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Requested move 26 August 2022

– Per MOS:JOBTITLES and MOS:DOCTCAPS (and WP:NCCAPS more generally), and to be WP:CONSISTENT with around 99% of occupational article titles. This is not a proper name, it's an occupational descriptive phrase. N-grams show that the lower-case form dominates in source material [1] . This is most often capitalized in marketing materials for training programs, in governmentese documents, on business cards, and in other situations in which over-capitalization runs rampant. There are a number of other occupational articles like this that need down-casing, but experience tends to show these topics should be taken in clumps not a huge mass-move).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  10:38, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. There is a related discussion at Talk:Aircraft maintenance technician#Merge with Aircraft Maintenance Engineer? — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 13:24, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There is a distinction between a job description and a professional qualification or title. This is made very clear in the style guides referred to; please read them properly before invoking them here. One example given is the distinction between the office of president of the US and the incumbent's title as President of the US. Another is the use of republican to denote a political creed but Republican to denote a particular political party of that name. As an article-based example here, we have one on the military rank of sergeant major and also many specific articles, typically nationality-based, on capitalised Sergeant Major of the Army, etc. Turning to the present proposal, it is internationally recognised by the ICAO that the aircraft maintenance technician, engineer and mechanic are synonymous, so one lower-case article is sufficient to cover all of them. But the nationally-based professional qualifications and accompanying titles of the capitalised Aircraft Maintenance Technician, Aircraft Maintenance Engineer and so on differ, just as the roles and responsibilities of the qualified AME differ between Canada and most other Commonwealth nations. To take just one example, the Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (Canada) is qualified to carry out the tasks of the aircraft maintenance engineer, technician or mechanic, but may or may not do so; the Canadian AME's principal responsibility is to approve such works as airworthy, on behalf of the relevant government minister. By contrast the American AMT carries out exactly the same work but must defer to a Designated Airworthiness Representative – Maintenance (DAR-T) or other delegated appointee for certification. Capitalisation is how the professional world maintains these distinctions in text when it needs to, which is not that often - hence the misleading stats gathered by the OP. Subjective rhetoric over "needing" to "correct" endless articles sadly displays an editorial PoV bias which fails to respect the very guidelines it cites. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 13:20, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So why doesn't Transport Canada capitalize? Or here? Or the other cited sources? Dicklyon (talk) 18:12, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
On this encyclopedia MOS:JOBTITLES, MOS:DOCTCAPS and WP:NCCAPS take precedence over Transport Canada's editorial style from 19 years ago. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 18:59, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I presume that edition is still current. Steelpillow, if you want the title to refer to the certification, the article title will need to express this directly; e.g., "Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Certificate". But your case is further disadvantaged in that there's no single, international certificate. The term is generic. Tony (talk) 00:09, 27 August 2022 (UTC) Also, please note MOS: no hyphen after "-ly" adverbs. You have a bet each way just above. Tony (talk) 00:10, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Aviation Wikiproject has been notified of this discussion on its talk page. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 14:02, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per cited sources and more. The first, most-cited ref, on the Canadian one that defines this license, says "The standards set out in this Division apply in respect of aircraft maintenance engineer (AME) licenses issued pursuant to CAR 403.03." The capitalized form is found there only in title-case headings. Similarly, in the main article this ref says "An aircraft maintenance engineer (AME) is a licensed person who carries out and certifies aircraft maintenance." and "A licensed aircraft maintenance engineer (L-AME) is an AME with an inspection authorization." Wikipedia uses sentence case for titles, per WP:NCCAPS. The cited sources clearly show that capitalization is not necessary. Dicklyon (talk) 18:06, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:NCCAPS, "Do not capitalize the second or subsequent words in an article title, unless the title is a proper name" (my bold). MOS:JOBTITLES and MOS:DOCTCAPS give examples of such proper names, as I already pointed out above. Cherry-picking from our MOS to support an editorial PoV is not acceptable. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 18:59, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
These job titles / certification titles are clearly not proper names. It's important to understand the linguistic definition of a proper name. I also don't see support for capping these titles in MOS:JOBTITLES or MOS:DOCTCAPS. The "formal title" part of MOS:JOBTITLES is for "a specific entity", i.e. a title held by only one person at a time, such as the president or prime minister or secretary of state of a specific country or the pope (i.e. office-holder as pre-eminent leader of a specific religion), the governor of a specific place or the mayor of a specific city, not a job title or certification concurrently held by thousands of people. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:44, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Requested move of associated dab. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 20:44, 26 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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