Talk:Charlemagne

Correct Original Name Still Missing

The original name, in Latin letters something like "Carl", "Karol", "Charol", or further latinized "Karolus Magnus", is still missing. Instead: "Charles (the Great)", which is completely ahistorical, as both, modern name "Charles", as well as the delayed creation "Charlemagne", are kind of mutiliated dog latin versions of a name, contemporary Gallo-Roman clergy men were unable to spell in Latin letters and unable to pronounce adequately. From 800 A.D. when "Karolus Rex" was crowned in Rome, it took another 800 years to establish "Académie Francaise" which started in the year 1600 A. D. to create a language that lead to what we now know as "modern French". 88.66.65.116 (talk) 11:58, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

The original name is in the article (if you look at notes a and b after "Charles the Great" in the lede. If you want to change anything you'll need to provide sources, not just say stuff. Ichthyovenator (talk) 13:28, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

What I understand he is trying to tell you: Latin-script letters do not reflect the original pronunciation. This is true. And: Today's names like "Charles" would not have been understood by their supposed name carriers in that time. That's a fact. 136.219.16.35 (talk) 12:50, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes but the modern names Charles I, Charles the Great and Charlemagne obviously have to be the most prominent since that is what people call him today. The two notes after "Charles the Great" clarify more contemporary names; note A gives the Latin Karolus or Carolus, note B gives the Frankish Keril, Karil or Karal. Ichthyovenator (talk) 16:22, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Well the text says "He was named Charles in French and English, Carolus in Latin, after his grandfather, Charles Martel". This might be read as indication that he had been named such during his life span. But obviously, these names and other names had been given centuries after his death. So there should be a hint, that modern names were given by historians way after his death. 136.219.16.35 (talk) 09:25, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Should not the Frankish name also be given in the name section, along with the English, French, and Latin? He WAS, after all, Frankish, was he not? Or was Gallo-Romance his native tongue, and King of the Franks merely his title? Firejuggler86 (talk) 07:46, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

I'd also like to recommend mentioning the original Frankish name, as Frankish was his native tongue and that of his parents, relatives and most of his closest friends. 188.104.34.212 (talk) 21:23, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

In fact, his name was not today's "Charles" - especially not regarding modern English version with a pronounciation falsely including an "s" or "z" sound. Modern French "Charles" is a little bit closer to the original name, but doesn't match it either. 188.99.27.209 (talk) 09:11, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

There should be some more explanation about his Frankish name und the original pronunciation... 188.104.33.45 (talk) 14:22, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Hey, does anyone want to add in anything about the broadway play Pippin?

It is about Charlemagne's eldest son, Pippin, as well as his grandmother, Bertha, as well as other people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doglover truthfinder (talk • contribs) 00:35, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Charlemagne's Children

I am myself aware of two legends surrounding Charlemagne's children:

One involves a knight, D'Eon de Hambys, who - while on the way to Charlemagne's court - attacked and killed a man who attacked him and who, he later discovers, was one of Charlemagne's sons. He is sent by Charlemagne to acquire the Saracen King's teeth and beard.

A second legend involves a girl who falls in love with a knight she is later separated from for years. She is found by Charlemagne and taken to Paris, a city that she recognizes. It is then revealed that she is the missing daughter of Charlemagne, who has been searching for her for years. Taken to his court, she escapes disguised as a bard and then sings of her life to the knight, who revealed that he has never stopped searching for her and still loves her. She then tells him who she is and they marry. In the lay in which this story is recounted, she is referred to only as Maite ("Maiden" in Old French, apparently).Glammazon (talk) 15:10, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Oh those are all nonesense stories. Karl as his kids had old german names. Those are probably stories made up hundreds and hundreds of years later to fit some french narrative. 178.24.247.1 (talk) 23:42, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Order introduction box

Why is it backward? He was first King of the Franks then of the Lombard then Emperor, but it is displayed the other way around, makes no sense to display it like that Esteban Outeiral Dias (talk) 14:49, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Well I fixed it and used the chronological order since there's absolutely no reason not to use it Esteban Outeiral Dias (talk) 14:56, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

oh and in the middle of the translations for his nickname Charles the Great there was alternative dates which obv have nothing to do there, here's what was removed, if anyone wants to add it anywhere it may belong (not in the name translations..):

2 April 747 – 28 January 814 Esteban Outeiral Dias (talk) 15:04, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Pompous asshole

No offense to the original author of this text, but this isn't written like the average Wikipedia article. It reads like an armchair historian trying to sound knowledgeable. I am working on a small project for uni and found that this page is incredibly weird in some parts.

For example, under Ambiguous High Office: "According to the Life, Pepin died in Paris on 24 September 768, whereupon the kingship passed jointly to his sons, "with divine assent" (divino nutu). The Franks "in general assembly" (generali conventu) gave them both the rank of a king (reges) but "partitioned the whole body of the kingdom equally" (totum regni corpus ex aequo partirentur)."

That sentence could be compressed by 2-4x times and would still keep almost all of its value - and most of the article is written like this. A rewrite banner might be necessary..? Onkoe (talk) 20:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Wives, concubines, and children

In the Wives, concubines, and children section, there is discussion of European nobility tracing their ancestry to Charlemagne. This is silly nonsense. The truth is, everyone in Europe traces their ancestry back to Charlemagne. For the explanation, see: https://www.theguardian.com/science/commentisfree/2015/may/24/business-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford Optimismofthewill (talk) 11:27, 10 December 2022 (UTC)