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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Владимир Казаринов (talk | contribs) at 04:57, 3 October 2022 (→Russia and Ukraine). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Merge Proposal

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
There is consensus against the merge. The majority opinion is while there may be some overlap the topics of the pages are different. AlbinoFerret 21:08, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that the article List of military occupations be merged into this article. Certainly the second half of the article, List of military occupations#Current military occupations should be merged into here. In fact, that section is a list of current territorial disputes, all of which are already included here, which some editor or other, in an effort to promote his or her own point of view regarding the dispute, has deemed a "military occupation." While the list purports to be based on some objective criteria of what constitutes a military occupation (as opposed, for example, an annexation or border adjustment), every one of the entries in the list is the subject of dispute. "Territorial dispute" is a much more neutral and much more accurate description of the political and military situations of these entries.

There is no justification for having two lists so similar in content, especially when one of them is of such questionable neutrality. --Ravpapa (talk) 16:34, 22 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Do not merge — The vast majority of the article does not contain territorial disputes. Was Germany's occupation of Poland a territorial dispute? Clearly not. If editors perceive there are problems with the list, they can be addressed in a variety of ways other than scrapping it altogether and merging it here. – Zntrip 19:14, 22 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do not merge These are obviously totally different concepts. Many of the disputes involve no military forces, and lots are actually between countries who have a good relationship with one another. Nick-D (talk) 07:59, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Gibraltar

Gibraltar is not subject to a territorial dispute. Nobody disputes Britian's legal title to it. Spain wants it handed over to them, but do not dispute the fact that it was ceded to Britain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.120.237.139 (talk) 16:49, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There is a territorial dispute, but the wording you removed was inaccurate in implication.
The relevant clause of the Treaty of Utrecht is:

The Catholic King [of Spain] does hereby, for himself, his heirs and successors, yield to the Crown of Great Britain the full and entire propriety of the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging; and he gives up the said propriety to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever.

Spain emphasises the section "the town and castle of Gibraltar, together with the port, fortifications, and forts thereunto belonging". They argue that the ceded territory only consists the town, castle, port, fortifications and forts associated with Gibraltar in 1713 and thus argues that Britain has no right to e.g. airspace and territorial waters (concepts that did not yet exist in 1713). It disputes British control over the isthmus between the Rock of Gibraltar and La Linéa as not being part of the cession described.
Britain emphasises the section "to be held and enjoyed absolutely with all manner of right for ever, without any exception or impediment whatsoever". They argue that they have the same rights as they would have in any other British territory, including e.g. airspace and territorial waters. They also argue that they have a right to the isthmus under the doctrine of prescription (i.e. if Spain had a problem with it they should have said something at the time).
The wording removed was "Spain claims territory under the Treaty of Utrecht conditions". This is wrong - both positions rely on Utrecht. It's a matter of differing interpretations of Utrecht. I have reinstated Gibraltar with a wording that better describes this. Kahastok talk 17:37, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Internal Spanish dispute

Disputes within a state by internal entities---> Spain: Basque Country against Castille and León for Treviño enclave.

http://america.pink/trevino-enclave-dispute_4518191.html

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.231.85.98 (talk • contribs) 19:09, 29 May 2016‎

New columns

I'm adding a column over whether natural resources and one over whether strategic locations are involved. May be interesting. Based on the articles, of course. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 13:33, 3 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

PRC and RoC

Some points about this dispute:

- The dispute about Hong Kong should be in the "Disputes between UN-recognized states and others", not in the "Disputes between recognized sovereign states"

- The same for Macclesfield Bank

- The same for Taiwan (who appears duplicated, in both lists)

- There is really need of a reference to "Heixiazi / Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island"? This is not covered by the dispute about "Mainland China, Hainan, and other islands controlled by the PRC"? The same could be applied, btw, to the disputes about Hong Kong and Macclesfield Bank (basically, PRC and RoC dispute all territories controlled by the other - they are two rival governments reclaiming more or less the same territory)--MiguelMadeira (talk) 13:53, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nagorno-Karabakh

Nagorno-Karabakh is disputed by Armenia and Azerbaijan (in any way, if it is the case, it should be in the "Disputes between recognized sovereign states"? Or it is a dispute between Azerbaijan and the self-proclaimed Nagorno-Karabakh?--MiguelMadeira (talk) 13:59, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's another US-Mexico border dispute.

Mexico said that Texas's southern border was the Nuces River, while the US claimed that it was the Rio Grande. See Mexican%E2%80%93American_War#Origins_of_the_war — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.235.102.246 (talk) 17:07, 30 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Maps

Is there a way this page could have maps or a map of disputed territories? I think this would be really helpful.

Thanks!

-TenorTwelve (talk) 06:05, 24 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sir Abu Nu’ayr island

Sir Abu Nu’ayr island disputed by Iran and UAE. see it : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Disputed_territories_in_the_Persian_Gulf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Callofworld (talk • contribs) 11:44, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

China-Nepal disputes

There were a brief dispute between China and Nepal in the late 1950s. The disputed areas were scattered throughout their border and were relatively minor by international standard. 

The exact number of territorial disputes has never been ascertained, but as many as 20 sectors may have been involved. The most serious disputes were located at Rasu (north of Katmandu), Kimathanka in the east, Nara Pass, Tingribode near Mustang, Mount Everest, and the Nelu River. Most of these disputes were settled in favor of Nepal, although several favored China.

[2] --Voidvector (talk) 08:13, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Kashmir

Users have been removing Kashmir and replacing it with Azad Kashmir. The dispute appears to cover much more than Azad Kashmir, as detailed in Kashmir conflict which is linked. These changes would seem to violate NPOV, unless I'm mistaken? —Guanaco 20:23, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm mistaken. A number of territories are listed individually, each part of the same overall conflict. Would it be better to merge them all, and leave who controls and claims what to Kashmir conflict and the lands' respective articles? —Guanaco 20:36, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mount Baekdu and Gando

Wasn't Baekdu dispute resolved per the 1962 agreement?! In article is stated this way. And also about Gando: ,,Today, none of the governments involved [...] make the claim that Gando is Korean territory". So I think that we should remove those two entries. We have two contradictory statements. --Daduxing (talk) 07:38, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup

This page needs a cleanup
(1)There is no distinction made between disputes; neclarities; or borders that were never formally agreed or delimited.
(2)When we are talking about territorial disputes we should emphasize the government's position and not the opinion of some groups or private persons.
(3)Paektu and Jiandao - As per 1962 border agreement between China and North Korea there are no disputes. Also we have a centuries old border agreement (1712) between Qing and Joseon states. We don't have a claim from South Korean government either. If there was ever a dispute in this case, this should be mentioned on the historical disputes or removed.
I’m removing Paektu and Jiandao from the list. If someone wants to add them back, please, provide a reference from a governmental source, not the opinion of some nationalistic groups or as I saw on this page from Reddit site, from a subreddit/subtopic named MapPorn --Daduxing (talk) 09:54, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Claims that Taiwan seeks to control various regions bordering China

There are many dubious claims on this page that Taiwan seeks to control various regions bordering China.

These are based on the Republic of China constitution's description of ROC territories, which may have been true at the time it was written. (The US constitution says there are 13 states, but no one claims that has anything to do with the present.)

The ROC constitution was never even intended to be the constitution for Taiwan, but the Taiwanese people can't change it, which China would consider a formal declaration of independence and justification for an attack the island.

No one in Taiwan even dreams of retaking the mainland anymore, let alone regions bordering China.

Maybe these could go in a list of historical disputes, but not a list of current ones.

2604:2000:F183:37F0:70F0:86A7:13AF:C038 (talk) 20:51, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it's reasonable to question whether these count as "territorial disputes", but it's not quite as a simple as you make it out to be, and some of your statements are incorrect. First, the Taiwanese people can make changes to the constitution - it was last amended in 2005. Second, it is an exaggeration to say that "No one in Taiwan even dreams of retaking the mainland anymore"; my understanding is that there are indeed those who still dream of this, though most of them are very old now. Certainly there are still elements within the KMT - possibly even most of the party leadership - who consider the ROC, in principle, to be the rightful government of all of China, in which case the territories in question could plausibly be an issue. GeoEvan (talk) 09:26, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, there are a few crazy individuals in Taiwan who want to take over mainland China. I have no doubt there are individuals in the US who want to take over Canada, but I wouldn't call that a "territorial dispute." And if there is a political party that is not in power, which makes claims on other countries, I wouldn't call that a "territorial dispute" either.
As for changes to the ROC constitution, the only changes relevant to this issue would be changes to descriptions of ROC territories, and there is zero doubt that the PRC would regard such changes as a formal declaration of independence, for which they have threatened violent retaliation.
2604:2000:F183:37F0:70F0:86A7:13AF:C038 (talk) 20:47, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a quite a lot civil servants in the current administration who still feel the ROC includes the Mainland (not necessarily the same thing as expecting to actually take it back), but I agree that that's maybe not enough of a reason to classify it as a "territorial dispute" in the strict sense. I do think it's useful for these territorial claim inconsistencies to be mentioned though. Hopefully we can find some kind of compromise solution, rather than just blanking them from the article. Moving them to Historical Disputes, with a substantial note about the situation, might be appropriate. Curious if anyone else has anything to say about this? I think it may have been discussed previously, but can't remember. GeoEvan (talk) 02:55, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

International Disputes

Remove bold notion

Bold notion doesn't help and can't be verified by sources. Description should clearly state the current status of disputed territory. Let's remove bold notion altogether. --Vanuan (talk) 23:21, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If we want to structure information on current status of territories, I propose the following columns:
  • country of physical control or influence (in the case of UN unrecognized entities it's useful to state which country sends humanitarian help, etc)
  • country of UN recognition (which country it should belong to, can be "undecided")
  • third party countries (whether there are UN recognized countries which don't comply with UN decision)
--Vanuan (talk) 23:31, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rockall

Any specific reason why Rockall is not mentioned here? I would add it but perhaps it does not meet the criteria. --Gerrit CUTEDH 07:57, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rockall itself is not really disputed, but the maritime dispute it generates may be worth including. CMD (talk) 14:02, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Territorial disputes of India

Just for the record, India's government just stated categorically that it has no border disputes with Afghanistan, Bhutan, Maldives, or Sri Lanka. It also stated that it has no border "dispute" with Myanmar, though the two countries' shared border is not yet fully demarcated. [1] I have added a note regarding the Kabaw border disagreement with Myanmar in the table. GeoEvan (talk) 22:14, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ [1]

Georgian conflict

Georgia has 2 disputed territories: 1. Abkhazia 2. South Ossetia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.74.2.194 (talk) 23:12, 11 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

the section on Noktundo is incorrect

The dispute should be between South Korea and Russia, not between North Korea and Russia.

--208.72.125.2 (talk) 21:38, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because... A "Country" is "a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory." As per wikipedia: "A country may be an independent sovereign state or part of a larger state, as a non-sovereign or formerly sovereign political division, a physical territory with a government, or a geographic region associated with sets of previously independent or differently associated people with distinct political characteristics."

East Sister covers all of these. Micronations typically do not have a population, are entirely digital, have no permanent residents, and certainly do not enforce border security. By contrast, East Sister has a population, is not a digital entity, has permanent residents, and maintains an armed perimeter to enforce border protection around the main island. There is no "legal" way of becoming a country prior to a group of people's ability to enforce their claim over their territory. -- Whodoeswhatnow (talk) 23:32, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Secondary source? --Numberguy6 (talk) 01:06, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To expand on Numberguy6's comment, is there any evidence of your residency? If you have occupied a nature reserve since 2016, you would have generated press coverage in Windsor Star or from CBC Windsor, etc. -- Zanimum (talk) 17:13, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Whodoeswhatnow: -- Zanimum (talk) 17:15, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone

Is this really a sovereign state? I think that it is actually an armed insurgency. I think that this can't qualify as a state due to its lack of government, as well as its lack of capacity to enter into relations with other states. --Numberguy6 (talk) 04:18, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Saudi-UAE dispute

I think this is a settled dispute. I have seen official UAE maps that do not include the disputed areas. Can someone look into this and check it out to confirm? HERMIT100 (talk) 20:39, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A Farmer Moved a 200-Year-Old Stone, and the French-Belgian Border

this is amusing. -- RoySmith (talk) 18:44, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kagera Salient, Tanzania

Could someone please add the former dispute surrounding the Kagera Salient in Tanzania? This was claimed - and briefly annexed - by Uganda during 1978 and 1979. I am unable to edit for some reason. Many thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.0.244.219 (talk) 14:13, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gibraltar

User Venezia Friulano wishes us to claim that Spain disputes British sovereignty over Gibraltar in its entirety. This is not accurate.

They base this claim on this Spanish government document. I'd invite you to read the source, and find anywhere where it says that Spain contests the existence of British sovereignty in Gibraltar. (To be clear, this does not include the isthmus between Gibraltar and Spain, which is disputed.)

On the other hand it does explicitly an unambiguously say that Gibraltar is "a territory under British sovereignty". I see no reason why we should not believe it when it says this.

Spain's argument is as follows:

  1. Spain argues that as the Treaty of Utrecht refers to "the city and the castle of Gibraltar, together with its port, defences and fortresses that belong to it", Britain has no rights outside these areas. This means that Spain argues that Britain has no rights to, for example:
    • The isthmus between the city and castle of Gibraltar and the Spanish town of La Linéa, an area that includes Gibraltar's airport
    • Territorial waters around Gibraltar, outside the port
    • Airspace over Gibraltar
  2. Spain argues that the British have an obligation under international law to negotiate a return of Gibraltar to Spanish sovereignty.

Britain does not accept any of these arguments. We sum this up as Dispute over the interpretation of the Treaty of Utrecht and the location of the border., which is accurate based on Venezia Friulano's own source. Kahastok talk 17:23, 3 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Territory disputed between Canada and the United States

Any reason this section exists, rather than being merged into the North American section? BilledMammal (talk) 02:08, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's just to provide a simpler table given the number of rows, although I don't know why it wouldn't at the very least be a subsection. CMD (talk) 18:24, 5 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Russia and Ukraine

Should we add territories occupied by Russia during the Russo-Ukraine war? Ex. Cherobynol, etc.--Cakepops4everr (talk) 15:09, 25 February 2022 (UTC) Cakepops4everr[reply]

They are not at the moment disputed between the states in this sense. CMD (talk) 16:55, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Sarych headland

Does is have scene to put in a separate line since the territory is fully a part of Crimea? No note added, is it a distinct case? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Владимир Казаринов (talk • contribs) 04:56, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tuzla Island

Same thing: since the location is in a near-Crimea area and disputed circumstances are really similar, could it be united with Crimea case?

Should Israel-Palestine dispute be moved to the section involving non UN states?

Since Palestine is only an Observer state of the UN and not ana actual UN member it shouldn't be in that section unless observer status also counts for this. 47.233.19.106 (talk) 04:22, 8 March 2022 (UTC) Also noticed that the Western Sahara dispute is found in both the Africa section and the non-UN section. 47.233.19.106 (talk) 04:24, 8 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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