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Talk:Waffen-SS

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by GELongstreet (talk | contribs) at 18:35, 26 October 2022 (NTF). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Pictures

I deleted the photo of "The dancing Armenians". User Vonones placed it in the articles about the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS. It doesn't belong in any of these. An encyclopedic article should give an overview of a topic. Details like this picture one can and should find in specialized books on the topic. More important and informativ are photos of personalities and equipment (see the discussion about the dead soldier).

#Casualties

Should ‘comparative’ be ‘comparable’? Or was the intention to say ‘xxx compared’? Wikiain (talk) 06:58, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Armed SS, weapon SS

Hello @Nug:. I saw that you undid my change to weapon SS. In my point of view "armed SS" is a false translation. Armed SS in German means "bewaffnete SS" and not "Waffen-SS". The literal translation of "Waffen-SS" is "weapons SS". Greets.--JonskiC (talk) 13:29, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Direct exact translations from Google do not necessarily convey the intended meaning. Google translates "Waffen" to "Weapon" but "Waffen SS" to "Armed SS". My German-English dictionary says that "Waffe" is a noun meaning "weapon" and "Waffen" is an adjective meaning "armed". — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:52, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Im German and I have to say thats false: Waffen ist just the plural of "Waffe" and does definitely not mean "armed". "armed" means "bewaffnet" and not "Waffen".--JonskiC (talk) 13:56, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In English, it's meaningless to say "Weapon SS". Weapon is a noun, and what's needed here is an adjective. Perhaps "Weaponized SS"? but as a native English speaker, I would not say "weaponized" when "armed" would do. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:13, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My German-English dictionary suggests 'arm (military branch)' as a meaning as much as "weapon" which would give "military SS" which has similar intent to 'armed-SS' GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:26, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(comment) I think their original intent was to convey that the Waffen-SS was the military branch of the SS. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:34, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What do reliable sources about the Waffen SS say it means? (Hohum @) 20:48, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • The Time-Life book The SS from their Third Reich series says "Waffen-, or military, SS" (page 13)
  • Evans uses "military SS" for example on page 76 of book 3
  • Shirer uses the term but does not define it
  • Longerich 2012 (the Himmler biography) uses the term but does not translate it
  • Chester Wilmot The Struggle for Europe uses "armed SS" (page 94 of the 1954 edition)
  • Beevor D-Day, The Second World War, and The Fall of Berlin use the term but do not define it
  • Toland uses "armed SS" on page 723 of the 1976 paperback edition
  • Kershaw The End calls it "Himmler's own military wing" on page 23
  • Levy, Nazi Hunter, uses "military SS" page 240 of the 2006 paperback edition
  • Bullock uses the term but doesn't define it
  • Speer page 733 (in the index, 1970 paperback) "military units of the SS"
Therefore the majority of the books I have here at home that mention the term define it as "military SS". — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 00:16, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The thing is, these are definitions; not necessarily translations. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 00:49, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Since we should be saying what reliable sources say, if they don't directly translate, surely neither should we? The Waffen SS were the warfighting, military arm of the SS - literally translating the title doesn't really add anything imo, especially if it's misleading - it's not like the 'regular' SS weren't armed. (Hohum @) 01:32, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In hindsight I have to agree, having a direct translation really doesn't add anything. I think everyone can agree with this definition[1] of the Waffen-SS as being the military branch of the SS. --Nug (talk) 08:39, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Terminology for members

I'm looking at another article that refers to "SS soldiers" but that doesn't seem to be terminology used here. Has there been a discussion on the correct term? I did find Talk:Waffen-SS/Archive_2#SS were not soldiers from 2016 (@K.e.coffman: who did the actual source-based research towards an answer) but it seems to have been inconclusive. ☆ Bri (talk) 05:36, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t know what other article you are referring to, but I believe it’s best to refer to them as troops, at this time. There’s been more of a general consensus reached as to how to refer to them in the last five years. Kierzek (talk) 12:43, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, it was Fury (2014 film) ☆ Bri (talk) 07:57, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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