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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Dustek (talk | contribs) at 09:34, 2 October 2022 (→Fully protected: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

More on the reverted revisions of @HistoryofIran

Hey @HistoryofIran, I noticed that you removed some content by making a change directly, and not discussing it in advance in the talk page. Before you do something like that, you should bring your intents here and let it be discussed briefly. Also, please read Wikipedia:Consensus. Roj im (talk) 15:35, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Kurdish transliteration is something new that was added, therefore I am not violating anything. In fact, you are the one violating it. I have already explained my reasoning [1]. However, you are yet to do that. You even put the Kurdish transliteration before the Persian one this time, the sole official language of the country. Care to explain why you did that as well? --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:52, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@HistoryofIran: I repeat, the revision message is not enough reasoning. You should provide reliable sources. Please refer to Wikipedia:Verifiability#Reliable_sources. I also did not add anything, I just improved the currently existing content. I would not revert your revisions this time, but let a moderator get involved. Roj im (talk) 18:22, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Provide reliable sources? For what? Sorry, but that’s not how discussions work here, nor real life for that matter; Could you explain yourself? And why you put Kurdish before the only official language of the country? HistoryofIran (talk)
@HistoryofIran: Could you please give me the ID of the revision where I added any content stating that Kurdish is the official language of anywhere? Roj im (talk) 18:35, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Huh? I was referring to Persian, you know, the sole official language of Iran? Please re-read my comment(s). Moreover, I am still awaiting an explanation from you. Since you like to attempt to lecture me with guidelines, let me return the favour; please read WP:STONEWALLING. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:40, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@HistoryofIran: I assume that you are saying something like "I demoted Persian" or "I promoted Kurdish", and I asked for the ID of the revision where I added some content like that. Also, what explanation do you want from me? That you remove every "Kurdish" you see in the article by specifying the reason in your revision message? This recent revision is enough explanation for anyone. I did not even involve in that section :) Roj im (talk) 19:04, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@HistoryofIran and Roj im: There's no point in squabbling. Since she has Kurdish background, and her name is known in Kurdish as well as in Persian, I think both can be added. Preferably with Persian first, given that it's the official language of Iran.-- Ideophagous (talk) 19:10, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Ideophagous Sorry, but I disagree. Kurdish has no official status in Iran or anything like that, and her Kurdish background has nothing to do with this unfortunate event. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:19, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@HistoryofIran: If you're trying to work with Iran and its official languages, there are around a thousand articles to play with. You may also start by attempting to remove every "Kurdish" you see in the article Saqqez. Roj im (talk) 19:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If you have nothing to say, kindly stop derailing this thread. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:22, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's not about the official status or lack thereof. This is not an article about Iran or an official government body in that country. Since the name in Kurdish is relevant to her background, it can help users find more information about her, and also show up more easily in searches if the name in Kurdish is included. I agree that excessive references to her Kurdish background should be avoided as well.-- Ideophagous (talk) 19:22, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but then why did you change it from 'Iranian' to 'Kurdish'? [2]. I have reverted this per MOS:CONTEXTBIO. Her Kurdish background has nothing to do with his event. So I don't see why her name in Kurdish should be here either. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:27, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I copied the old lead from a previous edit, which was changed by an IP. Didn't notice the "Kurdish" part. Ideophagous (talk) 19:30, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the opinion, @Ideophagous. I actually am not the one who added her name in Kurdish, neither the one who put it to the first. I just saw the removal of it, and I wanted to discuss the matter. Roj im (talk) 19:19, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
and while you're squabbling over these minor issues, the article actually needs serious improvement of many of its sections, and should preferably have a background section as well, which explains the situation of women in Iran, regarding hijab law, police treatment, etc.--Ideophagous (talk) 19:25, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with HistoryofIran on this. She was born in Kurdistan, but she was an Iranian woman. She could have been equally born in one of the other provinces that have their own ethnic groups and languages, such as Lorestan, Mazandaran, Gilan, or Azerbaijan, but she would still be Iranian. And even though many languages exist within Iran, the sole official language is Persian. Not to mention that her ethnicity is totally unrelated to what actually happened to her. Keivan.fTalk 04:18, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I just don't see the harm in including her name in Kurdish in the lead for the reasons I mentioned above. Ideophagous (talk) 06:22, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Her Kurdish background has nothing to do with his event." - That doesn’t mean that we can't put her Kurdish name in the article. This reason isn’t enough to remove the name. Because if the kurdish name doesn’t affect the article or description of the event then we should keep the name. If anyone want to remove the Kurdish name then they should explain in a logical and correct way that how her Kurdish name can affect the article. Mehedi Abedin 06:42, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And so why should we exactly add a name that is irrelevant? How come the other explanations aren't "logical and correct"? --HistoryofIran (talk) 09:15, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Kurdish name is relevant to her cultural background, therefore it should be added. Any other references to "Kurds" or Kurdish culture, should on the other hand only be included if they're directly relevant to the content. Pushing this too far in either direction (removing all references to her Kurdish background or putting too much of it) is basically inviting vandalism. I would not fault Kurds if they try to modify the article if they see that it purposefully eliminates any mention of her being a Kurdish-Iranian, which is a given fact. But once again, I agree that her being Kurdish is irrelevant to the subject matter (as an Iranian, she would have been subject to the same treatment regardless of her background), and therefore that should not be included for no good reason. The name in Kurdish however is fine to include. This is most certainly not the same thing as including the Kurdish name for someone who has nothing to do with Kurds or Kurdish culture, contrary to what you wrote somewhere above. Ideophagous (talk) 10:19, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Her Kurdish background has nothing to do with his event" is what I wrote, which I still stand by. She died due to the hijab regulations, not her Kurdish background. This article is about her unfortunate death, which is notable, not her as an actual person. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:27, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
... and her name in Kurdish is still relevant to the article. There's no point in being ultra-nationlistic about this. Just concede this point, and let's move on to more important issues with the article that should be improved. Also please read Wikipedia:Etiquette.-- Ideophagous (talk) 10:32, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Quite rich that you accuse me of being ultra-nationalistic and then proceed to advice me to read Wikipedia:Etiquette. Feel free to read it yourself and then WP:ASPERSIONS and WP:NPA. When you're ready to have a calm discussion without attacking others, feel free to reply to my arguments. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:37, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You've just proved my point. Have a good day.-- Ideophagous (talk) 10:41, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That made no sense, but sure. And likewise. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:44, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per MOS:CONTEXTBIO: "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability."
Mahsa Amini was a citizen of Iran, born and raised in Iran. Her province of origin is not an autonomous region, nor a federal subject. Her tragic death, according to the sources at our disposal, simply had nothing to do with her Kurdishness. It was all due to the appaling human rights (and in particular, women's rights) in the country. In addition, Iran's sole official language is Persian. Kurdish doesn't hold official status. IMO, adding the Kurdish transliteration to the lede or material about her Kurdish origins diverts (read: WP:UNDUE) from what is going on atm in Iran per the sources; namely a nationwide uprising. It is not a "Kurdish uprising". I don't see any reason to add the Kurdish translit or her Kurdish roots to the lede of this article per these arguments and Wikipedia policies. However, I'm up for adding content about her Kurdish roots (and perhaps even the Kurdish transliteration) to the body of the article. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:15, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There's absolutely no reason why her Kurdish name shouldn't be included on the infobox, at the very least. Is there any disagreement on that point? Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 22:32, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fully protected

I really didn't want to do this to an article being updated so much, but I've fully protected the article for 12 hours due to multi-party edit-warring over whether and how to mention Amini's Kurdish background. @LouisAragon, Pirehelokan, Mitrayasna, Alexcalamaro, Keivan.f, HistoryofIran and Roj im and Semsûrî: Please discuss, and discuss civilly or I'm going to have to start handing out partial blocks or WP:ARBKURDS sanctions. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 19:51, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why I am included when I edited the page twice cleaning up the templates and not involved in the disputes. Semsûrî (talk) 19:55, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Semsûrî: Apologies. Lots of diffs. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 21:18, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Tamzin: So I assume we have to reply here? Though I'm not entirely sure who I am writing this for because no one else has responded. To make my stance clear, I simply believe that when including the native name, the official language of the country to which she belonged should be given preference. Thus, in the lede, Persian should come first, as that is the sole official language of Iran. Yes, she was from Kurdistan and could converse in Kurdish as well, but her ethnicity has nothing to do with her tragic death. She could have been born in another province, and her ethnic language could have been Azerbaijani, Gilkai, Mazanderani, Luri, etc. So the Persian equivalent of the name has to be included and has to come first as she was an Iranian woman, but if people insist on including Kurdish too, that would be fine with me personally. As another user pointed out, sometimes we "do this with people from places with regional languages, as Catalan". And hopefully we can get over this trivial issue now, because the article needs improvement. Keivan.fTalk 01:57, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and if others refuse to speak their mind, then I suppose this suggestion could be implemented (Persian, followed by Kurdish), and anyone who changes the structure of the first sentence again would face the consequences. So please make sure to reply if you desire a different outcome. Keivan.fTalk 01:59, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I also think this change (inclusion of her Kurdish name) should be made on the infobox as well.
And for anyone who thinks that her being Kurdish is somehow not relevant, here is something from a recent Washington Post article:
Videos show protesters, some speaking Kurdish, taking to the streets in Kamyaran and Abdanan, near Iran’s border with Iraq. Many of the protests have been concentrated in the west, the poor, predominantly Kurdish region Amini’s family hails from. The Kurds — who speak their own language, have a distinct cultural identity and are mostly Sunni Muslims in a majority-Shiite country — have complained for decades of neglect by the central government.
Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 02:13, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody denied that Kurds are being oppressed. At this point, many ethnic groups are being abused in Iran, but the factor that influenced the subject's arrest was her gender and her alleged refusal to conform with hijab laws, not her ethnicity. I think for the sake for simplicity, we can only include Persian and Kurdish equivalents in the lede and don't have them listed on the infobox, as in my opinion it would make it unnecessarily long. But again, let's see what others think. Keivan.fTalk 03:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Keivan.f: Thank you for your comment. I do not recall anything in Wikipedia policies about having a name only in the official language of a country. Why the Kurdish spelling of her name should be removed especially knowing that her name was actually Kurdish. The linguistic issue aside, removing the Kurdish spelling is against Wikipedia:neutrality. This is especially crucial knowing the prosecution against Kurdish language. Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral. Wikipedia is not Iran, and Iranian law about languages does not apply. Thanks. Pirehelo (talk) 04:42, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is regrettable that at this time when a country is in turmoil, we are sitting here discussing trivial issues that bore no influence on the tragedy that happened to this woman. Yes, many ethnic groups have been prosecuted in Iran and Kurds especially suffered the consequences, yet the subject's ethnicity was not the reason for which she was prosecuted and most probably killed. It seems that some people fail to understand this. This is an issue that is affecting all Iranian women regardless of their ethnicity, religion, or political opinions. As I said earlier, both the Persian and Kurdish equivalents can be included. There's no point in hashing and rehashing the same things all over again. Keivan.fTalk 04:49, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed that the subject's ethnicity likely had very little to do with what happened to her, but as this is a page about her (and her death), it also serves in part as her biography, and therefore is important to include her Kurdish name as well as her Persian name. There are plenty of pages about American individuals, for example, that also mention their Chinese or Japanese names, etc. etc. Seems like it should be uncontroversial to just mention both versions of her name and move on. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 05:09, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It has a lot to do with what happened to her, anonymous. Dustek (talk) 09:33, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A Persian women has less chance of being beaten to death. Half of the people Iran executes are Kurdish despite the population being much smaller. You think that's accidental? A statistical fluke? Dustek (talk) 09:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This lady's local name is Jina and her official name is Mahsa. In the case of Mahsa's name, I agree that there should be only Persian spellings, but in the case of Jina's name, there should be both spellings. Mitrayasna (talk) 08:29, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support adding the Kurdish transliteration to Zhina Amini as a comprise. She was born and raised in Iran, where Persian is the sole official language. Her Kurdishness had nothing to do with her unfortunate death, which is the subject here. --HistoryofIran (talk) 09:40, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Initially, there was her name in Kurdish. An editor removed it insisting that it was not a necessity. I discussed the matter, we didn't agree, there was a sort of edit warring, then we got a third opinion, we edited it as the third opinion suggested, the warring continued, the page got protected, a poll was started, the poll ended, the article was edited again as suggested by the poll results, the protection went away, an editor reverted the poll suggestions partially by editing the article directly without previous agreements, and then the poll pivoted from "to have her name in Kurdish or not" to "to have only one version her name in Kurdish or both" and "to have her name in Kurdish in the infobox or not". Now I want to know if the partial revert of the poll results by @Mitrayasna was a good thing or not. I think since we all agreed on that, it should be reverted. — Roj im (talk) 10:03, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Was this really neccesary? There is already an ongoing discussion up above. Also, Roj im, you're yet to actually come with a single argument, so you obviously didn't "discuss" anything. You could perhaps start with that. And as Mitrayasna already stated, no WP:CONSENSUS had been made. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:09, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I see it as necessary because there is an inconsistency, you tried to move the goal of the original poll, and @Mitrayasna reverted what we all agreed on without previous discussions. Roj im (talk) 10:23, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not related to resolving this content dispute. Can be discussed further at Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement or Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents if necessary. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 15:51, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I haven't tried to move anything, I simply stated my opinion. Heck, I even made a comprimise. Meanwhile you have been WP:STONEWALLING for two days straight, keen on only making Kurdish-related edits and especially attempting to add her Kurdish name in an article about the death of a poor woman, with an account with under 100 edits; this seems very reminiscent of WP:SPA. What is "We all agreed on without previous discussions" supposed to mean? How about giving the discussion a change to continue and a WP:CONSENSUS to ensure? --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:27, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's really clear for anyone to know who is stonewalling, some people who are directly reverting or removing everything they personally don't agree on, without caring about anything, or some other who want to discuss what is wrong with them. — Roj im (talk) 10:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
'Sigh', that's not what stonewalling means. You keep proving my point. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:38, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I, for real, proved your point of trying to enforce an outer agenda on Wikipedia. Let me prove it more, here is a list of your (mostly revert) diffs of trying to do this:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Death_of_Mahsa_Amini&diff=1111626619&oldid=1111624765
- https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Death_of_Mahsa_Amini&diff=1111583463&oldid=1111583421
- https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Death_of_Mahsa_Amini&diff=1111581943&oldid=1111580896
- https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Death_of_Mahsa_Amini&diff=1111575757&oldid=1111575100
- https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Death_of_Mahsa_Amini&diff=1111553249&oldid=1111553159
- https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Death_of_Mahsa_Amini&diff=1111552995&oldid=1111552114
- https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Death_of_Mahsa_Amini&diff=1111533134&oldid=1111533013
- https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Death_of_Mahsa_Amini&diff=1111533013&oldid=1111527688
It's literally every single contribution that you have made to the article. — Roj im (talk) 10:44, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, how does this prove that I have an agenda? I could also post your diffs and say the exact same, it would just look even worse since 99% of your account edits are attempting to insert something Kurdish related here (further proving WP:SPA). Anyways, let's not derail any further. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:50, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Could you do that, please? I would really be glad to know where I was not right. 99% of my contributions, if is related to contents in the Kurdish language, they are only modifications, and not edits. Also, if I would judge like you, I could say that the 99% of your contributions is for denouncing any "Kurdish" you see. For that reason, you would be more applicable for a vandalism-dedicated single-purpose account. — Roj im (talk) 10:53, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to repeat, I am not the one who added her name in Kurdish. I am only here to know more about the constant effort being made on removing any "Kurdish" that can be seen in the article, without caring about any consensus that has been made. — Roj im (talk) 10:56, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So 99% of my 73,978 edits are denouncing anything "Kurdish"? You are just blabbering at this rate. It seems you clearly don't know what WP:SPA nor WP:Vandalism means either. --HistoryofIran (talk) 10:58, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not only is it unnecessary, it is harmful and confusing
1. Mahsa Amini is mentioned in the world sources
2. In Iranian sources it is said مهسا امینی and sometimes ژینا امینی
3. In local sources, it is mentioned as ژینا and sometimes مهسا
It can be said that مه هسا ​​has almost zero use Mitrayasna (talk) 10:33, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You could have said all this before making a direct change. But anyway, I appreciate that you're at least trying to make a point now. — Roj im (talk) 10:39, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is not the case at all. Her name is everywhere in Persian and is preferable to other pronunciations. Also, his English name is exactly derived from the Persian pronunciation of the name (مهسا).
The matching of this girl's Latin name with the Persian pronunciation of Mahsa is a strong reason to write only the Persian spelling of her name. Mitrayasna (talk) 10:16, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Her being Kurdish is also a strong reason to include her name in that format as well. Why is it so problematic to include both? Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 17:41, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I explained above.Mitrayasna (talk) 21:56, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Mitrayasna: If you were Kurdish, or had a Kurdish name ... something tells me that you would be thinking very differently about the issue of representation and identity etc. It seems like the respectful and decent thing to do, by including both forms of her name, as it now appears in the lede of the article. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 23:04, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, I am from Urmia and my mother is Kurdish, please don't make the issue personal.Thank You Mitrayasna (talk) 23:17, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just saying that it's easy to overlook things based on where our perspective is coming from. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 23:21, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Zhina/Jina confusion

Both Zhina and Jina are representations of her name in Kurdish with no difference in the pronunciation. Zhina is based on the Romanization of Persian, and Jina is based on Jîna, the same name written in the Kurdish Latin alphabet. The current state of the first paragraph of the article might create a confusion as readers might think their pronunciation are different. I suggest removing the "Jina Amini", and adding its full version next to the lang-ku template.

Like this:

On 16 September 2022, a 22-year-old Iranian woman named '''Mahsa Amini''' ({{lang-fa|مهسا امینی}}, {{lang-ku|مەھسا ئەمینی ,Mehsa Emînî}}), also known as '''Jina Amini''' or '''Zhina Amini''' ({{lang-fa|ژینا امینی}}, {{lang-ku|ژینا ئەمینی ,Jîna Emînî}}),<ref name="ncr">{{Cite web |date=15 September 2022 |title=Zhina Amini goes into coma 2 hours after arrest |url=https://women.ncr-iran.org/2022/09/15/zhina-amini-goes-into-coma/ |access-date=18 September 2022 |language=en-US}}</ref> died in [[Tehran]], Iran, under suspicious circumstances, potentially due to [[police brutality]].<ref name=":0">{{Cite web |date=16 September 2022 |title=Iranian woman 'beaten' by police for 'improper hijab' dies after coma: State media |url=https://english.alarabiya.net/News/middle-east/2022/09/16/Iranian-woman-beaten-by-police-for-not-wearing-hijab-dies-after-coma |access-date=16 September 2022 |publisher=[[Al Arabiya]]}}</ref><ref>{{Cite web |title=IranWire Exclusive: Morality Patrol Beats a Woman into a Coma |url=https://iranwire.com/en/women/107558-iranwire-exclusive-morality-patrol-beats-a-woman-into-coma/ |website=iranwire.com |date=15 September 2022 |access-date=18 September 2022}}</ref>

Also: Hey, @Mitrayasna: Please provide more info on why you did this.

— Roj im (talk) 09:08, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have to write her name with international spelling Mitrayasna (talk) 09:21, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree on adding the Kurdish transliteration to the Mahsa Amini name per the arguments up above. --HistoryofIran (talk) 09:36, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What about only removing the "Jina Amini" as it is a wrong representation and might lead to confusion? — Roj im (talk) 09:37, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Permitted and forbidden names in Iran

This article provides some background on Iran's control of how its citizens name their children: Iran often denies names that are not on their approved Islamic list, names that represent ethnic nationalism or regional pride, etc. So Amini's "alternate" names are germane to the story of her life in a very real way: as a Kurd, the Iranian government did not appreciate her ethnic identity and attempted to assimilate her from the moment of birth by bestowing an "approved" name, rather than the Kurdish one her family prefers. Elizium23 (talk) 04:29, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and the discussion above with Persian rants is pure evil. Dustek (talk) 09:32, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wikilinks could be added, regarding the Internet blackouts, in the last paragraph of the lede, and also in the On social media section of this article, where it mentions Internet disruptions.

Content at Mahsa Amini protests#Internet blackouts is more in-depth than what is presented here, so a link to that section would be helpful, I think, for anyone wanting to learn more. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 07:55, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Age

Hi there, User:Ideophagous, I hope all is well. I was just concerned about the age of the subject, Mahsa Amini. The citations say that she was either born on 22 July 2000 or 20 September 1999. As of this discussion, it is 25 September 2022. So by that calculation, she would be 23 based on the second citation. Should the age be added back in? Thanks, Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 20:42, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

She died on September 16 (possibly earlier if eyewitness testimony is correct), so regardless of her birthdate, she never reached 23.-- Ideophagous (talk) 21:38, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my, I forgot about her death. I should have looked at the full details before pinging you on the talk page. I apologize for jumping the gun. Cheers, Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 22:21, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's alright. Have a good day/night!-- Ideophagous (talk) 22:24, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Will do! Same to you! Take care, Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 22:42, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kurd

A person from Kurdistan may be of another ethnicity, User:Ideophagous . Xx236 (talk) 10:54, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but you added the statement in the wrong section. Also, we've had this conversation about ethnicity already. Please read the section above titled "More on the reverted revisions of @HistoryofIran", and add your comment there. There's no point in re-iterating the same things over and over. If you're not satisfied with the result, you can call for an RfC.-- Ideophagous (talk) 10:59, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

An artwork

hello, i created this artwork and uploaded in commons. may you can find a way to use it

File:Mahsa amini.jpg

. because she died soon, an untimely death, i finished this art incomplet.Roxjor (talk) 18:20, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose inclusion of this artwork as it is against WP:NPOV as a political statement.
Elizium23 (talk) 19:09, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
how can in fix it?Roxjor (talk) 19:44, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You can't. The entire purpose of the image is a social-political statement equating Amini with freedom or with activism for freedom.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:40, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

hijab

either it's a foreign word and is italicized, or it is an English word and takes proper grammar, i.e, "a hijab". Primergrey (talk) 19:05, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would come down on the side of italicized foreign-language word. Elizium23 (talk) 19:08, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would not, not in 2022. It has become assimilated and will be found in any good English dictionary [3]. For a list of online searchable ones, see here: Wikipedia:WikiProject English Language#Online tools.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:59, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kurdish Latinized/Kurmancî spelling

Add latinized name: Jîne Mehse Emînî. Krqftan (talk) 04:29, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, Latin isn't used in Iran and Kurmancî is barely spoken in the western part of the country, let alone in Kurdistan province. --HistoryofIran (talk) 06:40, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Word of "Allegedly" is not fair

Hello @HistoryofIran, Some of users insist to put word of "Allegedly" to the article whereas the sources are saying something different and all sources and most of iranian people are sure Mahsa amini has been beaten by Guidance Patrol in custody beacause they have seen and experienced it thousands and thousands times themselves. this is why they reacted strongly to it.

please remove word of allegedly and chose better word for it because we see people have protested against the killing mahsa amini and this protest is bigger than any other one in the recent history of iran.H2KL (talk) 07:19, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hey there! I get what you're saying there, I'm pretty certain she was beaten up too, based on her brain scan photos and the fact that it was reported that "she had suffered a heart attack" although she hadn't had any history of heart diseases, but do you really have video evidence of her getting beaten up? Nope, that's why they're using "Allegedly". AradTheSimp (talk) 07:41, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@AradTheSimp yes we have tens of videos similar to that in which you can see guidance patrol treat people very brutally. H2KL (talk) 07:56, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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