Talk:Peter Lorre/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

I've removed the external link to http://www.peterlorrebook.com -- it's not released yet, so I don't see how it can be used as a source for information in the article. I removed the geocities links as they aren't appropriate -- wikipedia isn't for advertising every temporary fan page. The two remaining ext links are, IMO, debatable: I suppose one fan page is ok, and the sound archive adds something interesting.

For the sake of keeping any potentially useful information, here is a formatted reference to the book. Should anyone purchase it and use it to improve this article, you can use this method to cite it (see edit page for how to do this):

==References==
*{{cite book|author=Stephen D. Youngkin|title=The Lost One: A Life of Peter Lorre|publisher=University Press of Kentucky|year=2005|id=ISBN 0-8131-2360-7}}

and the image: The Lost One Motor 19:47, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Austrian or Hungarian?

I don't think that Peter Lorre was a "Hungarian actor" but an US-american-austrian actor. Here is page where that topic is discussed:

http://www.germanhollywood.com/casabl2.html

And in the german part of the wikipedia Lorre is called a "US-amerikanisch-österreichischer".

But my english is not so good, maybe someone else should edit the article.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.180.100.253 (talk) 23:38, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Lorre was born in what is now Slovakia; it was then in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Andrew Szanton, 4/06—Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew Szanton (talk • contribs) 18:19, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Lorre was born in Austro-Hungary. His native language was Hungarian, though the place where he was born is now in Slovakia. Ordinary Person 08:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The best way to characterize him would be Jewish-Hungarian since his matriculated first name, László, is clearly Hungarian.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.182.209.35 (talk) 08:44, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

In theory (and simplifying a bit), Austria-Hungary after 1867 was two independent states which happened to have the same monarch, like England and Scotland between 1603 and 1707. Slovakia was part of the Kingdom of Hungary (I don't have maps good enough to tell if the new borders deviate from the old). Would a native of Greater Hungary react to being called "Austrian" the same way some Scots do when called "English"? —Tamfang 01:40, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Being a Hungarian myself, I would react the same way. :-) - Neon Knights—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.21.245 (talk) 17:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Lorre wasn't Hungarian. The name given to him was Ladislav and points to Slovakia. But back then Slovaks weren't allowed to use their language, so the first name was changed to László. This doen't make him a Hungarian, of course. Lorre never spoke Hungarian. In fact his family soon moved to Vienna where he was brought up, went to school and started his career. Then look at his last name: Löwenstein. Which clearly isn't Hungarian or Slovak. If you listen to his voice in Fritz Lang's M you will clearly notice his Viennese accent (if you are sensitive towards such things). Let's not forget: Until emigrating to the US Lorre held Austrian citizenship. That's why he should be labeled as an Austrian-American actor. --Catgut 06:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

He WAS a Hungarian Jew. He was never called Ladislav, even his father had a Hungarian name: Alajos. His family name does no justice: in Hungary we have any types of family names. My friend has a Slovak family name and that doens't make him Slovak. But any doubts? Read Youngkin's definitve book (The Lost One: A Life of Peter Lorre). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.3.242 (talk) 15:18, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

But he was an AUSTRIAN citizen. That makes him Austrian. And judging by your comment, you are Hungarian, which leads me to suspect that this is a matter more of national pride for you than of citable fact. Monkeyzpop 16:07, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Citizenship is one thing, origin is another. Following your logic Arnold Schwarzenegger is just an American actor? Of course not. And sure I have national pride, who doesn't? But I am also staying with the facts and what Peter considered. He left his homeland and became an Austrian citizen, and the world got to know him as an Austrian actor. I have nothing against this. But deleting ALL the facts on this site regarding Peter's Hungarian origins is not fair to say the least. Plus I sent an email to Youngkin to make justice in this matter himself.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.3.242 (talk) 17:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Hungarian or not? There you go:

JUST GOT THIS EMAIL FROM PETERLORREBBOOK.COM

Dear ...,

Thank you for writing! I have forwarded your eMail note to Stephen Youngkin, who always enjoys hearing from fans of Peter Lorre's.

But to answer your question -- Yes, Peter Lorre was Hungarian.

He was born in Roszahegy, "a small primarily Slovak town of 12,490 inhavitants nestled against the High Tatra Mountains on Hungary's northern border. Rising sharply out of a high plateau in the central Carpathians, they kept close company with the Transylvania Alps." (Page 6, "The Lost One: A Life of Peter Lorre", by Stephen D. Youngkin)

Countries' borders changed over the years, but in the many interviews Peter gave during his lifetime, he always identified himself as Hungarian, born in the Carpathian Mountains.

You can read an excerpt from "The Lost One" at the publisher's website:

http://www.kentuckypress.com/expertyoungkin.cfm

And also here, at the English-language version of Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0813123607/qid=1122176654/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-3875388-8012158?v=glance&s=books

Thank you again for your eMail note.

Best wishes, Webmaster, "The Lost One" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.3.242 (talk) 09:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Even before seeing this note, I felt that the changes you just made, identifying Lorre as Hungarian-Austrian-American and supplying the alternative family and town names, was just right. The difficulty you've had, I believe, stemmed from an apparent insistence that only one of the factors in Lorre's heritage could be used (the one you chose). By providing this evidence of the multiplicity of national and geographical information pertinent to Lorre's case, you have, as far as I'm concerned, eliminated the problem. I suggest that we let this stand as of the edit revision 169829734 by 80.99.3.242 (talk. Concensus? Monkeyzpop 11:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Thank you. I hoped this solution will satisfy everybody. P.S.: I suggest to take a look at the first link I posted above. Check the pdf file. In the end of it you'll find some hillarious pictures with Peter, Bogie and Lauren Bacall. Great book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.3.242 (talk) 11:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Using Lowenstein as evidence that he is not Hungarian, like many do, on this board is ridiculous. Many Slavic and Hungarian Jews changed their names to German surnames in that era, just look at Emeric Pressburger's family! Emmerich Pressburger is a more German name than Laszlo Lownestein', though in reality Pressburger was Imre Joszef Emmeric Pressburger, a descendant of Szekler Magyars, whose family changed their name to sound more aristocratic (e.g. Austrian).

Also, Peter Lorre stated in an interview that he was Hungarian. I'll look for it and get back here with it. 86.146.195.35 (talk) 19:10, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I recently removed the "Hungarian" categories from this article as I couldn't find any proof for this. User User:Skyerise then reverted this stating "subject publicly identified as Hungarian, that's why...". Looking at the article again - and at this discussion - I cannot find any proof for this (other than hear-say). Just going by the first name "Lazlo" isn't helpful, as this may be fairly arbitrary at the time (depending on the officials who registered it etc. - and what about the surname?). The only thing that seems to be evidence in the discussion above is the link provided to the book Stephen D. Youngkin: "The Lost One: A Life of Peter Lorre." However, no quote or actual reference is given, and browsing through what's available online I can only find reference stating that the ability of Lorre's father to "write to both German and Magyar pushed him a stock higher." On the other hand, a verifiable source is quoted in the article (a German biography of Lorre - see footnote 1) that states: 'that Lorre's family were outsiders in Rózsahegy as they, who had only arrived there very recently, were German-speaking Jews in a majority Slovak town.' Source: Friedemann Beyer: Peter Lorre. Seine Filme - sein Leben, München 1988, p.8 ("Sie waren Juden, und sie sprachen deutsch in einer Gegend, in der überwiegend Slowaken lebten.") - Also, they not only moved there shortly before Lorre's birth, they also moved away, to Vienna, fairly soon afterwards. - Maybe I'm missing something. On balance, though, I cannot find evidence here that he was "Hungarian" in any kind of meaningful way. Albrecht Conz (talk) 07:27, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

You seem to be confusing nationality with ethnicity. We describe people by their nationality in the lead sentence, so we are not making a statement about ethnicity here. It doesn't matter where his parents came from or what ethnicity they were: Lorre was born in the Kingdom of Hungary and this automatically makes him a Hungarian national, which is how we describe his nationality. Perhaps he also had additional citizenships based on his parent's citizenships, but we'd need sources for this. And WP:OPENPARA does suggest that we use the nationality held at the time the subject became notable, but again, we'd need sources to show that Lorre was formally granted such citizenship. Had he formally become an Austrian or German citizen before M was filmed? If you've got sources then by all means we can use that nationality in the lead sentence. But without sources, all we know was that he was born a subject of the Kingdom of Hungary and by our standards, should be described as Hungarian. The fact that you also go on about his parents being German-speaking Jewish outsiders suggest to me that you object to describing Lorre as being of Hungarian ethnicity, but that's not what we are asserting in the lead sentence, we are describing his citizenship-based nationality. The Hungarian categories you removed also refer to nationality, not ethnicity. Because he was born in Hungary, they would still be included even though he later formally changed citizenship, along with the equivalents for his supported second citizenship. He didn't become an American citizen until after he'd attained notability, so for the purposes of the lead sentence, we still describe him as Hungarian. Hope this helps you better understand our standard lead sentence construction and semantics. Skyerise (talk) 11:21, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Morocco Mole

I think perhaps the name of this character might have been influenced by the Peter Lorre role in Casablanca. (Casablanca is in Morocco.) Possibly this is not significant enough to go in a Wikipedia article. Ordinary Person 00:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Beavis

I don't notice any similarity between PL and Beavis, apart from nasality (which they both share with, say, Bob Dylan); has Mike Judge said there is a connexion? —Tamfang 01:43, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Small alter

There's a tendency to put Family Guy references into articles when it's not really useful or accurate and I'm hoping to counteract that.I suppose there might be some respects Stewie Griffin has similarities to Peter Lorre's characters, but if we go down that path so do an endless number of creepy characters. Also I altered the thing on the Genie as his character is mostly not like a Lorre character at all, but there was the one scene about "no wishing to bring back the dead" where he did a Lorre impression.--T. Anthony 15:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

"quip at the funeral"?

The article makes reference to "his quip at the funeral of Bela Lugosi (see below)..." No further reference is made to Lugosi or any funeral. To what "quip" is this referring? - Brian Kendig 13:02, 27 October 2006 (UTC) Bela Lugosi was buried in his costume from his dracula chacter. While Vincent price and Pete Lorre were viewing Bela, Peter said should we stake him. Just in case? -(karen carter) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.78.67.232 (talk) 16:56, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Mystery in the Air

I can hardly believe this, but the article makes no mention of Mr. Lorre's own radio show, Mystery in the Air sponsored by Camel Cigarettes. Gotta be one of the best old-timey radio shows ever. Plus, his many roles as a guest star on other radio programs like Suspense. --Nerd42 (talk) 17:29, 4 November 2006 (UTC) http://www.old-time.com/otrlogs2/mia.log.txt

Spike Jones and the City Slickers:"My Old Flame"

One of the best parodies of the Peter Lorre persona was this 40's hit for the USA comedy band Spike Jones and the City Slickers. Paul Frees, (Best remembered as the voice of Boris in "Rocky and Bulwinkle") does Peter Lorre reciting the lyrics of the Arthur Johnson/Sam Coslow 1934 standard "My Old Flame" with macarbe asides ie "My Old Flame/ I can't even think of her name/(I'll have to look at my collection of shrunken heads)." This hit single pops up on many "Best of" collections of Spike Jones and the City Slickers. I have a CD of a December 10, 1948 radio show "The Spike Jones Show" where Lorre is a guest and he obliges by reciting this song. Line notes by show writer Eddie Brandt tells how Lorre had to practice in front of a mirror pre-show to ham up his usual subtle sinister style into the cringing, whinning maniac that the song demanded. 203.59.171.82 12:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)Matthew Bateman-Graham

Tribute in Grim Fandango

Maybe this should be pust in the "Trivia", or in the "Emulating..." paragraph, but there is also a tribute to Lorre in the game Grim Fandango. The character Chowchilla Charlie resembles him in voice and appearance very much (well, as much as skeletons resemble people, because most of the characters are skeletons). He appears in a part of the game that is inspired particularly by Casablanca and The Maltese Falcon, and I think it's worth mentioning.

Here's a clip with him from the game - http://youtube.com/watch?v=2kph8NEw-Z8 --89.190.200.137 13:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Throwing in a Quick 2 cents

Sorry to comment when I'm not taking the time at the moment to provide any improvement... but starting out an article on Peter Lorre with trivia on a minor television appearance more of interest to James Bond than Peter Lorre fans is rather unbalanced. He is certainly not known these days for playing Le Chiffre since this footage is not available for viewing anywhere except in a university archive. This detail should be way down in the article. Also, although I'm interested in emulators of Lorre (having been the one to add the Booberry reference to IMDB), it's sad that this is the largest single section of this article. The original performances that inspired so many immitators should take precedence.

Well, I hope to spend some time with my Lorre reference library and make some additions in the future (with a personal log-in, of course). I hope that if I move Le Chiffre to a position that gives it just the amount of prominence it deserves I won't be seen as a "vandal" by the Wikipolice.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.152.101.44 (talk) 01:07, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Well, what is it? Lore-ey? Lorruh? Lore-uh? EamonnPKeane (talk) 22:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

References in popular culture section is needed

The band World/Inferno Friendship Society has a song titled Peter Lorre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.221.92.11 (talk) 23:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

political action

apparently Lorre was active in the U.S. against the House Committee on Un-American activities. Can this be worked into the article? Kingturtle (talk) 14:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Lorre images used in Nazi propaganda

Interesting that the same powerful portrayal that attracted Alfred Hitchcock to Lorre, was also later used in Nazi propaganda.

The Eternal Jew, a 1940 Nazi film, used Lorre's image from the 1931 German drama M as a clip:

The Jew Lorre in the role of a child murderer. Not the murderer but the victim is guilty, according to this film, which presents the criminal sympathetically, to gloss over and excuse the crime. http://www.holocaust-history.org/der-ewige-jude/stills.shtml

Stills and Narration from 'Der ewige Jude' (The Eternal Jew)] Lent (talk) 00:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Attempted deletion of "spam" links

An editor is attempting to remove an external link and a reference from the article as being "spam" links, but as far as I can tell, these are legitimate and not spam. The reference in questions is to the book The Lost One: A Life of Peter Lorre, which is published by a university press, was reviewed by the Washington Post, and is available on Amazon. These indicators make a prima facie case for the legitimacy of the source. The website in question is run by the author of the book, and is not a fansite.

Given this, the editor needs to make an argument here for the removal of these links, and I've asked him or her to do so. Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 04:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Under the guidelines, we should be referencing the book, not linking to the site that sells it. If there's no third-party link to the contents of the book (such as Google Books) the URL can be left out. I think there's some decent content on the site (which is why I didn't remove it earlier) but it certainly could be construed as spam. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 06:15, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. The link is topical, relevant and informational. Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 06:18, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Also, slightly off topic, please note that the only edits made by the editor in question have been to remove these links. That certainly raises some interesting questions. Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 06:20, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

What about a compromise: remove the link to the book's page in the reference list, but keep the link to the website overall in the ELs, for its informational value (the website of an author who's written two published books on the subject). Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 06:22, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I've also removed the Amazon links on the other two books on the list. (Those interested can still get to their favorite online bookseller through ISBN preferences). Ed Fitzgerald _{t / c} 06:25, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to me. Let's see if anyone else has input. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 06:33, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Spam sites are not allowed on Wikipedia for a very good reason. Since the site in question here exists solely to sell a book, it most definitely qualifies as spam. Renaming a link to that site something like "More Photos" does nothing to change the fact that anyone clicking on the link will be brought to the spam site.Jackmontrose (talk) 03:43, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

While the site does primarily exist to sell a book, it also contains a significant number of photographs and meaningful captions that otherwise couldn't be included on Wikipedia. The content goes beyond advertising (though not far beyond, to be sure). At any rate, it's not quite as clear-cut as you make it out to be. And the editor who wants to keep it is not, as far as I know, affiliated with the site.

This appears to be a serious issue for you; I notice you've done nothing on Wikipedia for the past 2 1/2 years except try to get this one link removed. Is there a reason for that that goes beyond our external links guidelines? If not, keep in mind that occasional exceptions can be made to guidelines. Perhaps this could be one of those? Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 04:14, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I’ve just been apprised of the kerfuffle raised over the Wikipedia link to peterlorrebook.com. Initially, the primary purpose of this site was to get word out about my biography of Peter Lorre (The Lost One: A Life of Peter Lorre). But it also had a secondary objective, that of featuring rare, unpublished photos that didn’t make the book, along with more information than a caption would allow. That was three years ago. Once sales moderated, my idea was to develop peterlorrebook.com into a general Peter Lorre website. In addition to expanding the photo library (an ongoing process), we’ve added sections on poster artwork, the availability of films on DVD and VHS, FAQ, and the World/Inferno Friendship Society's multi-media production "Addicted to Bad Ideas: Peter Lorre in the 20th Century," etc. What’s more, we plan new pages on Lorre’s television work and Lorre in advertising, from German cookies to wine and tobacco. Ads for the book, which let readers know where they can learn more about the actor, run alongside those for various other movie and radio sellers and are peripheral -- in both size and content -- to the scope of what is now primarily an informational site. StephenYoungkin (talk) 19:45, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Where?

I noticed in the "Imitating Lorre" section that someone stated that the “Peter Lorre-like mad scientist” from Looney Tunes made a cameo appearance in Who Framed Roger Rabbit. I know the character makes a cameo appearance in Looney Tunes: Back in Action, but when and where in Who Framed Roger Rabbit does the character make a appearance in?-Endor chicken—Preceding undated comment added at 02:07, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Austro-Hungarian

This probably needs more work. What is supposed to be listed in the lead is a person's citizenship, not their nationality or ethnic background. On top of that, it is supposed to reflect their citizenship when they became famous if they'd changed their citizenship before that.

Next, neither Austria nor Hungary existed as independent states at the time of Lorre's birth. What would be pertinent is what country he was considered a citizen of after Austria-Hungary broke up. Whether is name is of Hungarian origin is of no import to what should be said in the lead, only his citizenship. The categories will also need to be updated to reflect citizenship rather than any other consideration.

Most likely, since he and his family were living in Vienna, they became Austrian citizens. He would still have been an Austrian citizen when he became when a became famous for his role in M. I don't have a problem with using his Austro-Hungarian birth citizenship in the lead, but the categorization should be based on his presumably Austrian citizenship. Yworo (talk) 13:26, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Your conception of the situation in Austria-Hungary is flawed. Lorre was (apparently) born a citizen of the Kingdom of Hungary. Under the dual monarchy, Austria and Hungary were held in personal union by the Hapsburg monarch. From 1867 the Kingdom of Hungary had its own citizenship law. He was a national of the Kingdom of Hungary. Whether he lost his Hungarian citizenship or acquired Austrian Citizenship before the close of WWI is interesting, but not decisive. His citizenship would have thereafter been determined by the Treaty of Trianon. Under Trianon, he would have lost any retained Hungarian citizenship by operation of law by residing in the Republic of Austria for more than a year (there probably was a opt out provision, however, that he would have had to invoke formally). He then became a German Citizen with the Anschluss in 1938, unless he was deprived of that citizenship by operation of the Nuremberg Laws due to his ethnicity, in which case, he may have become stateless. Matters get more complicated by his American Naturalization in 1941. Whether he lost his German citizenship (if any) by naturalization in the US would have been a function of the nationality law of 1914 in effect at the time. I believe he would have. However, he may have had or been eligible to have his Austrian Citizen restored after the legal reversal of the Anschluss citizenship merger after WWII. And so on.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Criticality (talk • contribs) 22:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)