Talk:John George, Elector of Brandenburg
What is SRI Sacrum Romanum Imporium or Holy Roman Empire (Heilig Roemisch Reich Deutscher Nation)
Aside from the equally bad spellings of HRE in Latin and German, there is no reason for both in the entry. It's just being redundant. I removed the redundancies, including the bogus Prince Elector thing. ALL the Margraves of Brandenburg were Electors, it was not a special title -- there were seven: Abps. of Trier, Mainz, and Cologne (I think), M. of Brandenburg, Count Palatine of the Rhine, and two other laymen -- the Duke of Saxony, I think and I can't remember the last one.
- As for the link, I left it, but again, I implore people to be more critical of this type of source -- I commented on this one in particular at great length on another of Helga's pages....JHK
HJ, the 'turned it over to Jesuits' is unforgivably vague. turned over his duchy to be ruled by jesuits? turned over religious instruction in his duchy to jesuits is the likely answer. -- MichaelTinkler
I never saw your earlier note, I'm afraid, but Brandenburg/Prussian? history isn't so obscure that it has to be gleaned from selective interpretation of contemporary illustrations (flatly contradicted by their own accompanying text - uncited, of course), obscure references to nominal titles, or unnamed encyclopaedias (which?). Why would Johann Georg, a Lutheran ruler, hand his dominions to the Jesuits? Would this revolutionary transformation in the religious balance of central Europe not have registered more forcefully in the historical record than appears to have been the case?
To David Parker (With all the ramblings of the professors I almost did not see your note either). The rulers at that time switched back and forth several times.8o percent were protestant. But there were Calvinists and all kinds of other reformers. Under the Habsburgs the Anti-Reformation brought the Catholics back to appr. 50/50 in Germany. Many Hohenzollern were Calvinists and always had to get along with the emperors , who headed the Catholic Anti-Reformation. [Albert I of Prussia]? was Lutheran.Johann Georg and his brother Johann Sigismund took on reformed religion in 1613. The way it is written in wikipedia now is fine, because today it does not make much difference any more.
Frau Jonat
Please discontinue contributing historicle articles if, as you say, "because today it does not make much difference any more." It does matter. It also matters that the movement you call the Anti-Reformation is actually called the Catholic Reformation or,up until about 20-25 years ago, the Counter-Reformation. I'm sorry that you consider our attempts to help you avoid the egregious errors you seem hell-bent on making, "ramblings." It was my hope that you were truly interested in making useful, historically valid contributions. Apparently, you are only interested in writing what you want to write and propogating views of history that are yours and yours alone. That being the case, I no longer feel obligated to offer courtesy explanations when good sense and demonstrably better knowledge compel me to edit the utter crap with which you choose to pollute this site. JHK
JHK, I'm slightly bemused by your removal of my last JG revision on grounds of suspected plagiarism: the wording was entirely my own, distilled (with hardly any of the original remaining) from the 1911 Britannica on "Brandenburg". I'm vaguely flattered to imagine that a closely similar conclusion might have been published by someone else who's doubtless done far more work on the topic than myself, but I could find precious little on the subject in the short time avalaible for a much-needed re-write. Please rest assured, if there's one thing I don't do, it's plagiarism (perhaps working from a single general source isn't necessarily much better, but on this occasion I plead extenuating circumstances). David Parker
- David, my abject apologies. I had not realized you'd made the revision. HJ was in and out so much, and is so enamored of Prussian rulers, that I thought it was her contribution. As it was far too elegantly written to be her work, I thought it had been lifted. JHK
- No problem. DP
To David Parker This Johann Georg Hohenzollern (1525-1598) remained Lutheran. His grandsons Johann Sigismund and Johann Georg , both sons of Joachim Friedrich,were raised at the court of their grandfather under a lutheran teacher. When both brothers went to study at Strassburg, they learned about Calvinism. The grandfather Johan Georg made them sign documents, not to change religion. Both brother changed to Calvinism in 1613 .(from Kirchenlexikon -church lexicon). H. Jonat
HJ: I suspected as much from your wording, but didn't have time to check it out. Yes, Reformed = Calvinist here. It's significant that Johann Sigismund accepted the state's Lutheran orientation, so his change of conscience remained a private affair rather than a matter of state. The confusion of the two Johan Georgs is a timely reminder, though, of the need to take care with statements of fact. David Parker