Talk:Human

We should list the species as a member of the subphylum Vertebrata

Why does this page (and the ones of im many other vertebrates) not state that the species are vertebrates? Luka1184 (talk) 09:42, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Because the {{Speciesbox}} only displays the major ranks and it'd be over-the-top to describe the full taxonomy in prose. – Joe (talk) 12:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2022

Younes4243 (talk) 17:57, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

میخواهم تحقیقات جدیدی را اضافه نمایم Younes4243 (talk) 17:57, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 18:03, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Why the leading image is perfect

I saw that there was a lot of discussion and arguments over what image should be used to represent humans. But I wanna thank whoever chose the current one because I think it’s perfect

• It shows a man and a woman, which is a good representation of humanity. They’re both standing, which is something that separates humans from animals

• The background behind them is a mix of natural and man made landscapes, which demonstrates our two-way interaction with nature. The way they’re standing in front of the huge hill also kind of evokes how humans have dominated nature

• They’re rural smallholding farmers (i.e. peasants), which is the most common occupation for all humans in history. Even today, peasants still feed the world. I was shocked to see many people objecting to the picture because the couple is rural and poor, as if that makes them any less human.

• Their clothes, the man’s dress shirt and the woman’s blouse (?), have been standard for the past 100 years or so, and are worn all over the world.

• They show a variety of emotion.

• Like most people in the world, they’re not in a developed country. Knowing how wikipedia tends to be biased towards the kind of people who edit it, I’m pleasantly surprised that they understood the fact that middle class, urban, white, western men aren’t the average but the elite. The average human is probably working on a farm or a factory in a developing country to support those kinds of people. I💖平沢唯 (talk) 12:26, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

unexpectedly sweet moment 2.51.99.124 (talk) 11:51, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Summary of human history in the lede incomplete

The second paragraph of the lede is dedicated to human history; however, while it summarises it pretty well until 13,000 years ago, at that point, it inexplicably stops, with all subsequent change being summarised as "forms of governance developed".

Let me explain why I believe that is not only an inadequate summary, but also an inaccurate one.

First of all, from a biological perspective, the defining characteristics of humans as a species are that they are globally dominant over all other species, exert significant influence on Earth's geology and ecosystems, are the only truly cosmopolitan land species with habitats on all of the world's continents, etc. Note that every one of these characteristics is a consequence of human technology ─ not, for the most part, "forms of governance" ─ developed in the last 13,000 years. Therefore, I don't find the position that anything other than the development of advanced technology is the highlight of the last 13,000 years, nor the position that the development of advanced technology can be omitted in an adequate summary of human history, in any way justifiable.

Secondly, one of the focuses of the paragraph is lifestyle. It mentions that, for most of human history, humans were nomadic hunter-gatherers, until the Neolithic revolution, during which they became agricultural permanent settlers. However, "agricultural permanent settler" is not an apt description of most (74%) of the human population. Therefore, the fact that no subsequent lifestyle changes were specified renders the summary at best misleading, and at worst factually inaccurate.

A while ago, to fix these issues, I tried making this edit. Admittedly, it still doesn't fix issue #1 entirely, but it at least addresses issue #2. Unfortunately, Joe Roe swiftly reverted the edit by claiming it wasn't reflective of the History section of the article (which I still believe it was); moreover, instead of correcting whatever he felt was wrong with the edit (as I kindly requested), he simply left the obviously inadequate status quo without any explanation. He did, however, recommend that I bring the issue up on the talk page, which I'm doing now. Again, if people don't like my version and want to propose their own, I more than encourage them to do so; however, I am adamant that the issues that I described are ones that desperately need fixing.

Rhosnes (talk) 06:03, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Here is perhaps a better version:

Although some scientists equate the term humans with all members of the genus Homo, in common usage it generally refers to Homo sapiens, the only extant member. Anatomically modern humans emerged around 300,000 years ago in Africa, evolving from Homo heidelbergensis or a similar species and migrating out of Africa, gradually replacing or interbreeding with local populations of archaic humans. For most of history, all humans were nomadic hunter-gatherers. Humans began exhibiting behavioral modernity about 160,000-60,000 years ago. The Neolithic Revolution, which began in Southwest Asia around 13,000 years ago (and separately in a few other places), saw the emergence of agriculture and permanent human settlement. Since then, continual sociocultural evolution and improvements in tools have been constantly altering the human lifestyle; around 250 years ago, most of human society became industrialised, and since the late 20th century, there has been a continuous shift towards an information society. These developments have facilitated rapid population growth, with the global population expanding to over 7.9 billion as of March 2022, and the resultant advanced technology has made humans a significant influence on Earth's geology and ecosystems.

Rhosnes (talk) 06:20, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Neither the History section as it stands nor its sources support the single-minded emphasis on technological change expessed in your BOLD proposals for the lead. Inadequate as the status quo might be, its brief discussion of "forms of governance" is much closer to a distillation of what the History section actually contains than are any of your proposals. If you believe that the History section emphasises politics too much rather than technology or demography (for example), the section would need to be "fixed" (and consensus obtained) prior to changing the lead section, IMO. Newimpartial (talk) 13:13, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

@Newimpartial: That sounds like a very, very long process that I don't have enough time to engage in. Is there really no other way to fix the obviously flawed and unfinished lede? Rhosnes (talk) 21:48, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Not per WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY; no. Newimpartial (talk) 22:00, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough. Until then, I wish you and my fellow Wikipedians a good harvesting season and crop yield which, according to the lede, we'll all need as we are all still agricultural settlers! Rhosnes (talk) 08:31, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

The lead does not describe anybody as a settler. It implies that most people today are not hunter-gatherers but live in societies based on agricultural economies, which is true and does not mean that they are literally farmers by profession. The lead is by far the most important and most-read part of an article so yes, it's generally a good idea to leave it to people who have the time to read sources (and the rest of the article). – Joe (talk) 08:49, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "agricultural economies", but, as I backed up earlier, the global economy is for the most part not agricultural. Of course, an even smaller percentage of the global human population are literally farmers by profession, but I don't see how that's relevant.

"...yes, it's generally a good idea to leave it to people who have the time to read sources (and the rest of the article)" Assuming you have basic reading comprehension skills, you know I never claimed to not have enough time to do either of these things, so again, not sure what you're trying to achieve by saying this. In case this wasn't clear enough, of course I have enough time to both read the sources and the rest of the article (both of which I have already done). Rhosnes (talk) 16:43, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

if your food was grown on a farm, you live in an agricultural society Dunkleosteus77 (talk) 19:08, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Please keep in mind the context of the paragraph, which focuses on lifestyle. From a lifestyle perspective, if most people around don't spend a significant portion of their lives doing something related to agriculture, then you don't live in an agricultural society.

Moreover, Joe specifically used the phrase "agricultural economies", and applying that phrase to modern society is, in my understanding, provably fallacious. Rhosnes (talk) 01:07, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

What makes a human a human vs a chimp a chimp?

I think more info would be nice to know what makes a human a human and eg a chimp a chimp. If all humans contain 99.9% the same DNA, and chimps contain 98.8% the same DNA as a human - then why is the 0.01% difference between humans still make another human a human but 1.1% difference between chimps not a human? If we both are from the same ancestors then it makes sense that 2 humans from the same parents with a slightly different DNA one should also not necessarily be human. Is there a specific HUMAN DNA pair that if present makes one a human and if absent we are not and it just happens chimps dont have it? Or is it just a category so we don't have chimps getting angry because we might not like them to get social services or drivers licences? Remember there are humans that are at the mental level of a chimp, are they chimps? There are humans with the aggressional behaviors of a chimp, ate they chimps? Someone must know very specifically what is the difference in DNA that triggers the classification between human and chimp so it can be added to this article?120.21.145.173 (talk) 15:20, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

You are forgetting that we don't start off as DNA, we start off as eggs and spermatozoa, a human egg and a human sperm and that we spend 9 months in a human womb with mum's blood (with all its hormones and nutrients) circulating in our bodies. To assume that the only differences between chimps, bonobos and humans is a just a short sequence of DNA is a gross-oversimplification. See Developmental biology. Graham Beards (talk) 15:35, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

As someone who is interested in the fact supposedly humans and chimps have the same ancestors I think elaboration on the topic of what makes chimps not humans is very relevant. 120.21.145.173 (talk) 06:53, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

See Human evolution#Divergence of the human clade from other great apes and note that Wikipedia is not a forum.Graham Beards (talk) 08:35, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Proposed revision to the section about the transition from Antiquity to the Middle Ages

I think the section regarding the transition from Antiquity to the Middle Ages in Europe uses a very antiquated and oversimplified description of the transition in Europe to the Middle Ages. I propose the following edit:

Following several devastating events in the period known as the End of Antiquity (c. 450-750 CE), which included the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476, the Plague of Justinian, the apocalyptic Byzantine-Sassanid War, and the subsequent Rise of Islam, Europe entered the Middle Ages.[41] During this period, Christianity became the predominant religion, with the Catholic Church providing centralized authority and education to the various medieval states of Western Europe, whereas the Byzantine Empire with its capital at Constantinople would continue as the leading authority in the Near East

Basically, the issue I have with the current description is that it only focuses on Western Europe and the Catholic Church, which negates a big part of the history of the era, particularly that of Byzantium. You can't really make a serious summary of the era unless you state what happened in the East.

Ambarenya13 (talk) 18:46, 3 November 2022 (UTC)