian (talk) 18:50, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- Please see the consensus to remove most reactions from this section in the thread, #World reactions to Abe's assassination Venkat TL (talk) 19:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
Why Ireland is added to the reactions but geographically relevant nations are not added?
Doesnt it make more sense that geographically relevant nations such as Taiwan, Malaysia, and Indonesia are added instead of Ireland. If the argument is that they are not relevant, Shouldnt we add nations that the very least are a member of the G20? CrystallizedSyrup (talk) 01:40, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @CrystallizedSyrup, relevance is subjective. If you judge names based on perceived importance (that will vary from person to person) and include their condolence regardless of what the content of that reaction is. In my opinion this is not a good criteria of pruning and will open floodgates of disputes. Currently all the countries who sent usual platitudes, are covered in the opening statement that says "numerous countries sent condolences", If the countries announced national mourning, that is included, if the condolence includes remarkable work, they have been included. Basically is the comment is remarkable for the reader, they have been included. If any user believes a country with remarkable statement and action has been left out, they are free to start a new discussion thread below and make consensus to get that condolence added. As Zaathras noted above, "200 lines of "Leader X of Country Y expresses condolences does not seem very encyclopedic", so we should avoid such situation. Venkat TL (talk) 09:21, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Proposal to add South Korea's reaction
- Yoon Suk-yeol, President of South Korea, offered his condolences to Abe's wife, Akie Abe.[1] He sent his "condolences to the bereaved families and Japanese people" who have "lost the longest-serving prime minister and respected politician in Japan's constitutional history." He condemned the shooting as "an unforgivable act of crime". [2] The People Power Party and the Democratic Party also gave statements, condemning the act as "terrorism".[1]
References
- ^ a b "Yoon delivers condolence over Abe's shooting death". koreatimes. 2022-07-08. Retrieved 2022-07-09.
- ^ Reuters (2022-07-08). "South Korea president Yoon sends condolences after shooting death of ex-Japanese premier Abe". Reuters. Retrieved 2022-07-08.
{{cite news}}
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has generic name (help)
South Korea is a key neighbor to Japan, and also it seems pretty unique that he sent his condolences to Abe's wife. It also seems reactions of political parties aren't dealth in the article so seems like it would be interesting to add Takipoint123 (talk) 10:20, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Regarding content from Wikipedias of other languages
This is a short question: there are far more content related to this incident on the article in Chinese Wikipedia and Japanese Wikipedia. Should we adopt some portions that are only available in the Wikipedia pages of these two languages and translate them for this article? PenangLion (talk) 13:37, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @PenangLion Nothing stops you, as long as the content is according to the En Wikipedia policies, you can add. Make sure to also include the reference. Venkat TL (talk) 14:04, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Agree Noted. PenangLion (talk) 14:05, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Suspect
Yamagami has confessed, so why is he still being labelled as a suspect? Great Mercian (talk) 10:13, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Great Mercian valid point. I have changed suspect to Perpetrator, does this resolve your concern? Venkat TL (talk) 10:17, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yes Great Mercian (talk) 11:21, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Should we be calling him the perpetrator without a conviction? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:28, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Venkat TL and Great Mercian We can't call him perpetrator until he is proved guilty by law. Mehmood.Husain (talk) 16:41, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Mehmood.Husain @Jim Michael 2 @Great Mercian I understand the concern. I see that someone has already changed it back to Suspect. I have changed my mind and now agree that Suspect is better. I am not disputing the revert. Thanks Venkat TL (talk) 16:44, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Venkat TL and Great Mercian We can't call him perpetrator until he is proved guilty by law. Mehmood.Husain (talk) 16:41, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Should we be calling him the perpetrator without a conviction? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:28, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yes Great Mercian (talk) 11:21, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Proposal to add Brazilian leader's reaction
- Jair Bolsonaro, President of Brazil, expressed "outrage and sadness" over the assassination and ordered three days of national mourning in Brazil.[1]
References
- ^ "Brazil's Bolsonaro 'outraged' by Japan ex-PM Abe's killing, orders three-day mourning". Reuters. 8 July 2022. Archived from the original on 9 July 2022. Retrieved 9 July 2022.
Please consider adding Brazilian president's reaction too (https://www.correiobraziliense.com.br/politica/2022/07/5020939-em-sp-bolsonaro-chora-ao-homenagear-shinzo-abe-e-o-risco-dos-bons.html) (In portuguese) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Novorossiya (talk • contribs) 17:18, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support involves action. Already added by @JyuHachiJyu: here Special:Diff/1097271229. --Venkat TL (talk) 18:43, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support, ibid above. Should fulfill the criteria imposed by talk page consensus on boilerplate reactions. InvadingInvader (talk) 18:51, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose and reverted. No relevance or significant association with Japan. Zaathras (talk) 18:51, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- I would contest that. We're putting in India and Bangladesh's national day declarations but not Brazil's? Bangladesh isn't that affiliated with Japan. InvadingInvader (talk) 19:11, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Brazil has literally the biggest community of Japanese people and their descendents outside of Japan. Brazil–Japan relationships have some really relevant bonds. 2804:14D:5C32:614F:20C2:2BD9:C02E:17B9 (talk) 19:13, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Support fulfills the "more than just sad" criteria by calling for three days of national mourning. Also significant both as one of the world's largest nations and as the country with the largest Japanese population outside of Japan. I ask that the editor who reverted revert their revert. Vanilla Wizard 💙 22:46, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Proposal to add the Chinese internet's reaction
I'm thinking of reinstating the unofficial reactions from Chinese media, which is very mixed. The section got removed here by Heune, saying there's no correlation with adding public opinions. I think there's enough coverage on this, according to Google News, to have due weight, worthy of inclusion.[1][2][3][4][5]
"
Unofficial reactions were mixed, as several Chinese netizens took to criticize Abe on social media, including some describing his injuries as "a comfort to the souls of people who had died" in the Second Sino-Japanese War.[6]"
References
- ^ https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/08/china-internet-abe-assassination-00044788
- ^ https://qz.com/2186314/shares-of-chinese-bulletproof-vest-makers-surged-on-abes-shooting/
- ^ https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/japan-abe-reaction-07082022094918.html
- ^ https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3184679/nationalists-attack-chinese-journalist-over-emotional-shinzo
- ^ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-08/china-says-it-hopes-abe-is-out-of-danger-and-recovers-soon#xj4y7vzkg
- ^ "'A loss for the world': leaders unite in condemning Shinzo Abe assassination". the Guardian. 2022-07-08. Archived from the original on 8 July 2022. Retrieved 2022-07-08.
~~ lol1VNIO🎌 (talk • contribs) 11:05, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- lol1VNIO I find this confusing as a reader, How is Abe related to that war? and why should Wikipedia promote the trolls? Venkat TL (talk) 11:20, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- @Venkat TL: I suppose it's because he visited the Yasukuni Shrine on several occasions. ~~ lol1VNIO🎌 (talk • contribs) 11:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Disagree, I don't see it any different from users on Twitter talking shit about X leader. I feel like this was just reported on by the media outlets because people feel mystified about China or for political reasons. RisingTzar (talk) 13:23, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- On second thought, the fact that it hasn't been censored might mean that the Chinese government sort of agrees with it? RisingTzar (talk) 13:25, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- It seems that Chinese leadership is trying to calm the anti-Abe sentiment instead of encourage it[1] Ratata6789 (talk) 01:33, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
- On second thought, the fact that it hasn't been censored might mean that the Chinese government sort of agrees with it? RisingTzar (talk) 13:25, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Proposal to add Queen Elizabeth II's reaction
- In a message of condolence, Queen Elizabeth II said that she and her family were "deeply saddened" by the news, and said she had "fond memories" of meeting Abe and his wife in 2016.[2]
References
- ^ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-08/china-says-it-hopes-abe-is-out-of-danger-and-recovers-soon
- ^ Elizabeth R (July 8, 2022). "A message of condolence from The Queen following the death of former Prime Minister Abe of Japan". royal.uk. Archived from the original on 8 July 2022. Retrieved July 8, 2022.
What about the message from Her Majesty The Queen to the Emperor of Japan ? https://twitter.com/royalfamily/status/1545420993417490434 -What can I do for someone?- (talk) 10:36, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose : This is usual platitude, not seeing anything remarkable for the reader. Boilerplate condolences such as these are already covered in the boilerplate intro line "... representatives of numerous countries, including present and former world leaders, expressed their condolences." Venkat TL (talk) 10:46, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
- Oppose. Routine condolence, nothing of significance. WWGB (talk) 03:32, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 13 July 2022
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Janet Yellen's title is "Secretary of the Treasury"; please add a "the" at the spot where she's called "Secretary of Treasury" 49.198.51.54 (talk) 02:12, 13 July 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2022
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Typo in Assassination of Shinzo Abe#International:
Jacinda Ardern, prime minister of New Zealand, recognized Abe as a "a statesman, someone who helped usher through complex negotiations like the CPTPP".
It would make sense to remove an extra "a". 2600:1700:B8F0:EE0:F9CE:3F4D:EC69:519A (talk) 21:46, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
- Done ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 22:03, 10 July 2022 (UTC)