User talk:Robinlewisadams 1

Welcome!

Hello, Robinlewisadams 1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you created or edited was Draft:Robin Adams (musician), which appears to be an article about yourself. Creating an autobiography is a common mistake made by new Wikipedians—as this is an encyclopedia, we wouldn't expect to have an article about every contributor. We require individuals to meet Wikipedia's definition of a notable person to accept articles about them.

Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Rusalkii (talk) 00:42, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Rusalkii,

Thank you for your response to my article and for your advice.

I have had somebody write the article with me and have simply worked with them to create the article. I am a musician who has officially released five commercial albums.

Can you let me know if the information we have provided in the article is worthy of the standards of a notable person and if not, what is missing?

Best,

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 01:47, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

May be best to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography and they may be able to assess it? Gryllida (talk, e-mail) 03:51, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Generally speaking, someone else writing the article for you also has a conflict of interest, in the same way you would writing abut yourself. Skimming yours now, it looks borderline to me. If you could add a couple more reviews of the music or newspaper articles primarily about Robin Adams' music, I think that would be good on that front. Tone is a bit promotional ("critically acclaimed" with no source and no critics cited? "performed with many well known musicians"? etc) and it would be good to tone that down. Rusalkii (talk) 08:51, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

I would encourage you to be aware of the autobiography policy and about how an article about yourself is not necessarily a good thing. I would concur with Rusalkii's assessment of the draft. 331dot (talk) 10:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi there,

I appreciate this advice. This is not Robin but the person who has written the article. I asked Robin to be part of this process for access to more of his details. We set up the wiki profile together, hence the use of his name and email address. There are many fans and music journalists who have suggested Robin should be on wikipedia. I have updated the article to include more press.

I have seen quite a few wikipedia articles with much less media references and verifiable links with other established artists than Robin.

Should I perhaps suggest to the people who have an interest in his music to submit an article on him instead?

Many thanks,

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 10:45, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Please read other stuff exists. The existence of other articles has no bearing on this one, each is judged on its own merits. It could be that these other articles are also inappropriate, but simply not addressed yet. As this is a volunteer project where people do what they can when they can, it is possible for inappropriate articles to get by us. We can only address what we know about. If you want to use other articles as a model or example, use those classified as good articles, which have been vetted by the community. If you would like to help us, you are welcome to identify these other articles you have seen for possible action. We could use the help.

Group/joint accounts are not permitted; each account is for the exclusive use of a single person who may not give others access. Mr. Adams will need to create his own account for his exclusive use should he wish to edit. You will also need to rename this account as you should not use his name as your username. Please make a request at Special:GlobalRenameRequest or WP:CHUS to rename this account. The specific email address you attach to an account is not relevant, no one but you knows which email address it is.

You are welcome to continue to work on and submit a draft for review, that is exactly how editors with a conflict of interest should contribute in the area of their conflict. If you ask others to do so, that just transfers the conflict to them. Please read WP:COI. If you are compensated in any manner(not just money or even anything tangible) by Mr. Adams, the Terms of Use require you to make a formal paid editing disclosure. 331dot (talk) 12:22, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi 331DOT,

Many thanks for your suggestions. I appreciate you sharing the classified good examples. I have applied to change the account to my own name. I am not compensated in any way by Mr. Adams. Your input is much appreciated.

Many thanks

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 13:39, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Robinlewisadams 1, I just declined the draft then noticed this discussion. I note above you refer to a "wiki profile". There is no such thing. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a social media site and a Wikipedia article should summarize what secondary, independent reliable sources have written about a subject. What he or those associated with him have written, published or said are not independent sources so should not be used (PR, interviews, the record label, etc.). Also, is this music? does not appear to be a reliable source so I would not use that site either (no evidence of editorial oversight, etc.). What I suggest is starting with articles about his albums first. Be Gone has one Pitchfork review which is a good start. A couple more reviews from reputable sources would meet notability for the album. See WP:WikiProject Albums/Sources to get an idea of acceptable sources and WP:NALBUM for the notability guideline. Just be sure to only summarize what reliable sources state, not your or Adams' own knowledge. S0091 (talk) 18:49, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi there,

Thank you for your the information. I notice on the list of reliable media sources that Q is listed. Robin received a review from Q in 2011 but this was before all reviews were published online. Do you have any advice on how one would reference a review which is not available online but rather through physical publication?

Also, to clarify, is any album mentioned in a wikipedia article, required to provide more than one review as a reference?

Many thanks

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 21:41, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Sources do not need to be available online but you need to be able to provide the pertinent information so anyone could find it, such as author, title of article, name of publication (Q), page number(s), etc. See WP:CITE (or WP:ERB may be easier to follow) and note there is not much (if any) difference between news vs. magazine so using the "news" citation template is sufficient (i.e. cite news). And no, to mention an album does not require multiple sources but an article about an album requires multiple, which is what I am suggesting. Think of this way, if his work is not notable (meaning no Wikipedia articles about his music), then how can he, the musician, be notable? So my suggestion is to, at least for now, put aside an article about him and focus on an article about his music (i.e. an album or two, given there is enough coverage about any of his albums). S0091 (talk) 22:10, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi S0091,

As you suggested, an article has been created on Wikipedia that refers to one of the albums Robin worked on and released: Refugee. The article was published successfully.

There are now two articles on Wikipedia that mention the work of Robin Adams. All things in this article are not of a promotional nature and the reason we have endeavoured to write an article about Robin and his career on Wikipedia is because Robin has contributed significantly in his line of profession.

Given that he created Refugee (Various artists) and is mentioned in the article as the creator of a significant project worthy of note, it makes sense that Wikipedia would include an article on him.

Many thanks,

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 17:59, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Are you affiliated with User:Mia Kokkoni? S0091 (talk) 18:24, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

My name is Chester. I was the manager of his late father's band String Driven Thing.

As we have established and as you already know, I am affiliated with Robin.

Mia Kokkoni is just my user name for the other account.

If this is a mistake, I apologise for the confusion.

I started editing from a separate account to save other editors being concerned about

autobiographical issues, since my name change for Chester Studzinski hasn't yet been accepted.

This was per your advice that I should have more than one source on wikipedia

referencing the work of Robin Adams. I was under the impression, given that

you continued to advise on how I might have the article published, that if I followed your advice, I would

have taken steps towards having the article about Robin Adams successfully published.

Do you have any further advice on how the article may be published?

I want to add that I mean no harm or wish any detriment to Wikipedia. It is an incredible tool.

Despite my affiliation with Robin, I genuinely would not have took the time to create a Wikipedia article

about his career, had I thought he was not a notable figure in the Scottish music scene.

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 19:03, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

First and foremost, I do not think you mean harm at all. You have been transparent throughout this process which is appreciated. Please keep it to one account though, otherwise it is sockpuppetry (bad) which is not your intent and suggest you abandon Mia given most of your edits are under this account. I had noticed Draft:Robin Adams (Scottish musician) pop up in the review list and I assumed it was you but saw this other user name which is why I asked. I figured there had to be some kind of relation. Also, if you do not want your real name posted here, let me know and I will request to have it oversighted (removed from anyone's view except a very few select editors with the "oversight permission"). I take privacy seriously and there is no need for your real name. Obviously S0091 is not my name :) but some folks are fine using their real name. Its up to you.

Now for the "business" at hand. Great job with Refugee (Various Artists)! As for the pending draft, Draft:Robin Adams (Scottish musician), I will leave it to another reviewer. I find fresh eyes are best but I will do some formatting cleanup on it for you. S0091 (talk) 20:15, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi S0091,

I appreciate all the help. Many thanks for your contribution to the article.

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 20:28, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi again! I reverted your submission of Draft:Robin Adams (musician) because Draft:Robin Adams (Scottish musician) is already pending review. Only one variation of a draft should be submitted for review. You can make any improvements to Draft:Robin Adams (Scottish musician). S0091 (talk) 21:06, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks S0091,

Sorry to bother you again. I wonder should I respond to your message to Mia account regarding affiliation with subject of article?

Another editor may think it was odd that I didn't respond.

Best

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 21:22, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

You can post a statement there under this account on the Mia talk page that stating due to misunderstanding your created the Mia account which you will no longer use. I have also added a clarifying comment to Draft:Robin Adams (Scottish musician) for other reviewers so hopefully no one else will think anything suspicious. Are you ok with me changing submitter to this user name instead of Mia? That way any messages about the draft will come here instead of there. 21:30, 26 November 2022 (UTC) S0091 (talk) 21:30, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

It may be better to use the initial article I wrote as I attained copyright confirmation for the attached image. If using the (scottish musician) article, I may have to go through that process again, which required asking the photographer to send a message to wikipedia giving permission to use the photograph.

Many thanks

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 21:43, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

The photo is its own file separate from a draft or article so the copyright will follow (i.e. you can use the same image multiple places). If there is other reasons you want to use the other draft, I can try some things to see if I can make that happen. See why multiple accounts is a bad idea. :) S0091 (talk) 21:51, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

I see what you mean.

I have copied that photo and info table over no problem.

Yes if you'd like to switch both the Refugee(Various Artists) and Robin Adams (Scottish Musician) Articles under this account that would be great.

May I ask that you leave a quick summary of the progress we have made in our exchange?

I'm a little concerned that the huge backlog of messages me be off-putting for an editor to sift through

to understand the issues.

Many thanks

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 22:12, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

First, never login into the User:Mia Kokkoni account again. You edited under that account just now which is a big no-no. If you do it again, I will request the Mia Kokkoni account be blocked to avoid any additional confusion than what has already been caused. (I might do it anyway just to be safe). The next reviewer is not going to sift through anything other than what is presented in the draft as it has to stand on its own with no other considerations. S0091 (talk) 22:22, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Apologies. I won’t sign into that account. Will I be credited for the Refugee album page? Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 22:47, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Arbitrary break

Well, both accounts are you so yes, you will be credited but not this account. Nor will Draft:Robin Adams (Scottish musician) as it was created by Mia Kokkoni. The creator cannot be changed but I did go ahead and change the submitter to this account so any further AfC comments/notices should come here. S0091 (talk) 22:55, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

So, is it not beneficial for me as an editor to have a successfully published article on my account, in which case it might’ve be better to shut down this account and keep Mia on? Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 22:59, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

You can link the two by posting on note on this User page stating you edited under User:Mia Kokkoni. Many editors here start as either an IP (no account) or under a different account to which they lost the password, etc. so they just state so on their User page and link the articles created under those. And Mia is now blocked anyway. S0091 (talk) 23:05, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi there,

As you can see, sadly the article has been declined "per S0091's comments" which is what I was concerned about instead of the article being judged on its own strength.

~~~~ Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 10:01, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Robin Adams (musician) (November 25)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by S0091 was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Robin Adams (musician) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

S0091 (talk) 18:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Robinlewisadams 1! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! S0091 (talk) 18:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Robin Adams (musician) (November 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Robin Adams (musician) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 15:51, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello,

I am wondering if you could be specific which sources are not acceptable because they apparently mention the article subject in passing?

The Clash article is not an interview but a premiere of a song the subject released. This is a source directly related tot he subject.

Q Magazine source is a direct review of the subject's work. If you require evidence of this review since it is a physical publication,

this can be provided.

The Skinny source is a direct review of the subject's work

The List source is a direct review of the subjects work.

Folk Radio source is a direct review of the subjects work

Also two existing wikipedia articles mentioning the subject of the article.

Also it would be helpful if you could refer to what name dropping?

How many sources are necessary?

Robinlewisadams 1 (talk) 16:01, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Robin Adams (musician) has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Robin Adams (musician). Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 16:10, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Robin Adams (musician) (November 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by FormalDude was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Robin Adams (musician) and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

FormalDude (talk) 21:41, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi Formaldude,

Would you please reference exactly what sources do not apply to the article subject directly.

Many thanks,

03:46, 28 November 2022 (UTC) 2A02:C7C:D00A:8700:752A:B8C9:5BD8:7C9A (talk) 03:46, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

I didn't say any sources do not apply to the article subject directly. FormalDude (talk) 05:50, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

In order to have the article published, editors need clear advice on the reason the article has failed to be published.

On this article, the reason is: This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondarysources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of music-related topics).

Please be more specific so that the issue may be addressed.

Many thanks

2A02:C7C:D00A:8700:752A:B8C9:5BD8:7C9A (talk) 09:10, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Please log in before editing thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 10:21, 28 November 2022 (UTC)