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Extended confirmed pages

I've almost edited 300 pages so far with my account! After I reach the 500 mark will I instantly be able to edit level 3 security extended confirmed articles or is there more to activating that privilege? Hgh1985 (talk) 00:12, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, once you reach 500 edits and have had your account for 30 days, you will gain extended confirmed user rights allowing them to edit those articles. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 01:01, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Hgh1985, accuracy is really important here on Wikipedia. You have 240 edits, not almost 300 edits. Plus, you have been vandalizing in recent days. If you do not stop vandalizing forever right now, you will never receive extended confirmed status. I hope you take this warning seriously. Cullen328 (talk) 01:30, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Alright, I will stop the "test" edits right now, but with all due respect I still feel like this is a threat, the way you wrote this message. Hgh1985 (talk) 05:37, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Hgh1985, you can try to call your vandalism "tests" all you want but that does not change the fact that you repeatedly tried to damage the encyclopedia, just for the fun of it. Similarly, you can call my entirely legitimate warnings "threats" all you want. None of that changes the fact that I am an administrator, that you have been engaging in disruption, and that I will block you if I see any more bad behavior from you. Is that clear? Cullen328 (talk) 07:01, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Alright Jim, if I stop the disruptive editing permanently and immediately, can you forgive me on a personal level as well? Yes or no Hgh1985 (talk) 12:01, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Time will tell. Cullen328 (talk) 19:54, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

@Hgh1985 Why were you making disruptive edits? What was the purpose? David10244 (talk) 11:21, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

@Hgh1985 You admit the edits were disruptive here. On your Talk page, you dismissed them as accidental (you "could've swore" you undid each of them). Sonething doesn't add up. David10244 (talk) 11:56, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

User:David10244 - In view of the fact that this thread is about obtaining extended confirmed status, they were probably making the disruptive edits in order to game extended confirmed status. It does add up, because they are trying to get their edits to add up to 500. Robert McClenon (talk) 08:36, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon True... David10244 (talk) 10:26, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

wow, nice constructive way to engage someone, sable rattling threats on blocks, and parading your administrator badge @Cullen328, sadly finding this attitude more and more often on wikipedia nice way to welcome newcomers, in the end this trend will wind up into 10-20 guys controlling the whole project Juanriveranava (talk) 03:22, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Juanriveranava. I guess that you think that an administrator should just refrain from commenting when an editor with a very recent history of overt vandalism asks about advanced permissions. Despite your speculative observations, Wikipedia remains a top ten website worldwide, because of its clearly productive policies and guidelines. Also, there are about 450 active administrators, not 10 to 20. And there are far more active, highly productive editors than that who provide input on issues like this. If we turn Wikipedia over to vandals, it will rapidly devolve into a steaming pile of crap. I will then resign, and you can become an administrator of garbage. Cullen328 (talk) 03:45, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

User:Juanriveranava - Some editors read the guideline not to bite the new editors a little too expansively, and that appears to be what you have done. It means not to bite new good-faith editors, but User:Cullen328 was biting a new editor who had made some bad-faith edits. I am aware that reasonable editors can disagree as to how severely editors who engage in irresponsible play should be warned. I thought that the warning was appropriate. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

User:Cullen328 - I think that you lost your temper in biting a newbie, but I mean User:Juanriveranava. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Cullen328 Don't even hint that actions like theirs would leave them in charge, and you not here...

I wish they would respond to my "why" question but I suppose there is no way to explain that. I believe @Robert McClenon is right, but I wanted to hear something from Hgh1985. He or she hasn't posted since their question at your Talk page (Cullen) on the 28th. Maybe they left. David10244 (talk) 09:02, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

User:David10244 - They have probably abandoned that account and are trying to game extended-confirmed status with a different account. Maybe they have already been working three or four accounts. When you say that there may be no way to explain it, you mean that there may be no good-faith explanation. Robert McClenon (talk) 09:26, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon Yes, that's what I meant. David10244 (talk) 13:06, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Holy shit this was just a question my bad, I didn't realize I would cause such a huge controversy Hgh1985 (talk) 21:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

No @Cullen328, sorry but now you're overstating me, and making speculative observations (speaking of) , what I meant is if you're so upset with said editor behaviour or because you spilled your coffee on the way back home does not grant you the right to mistreat anybody like that even if you co-founded the project or own the servers, being such a seasoned productive administrator I would expect more restraint and a didactic and assistance focused response, but thank you for showing me what kind of things to expect from the more veteran editors like you, I'll glady preside over crap if that means being able to engage in constructive dialogue, @Robert McClenon, I understand the guideline, but I tend to believe vandals usually don't ask for permission or guidance from administrators, if that doesn't shows a hint of good faith, then well I can have nothing else to say. @Cullen328 response wasn't called for, but hey you're free to excercise your almighty banning powers on me if that makes you feel better. 240 edits for non retirees, people like me with a day job that doesn't have much time to spare shows a little commitment at least, what's the whole point of allowing anyone to participate on editions if not, that response is counterintuitive to said policies and guidlines, and the defensive stance is counter productive. Juanriveranava (talk) 22:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Warning an editor who has been vandalizing is not mistreatment. I have no reason to block you, Juanriveranava. Feel free to insult me all you want. I have thick skin. I do not block people to feel better. I block people only to protect the encyclopedia from disruption. Cullen328 (talk) 23:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

if you feel insulted by my comment, just thing how yours seem to a newcomer entering the teahouse there might be 1 or 2 things you might need to work on yourself jim, one of them is resilience to critic, now you're showing a non productive behaviour and I won't engage in this with you anymore, I made my point clear. have a nice day. Juanriveranava (talk) 23:10, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Suspicious Quesions

I have known that when an editor asks about when an article that they have created will show up on Google searches, they are almost certainly a conflict of interest editor who is trying to game the system of reviewing and indexing and New Page Patrol. I think that we have identified another area of questions that should be cause for concern, that if a new editor asks about extended-confirmed status, they are likely to be trying to game extended-confirmed status. I think that experienced editors should be aware that we do not need to assume good faith in these cases. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:24, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

help

can someone put this [1] template on my userpage? i want it the same size place etc as on the template page Allaoii ^talk 21:02, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello Allaoii and welcome to the Teahouse. Copy the following code to the top of your user page: <div style="position: absolute; top: {{{top|3.5}}}em; width: {{{size|150}}}px; right: {{{right|2}}}em;">[[File:Cabal approved.svg|{{{size|150}}}px|right|link={{{link|WP:TINC}}}|alt=There is no Cabal]]</div> ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 21:59, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

i was hoping to maybe get it over where my topicons are, what do i need to put in for that? Allaoii ^talk 22:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

@Allaoii: Got it. {{Top icon|imagename = Cabal approved.svg|wikilink = WP:TINC|width = 50|height = 50}} I’ve set the image size at 50x50 pixels, but if that’s too large or too small, feel free to toy with the numbers. ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 22:20, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

no i dont want it as a topicon, i want it over where my topicons are, as in i want it to look like its covering my topicons but the topicons are still legible Allaoii ^talk 22:25, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

@Allaoii I see what you mean. Try: {{tinc| size = 50| right = 3.5| top = 1| link =WP:TINC}} ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 22:31, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

still not working, can you maybe help me to get it like it is in the template? Allaoii ^talk 23:07, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

@Allaoii Something like this {{tinc|size = 125|right = 1.5|top = 0.5|link =WP:TINC}} might work. I changed the size of the image, as well as the ‘right’ and ‘top’ parameters, so that it appears over the topicons. Let me know what you think; I’d be happy to adjust it further if needed. ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 00:15, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

its still not working, is there a way i can let you edit my userpage so you can try things out there? Allaoii ^talk 02:37, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

@Allaoii Of course! ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 02:56, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

it still doesnt work, and please don't move things around uneceraly Allaoii ^talk 03:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

@Allaoii Which part isn't working? Also, my apologies for that. ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 19:30, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

it isnt over the topicons, could you maybe help me to get it exactly as it is in the template page? Allaoii ^talk 20:25, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

@Allaoii, I’m unsure of what you mean by ‘over’. Do you mean to say that the template should be on top of your topicons (covering them, like this), or in the space above them (like this line)? ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 21:29, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

it should be covering them, like it is in the template page, well if it had topicons. Allaoii ^talk 18:38, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

@Allaoii Hmm, this is a tricky one. When I edited your user page, it appeared on my end the way you’ve described it, with the template covering the topicons. Are you, by any chance, on a phone or a tablet? Sometimes templates don’t render properly for these editors. ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 20:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

no im on a chromebook Allaoii ^talk 20:12, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

maybe its something on your end? what are you using? Allaoii ^talk 20:13, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

@Allaoii I mostly use an iPad Pro, which is what I’m on right now, but I use the desktop version (en.wikipedia.org, not en.m.wikipedia.org). ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 20:23, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

ah its your end, you said that sometimes tablet users dont render properly, since im on a chromebook, maybe the crossover is messy. by the way, on my end it has the template on just below the topicons. Allaoii ^talk 22:21, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Allaoii Makes sense. What I’d do from here is to fiddle with the template for a bit. If you change the numbers in the parameters ‘right’ and ‘top’, it’ll move the template around. The numbers that rendered it properly for me aren’t the same for you, so only you can decide what works. ◇HelenDegenerate◆ 19:44, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

i dont know how to work it so maybe ill ask my mentor Allaoii ^talk 21:03, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Making articles

Ok, I have one problem: I want to create an article about the alolan tapu pokemon, but I don't know how! Please help me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.40.1.167 (talk) 04:21, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello, IP editor. Writing an acceptable new Wikipedia article for the first time is a challenging task that requires a considerable amount of study and practice. If you have never played music before, I do not think that you would expect to play a public lead guitar solo they day after you bought your first guitar, would you? So, I suggest that you spend some time studying Wikipedia's Policies and guidelines, and improving existing articles. Read and study Your first article until you understand it completely. Cullen328 (talk) 04:58, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Does it need its own WP article or can it be included in another existing article. Some "new" articles have come out of existing articles that have for whatever reason been sectioned off. Search pokemon in WP and see if what you want can be placed in an existing article. If others find that a new article is neede3ed then you can pow wow on it. The important thing is not that you are the author of an article but that you have contributed. Use what you find as your temporary template and go from there. There are plenty of other contributors in WP that will advise if you have gone off track. And if you think you are going off track then come on back to the Teahouse for some guidance.2603:8000:D300:D0F:A4A9:1E1:30A5:4340 (talk) 07:14, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

hi, its me again, my question is how do i even create the article draft? that is the part i dont know and im sure there isnt an article on it yet — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.193.44.202 (talk) 07:07, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

There are some Pokémon with their own articles, but I can't see any articles about specific groups as you're suggesting. The Pokémon probably aren't notable enough to warrant their own article (see Wikipedia:Pokémon_test). You could ask at the Pokémon WikiProject about this specific issue, and I'm sure they'd appreciate your help with a lot of other work, if you're interested. HerrWaus (talk) 09:53, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

How to make the links vanish in the final.

I have to quote a lot of hyper links, I give the links, it appears on the page with an icon which when clicked gives the image. I need only the icon. The link can vanish. For that what to do? Sreejit TK Ramchand (talk) 11:29, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. Regarding the draft in your sandbox, you should not be including hyperlinks to images. Before you do anything else please read and understand WP:COI, WP:RS, and Wikipedia:Wikimedia Commons which tells you how to embed a Wikimedia Commons image into an article. I also strongly suggest you remove the picture of your identiy card from your talk page. It proves absolutely nothing and enables anyone in the world to use it for their own purpose. Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:05, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, pinging @Sreejit TK Ramchand, you should REMOVE the image of your identity card from your Talk page as Shantavira recommends. Should one of us editors do that for safety? David10244 (talk) 12:46, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

You do it for me. Thanks a lot. I am an old fellow aged 91. I have my own limitations. Further I do not know how to remove it. thanks. Sreejit TK Ramchand (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

I request some one to come forward to create the article BHARATHI, The New Script. I am not boasting myself. It is a real fact that BHARATHI is a ery good script. Once you go through its details you will understand it. What I want to see is that it should not be lost to the world. It is for that I am trying to create this article. My age 91 is not permitting me to toil too much for that. Will kindly someone come forward to take up the job. I shall supply all the details and all the images. The images are already uploaded to Wikimedia. I shall give all the links too. Kindly contact me who can do the job. Thanking you in anticipation. Sreejit TK Ramchand (talk) 13:11, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

As you were told when you asked this question last week, There has been a Wikipedia article about the script since October this year. It is at Bharati Script and of course you can add information there provided you can cite reliable sources for it. ColinFine (talk) 18:29, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

I have moved that article to Bharati script, and added it to the disambiguation page Bharati. ColinFine (talk) 18:37, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Dear MR. Colin,

That one Bharati Script is entirely different. The one I am indulged is Bharathi Script. Kindly notice the Difference in spelling. There is proof for the fact that Bharathi script was there in 1995. But Bharati script was created only in 2017. Bharati is a constructed script in their words. But, Bharathi Script in an invented script.

Thanking you:

Sincerely yours,

Ramchand Sreejit TK Ramchand (talk) 04:19, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Sreejit TK Ramchand It seems that I was confused because of the similarity of names and purposes of these scripts. You want to describe Bharathi script and have started a draft about it at User:Sreejit TK Ramchand/sandbox, declaring on your User page that you have a conflict of interest since you invented the script. I have to point out that Wikipedia cannot be used to describe things that have not already been featured in reliable sources and as far as I can ascertain there is no published material on your script except what you have uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. IF you can provide references to externally published descriptions of the script and independent commentary about it then there could perhaps be an article written based on those sources. Otherwise you are wasting your time as Wikipedia cannot host such material. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:19, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

My Dear Mike Turnbull,

Thank you for writing. I am not interested saying anything about me. Even I shall avoid my name coming anywhere in the article. My aim is only to save the script from extinction. I am not boasting myself when I say it is a very good script, with a lot of unique features. Once you go through it you will be convinced. I am just trying to do something to save it, so that the world may not loss such a good script. It is in detail available at more than nine sites including Internet archive. You kindly go through its features you will be convinced. I aged 91 is toiling to save it. You kindly help me in whatever ways you can to save it. The script and Font are free for all. Thanking you very much for taking the pain to write to me. Ramchand. Sreejit TK Ramchand (talk) 07:00, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Sreejit TK Ramchand At your request, I have removed the image of your ID card from your Talk page. Wikipedia editors are allowed to remain anonymous if they wish. Even if you use your real name, which is fine to do, you should not post a phone number, your email address, your home address, or any forms of ID here. I know it takes a while to learn all of WP's policies, but this is for your own safety. Thanks. David10244 (talk) 07:59, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Beginning a new article

Once an article has been published, when is it acceptable enough to begin a new article? I have been advised by Cullen328 to not start any new articles. CharlemagneJane (talk) 15:32, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

There is no formal restriction in this regard. However, it is good to learn from one's actions, and the corrections to them, before attempting to repeat. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:35, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

That said, I do agree with User:Cullen328 that perhaps your next efforts should be focused on editing existing articles so as to have a better idea of how good articles are constructed. - UtherSRG (talk) 15:38, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

I am also concerned about your comment on your user page "Being disruptive is my nature" disruptive editors tend not to last very long here. Theroadislong (talk) 15:40, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

I meant to say, "Being disruptive is NOT my nature." I have received conflicting information from Cullen328 and Marchjuly regarding date formats. Marhjuly told me that it is acceptable to use the day month and year format; however, Cullen328 told me that the day month year format is not acceptable and that I needed to clean up my articles before startiing a new one. Who is correct, Marchjuly or Cullen328? Who's advice shall I take? CharlemagneJane (talk) 15:51, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

@CharlemagneJane It depends on the context. See MOS:DATE and links on that page for the full story. In general, when editing existing article we follow the format first used and we try to use a single consistent format within an article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:58, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

CharlemagneJane, I did not say that the other date format was unacceptable. I told you that the month day year format is used in a large majority of articles about US topics, and that abbreviating months in particular is not accepted practice. The software does not recognize month abbreviations, and they are contrary to the Manual of Style. I gave you some specific suggestions to improve your two motorcyclist biographies. If you want to ignore my suggestions, go ahead. Cullen328 (talk) 18:31, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Dear Cullen328, it occurs to me that I am on your bad list but I assure you that I am trying very hard to follow your instructions and take your advice along with others. I have never ignored your suggestions. It is a lot to learn and I wish that I could learn everything a little faster and be more efficient. I just wish that you would be more patient with me and a little bit more gentle in your remarks. Respectfully yours! CharlemagneJane (talk) 22:37, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

@CharlemagneJane: Sometimes it better to simply link to a discussion when trying to quote others, which in this case is Talk:Ray Byars#Date format, instead of trying to paraphrase or summarize what they posted. Cullen328 and I were posting pretty much the same thing, only in different ways. If you take another look at what I posted, you'll see that I did mention in some cases one format may be preferred over the other, and Cullen328 was just expanding on that. I also mentioned your abbreviating of the names of months as not being something typically considered OK in Wikipedia articles. Sometimes in posts it's much easier to give a link to more detailed Wikipedia policy or guideline pages than to try and cover all those details in the post. So, when you see blue words in a Wikipedia post or edit summary, it's generally the poster's way of telling you to look at this page for more details because it will explain things better. If you haven't looked at those pages yet, please do because it should clarify things for you. — Marchjuly (talk) 03:36, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

CharlemagneJane, if you were on my "bad list", as you put it, then you would be among the 7492 Wikipedia accounts that I have blocked in the 5-1/2 years that I have been an administrator. But I have not blocked you because I think that you have the potential to be a good editor if you decide to be a generalist editor instead of focusing on the geneology of your family. Just my suggestion. I do not issue instructions to any editor, except to warn them against obviously inappropriate behavior (which does not apply to you). My goal as a Teahouse/Help Desk contributor is to point out and help explain Wikipedia's policies, guidelines, behavioral norms and best practices, in the hope that my input will help new editors write and improve better encyclopedia articles. Cullen328 (talk) 04:02, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I am glad to hear that I am not one of those 7492 others that were on your bad list. As always, I will try my best to follow the guidelines of Wikipedia and follow all your advice along with Marchjuly's and all the other editors that have been helping me. Thanks for believing that I have potential. A few positive words go a long way. CharlemagneJane (talk) 05:02, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I worked on correcting the date formats on both aritcles for Tommy Byars and Ray Byars, but not sure if I got all of them corrected. I keep looking over both articles trying to find more inconsistencies, but I really don't want to touch the articles anymore for fear of messing them up. While editing the dates, I caused other errors and although I fixed some of them, I was unable to fix all of them. I am grateful that someone else fixed them for me. What more do I need to do for these two articles? If there is nothing else for me to do, I would like to move on to something else. CharlemagneJane (talk) 04:07, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Another issue you need to avoid before drafting any more articles. Many (most) of the references you created for the two Byars articles go to GenealogyBank, which asks visitors to create an account in order to see content. This is wrong. Content such as newspaper articles do not need to be available online. Instead, each reference should include the title of an article, the publication, the date, the byline if applicable, the pages, etc. David notMD (talk) 16:18, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I did list the name of the newspapers, titles, dates. Most of the articles do not have authors listed. Should I list the source inline with the text? CharlemagneJane (talk) 16:23, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

One more question: should I remove all of the url links in the references on the Tommy Byars and Ray Byars articles? CharlemagneJane (talk) 05:18, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@CharlemagneJane Yes, that is the implication of @David notMD's comments just above and also below in the next section. He and I are both concerned that GenealogyBank may be hosting copyright material that they are not entitled to. By policy mentioned at WP:COPYVIOEL, Wikipedia does not allow citations to include links to such sites. Also, in this specific case, even if GenealogyBank is not infringing copyright, a reader who clicks on the link you provided does not actually see the content, only a suggestion they should create an account. Your citations are perfectly valid without being instantly available online (see WP:OFFLINE). Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:21, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@CharlemagneJane: This is currently being discussed at Talk:Tommy Byars#Genealogybank; so, I wouldn’t remove any links just yet. Moreover, the fact that the GenealogyBank website requires registration or even a fee doesn’t mean the links can’t be added per WP:PAYWALL. Despite what’s been posted above, it’s not wrong per se to provide links to such websites; inconvenient perhaps, but not wrong. — Marchjuly (talk) 15:12, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Marchjuly, @CharlemagneJane I've looked into this a bit more and it appears that GenealogyBank are a US company, NewsBank Inc, and their terms and conditions, especially section 5, cover copyright. They acknowledge that they host material provided by others and they are licensed to do so. So the use of links are OK, as in any WP:PAYWALL source. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:12, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

So, do I understand that you are saying that I can leave the url links on each reference? CharlemagneJane (talk) 17:50, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@CharlemagneJane: There's an ongoing discussion about this at Talk:Tommy Byars#Genealogybank; so, there's no need to remove any links now. You may, however, be asked to clarify some things about the articles you've been citing, which means it might be a good idea for you to keep track of that discussion. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:52, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull: Yes, that seems to be at least one other person's opinion at WP:ELN#GenealogyBank and it's one of the things being discussed at Talk:Tommy Byars#Genealogybank. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:52, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

This might be a silly question, but how do I keep track of this discussion? Do I wait for the little red alert at the top of my menu or is there a better way to find it, like maybe bookmarking this page? I have not participated in any discussions with the exception of asking new questions and seeing the answers after receiving the alerts, so this might be a new learning curve for me. CharlemagneJane (talk) 04:09, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi CharlemagneJane. You'll only receive a WP:PING notification if someone specifically decides to ping you for some reason, but you can add the article to your watchlist if you want. That way the most recent edits made to it or to its corresponding talk page will appear in your watchlist. You can also just occasionally check the discussion every now and then to see whether any new comments have been made. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:44, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@CharlemagneJane: Assuming that you have the new beta Discussion Tools turned on (at Preferences → Beta features → Discussion tools), you should be able to click on a "Subscribe" button in the top-right of the section you want to keep up on. Every time someone leaves a comment will give you a notification in your at the top of the page. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 08:59, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! CharlemagneJane (talk) 12:29, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

WikiLibrary card

How/where do I apply for and earn the wikilibrary card thing so that I can access some added sources and stuff without needing to pay? That sounds really neat. :) — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 03:33, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Moops. Check out this link and just login. WP:TWL has some more information. Thanks, echidnaLives - talk - edits 03:36, 30 December 2022 (UTC).

TY. :) — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 03:54, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Ah, I thought I needed approval somewhere or something, apparently not so. TY — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 03:56, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Moops: I believe in the past you did have to apply for every individual resource accessible through the library; for the last couple of years every active editor in good standing gets access to the standard bundle which includes a bunch of really useful resources. Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 19:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I can see that now. I find it to be very helpful. TY — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 16:43, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Question about notifying an administrator

I have reported the abuse of rollback by an administrator (Bbb23) to the Administrative action review page, but I'm not able to leave Bbb23 a message on his talk page because it is protected. Is there a way I am able to notify him other than that? Lobster from Maine (talk) 07:06, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Bbb23 has been notified. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:58, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Lobster from Maine, welcome to the teahouse. We could help you notify them, but .... It seemed you has something related to Sockpuppetry Lemonaka (talk) 11:21, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Lobster from Maine: Your signature colours don't comply with the accessibility rules at MOS:CONTRAST, so you'll need to change them, please. You can see the contrast test results here. XAM2175 ^(T) 02:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Lobster from Maine Your new signature, shown at your Talk page, is MUCH better. My eyes thank you. David10244 (talk) 08:10, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Reverting Edits 2

When I try to revert/undo an edit, I get the "The edit could not be undone because it does not exist or was deleted" error message. My suspicion is that it should have said a merge conflict prevented the undo from happening.

Googling this, I found: Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive_1173#Reverting_Edits

Problem is, the resulting Phabricator task T325019 is closed as resolved. But it's still happening. Maybe this isn't the same cause? Is this the same error or another one? In both cases, other editors have made edits after the edit I want to undo, which is why I suspect I'm too getting the wrong error message.

Here are two reverts I couldn't undo, where I get the above-mentioned error message: [2] [3]

CapnZapp (talk) 13:14, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello CapnZapp. I also tried to undo those edits and got the same notice ("The edit could not be undone because it does not exist or was deleted") which still does not seem appropriate for the situation. As I rather hate Phabricator, I'm pinging @Suffusion of Yellow who opened a report at Phabricator T325019, plus @MatmaRex who closed it as 'resolved'. It certainly doesn't seem to have been resolved. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 15:31, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

The bug has been fixed in the software, but the new version including the fix hasn't been deployed yet to Wikimedia wikis. It will be deployed next week, reaching English Wikipedia on Thursday, 5 January. It is unusually delayed because scheduled deployments were paused around the holidays. Sorry I didn't explain that when closing the task, I tend to only do it when the bug has been reported (or fixed) by someone unfamiliar with the process, and I didn't think anyone else would be interested in this issue. For future reference, you can look for the action by ReleaseTaggerBot on the Phabricator task to indicate when the changes will be deployed, in this case the week of 2023-01-02 (see WP:THURSDAY for details about the schedule). Matma Rex talk 20:35, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, Matma Rex, for taking the trouble to explain this. I wasn't aware one could look up a deployment date, which is helpful to us guys here at the Teahouse. Much appreciated! Nick Moyes (talk) 15:42, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Just pinging @CapnZapp to ensure they're notified of this helpful answer. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:45, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Non-inclusion

Hi all - I have edited my draft, "Jimmy Ryan (guitarist)," several times and yet it keeps being rejected as non-relevant or not of interest, or not famous enough to merit a Wiki article. I’ve searched Wikipedia and seen many articles about musicians with far less relevance and far less article support that are up on Wikipedia. I don’t understand. I have a discography that’s almost three pages long. I have a book out with a solid five-star rating with 84 reviews. I have a history of being in a rock group with three top forty records (The Critters), which actually has it’s own Wiki page and the same references that I used! I have been credited with six platinum records. I just performed at the 2022 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inductions with three-time Grammy winner, Olivia Rodrigo. As Paul McCartney once said when being not let into a party, “How VIP do I have to be to get in?” Two of my band members have Wiki pages, Don Ciccone, and Lee Shapiro. My page is only different in that it has a lot more references. What to do?? Jrslam01 (talk) 16:30, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Jrslam01 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I can say quickly that other stuff exists is a poor argument to make. It could be that these other articles(not "pages") are also inappropriate and simply not addressed yet. As this is a volunteer project where people do what they can when they can, it is a possible for inappropriate articles to get by us. We can only address what we know about. 331dot (talk) 16:48, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, and I understand about articles slipping through unnoticed. Is it possible that they were simply posted, not run through the draft/approval system? Is that even possible? In any case, I feel my credits are noteworthy (of course I do!) after six decades of helping superstars become famous, and all the other credits I listed in the above note. It would be very helpful if someone could explain why those credits are not noteworthy. I’m not bitter or angry. I’m fine. I just simply don’t understand what’s missing, and the vague notice is not detailed enough to help me solve the problem, if in fact it is solvable. Jrslam01 (talk) 16:55, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that's entirely possible. Standards have become much stricter as the English Wikipedia has grown to over 6 million articles. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:00, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Please read the autobiography policy. If I'm reading the draft right,(I may not be) your career seems to mostly be as part of bands- you would only merit a standalone article if there is significant coverage of a solo career. The draft was declined, not rejected. Rejection would mean resubmission is not possible. 331dot (talk) 16:51, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Jrslam01 Writing acceptable Wikipedia articles is hard, as you are discovering. Part of the problem here is that (I assume) you are trying to write an autobiography without learning about Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, one of which is that every fact in a biography must be cited to a reliable source. The section on "Early life" cites no sources and should therefore be removed. You have added many external links in the main text: these are not appropriate and where they can't be converted into citations should also be removed. Discogs is unacceptable as a source as it is user-generated: see WP:RSDISCOGS. Some of the sources you use correctly in Draft:Jimmy Ryan (Guitarist) are based on interviews you gave, which do not establish that you are independently notable as Wikipedia defines this. Paradoxically, the draft might be much better if stripped back to a limited summary of what reliable secondary sources say, provided these are independent and provide significant coverage. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:55, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much, Mike. Now I have a clear picture of what’s wrong. As I said to the other person who responded, I’m fine with any response whether it is a decline or rejection, as long as I know what’s wrong. I’ll have another go with your comments in mind. One thing to consider. All those discog.com references? I’m not sure how else you would list the credits short of adding a photo of the record jackets themselves. I would appreciate any suggestions you might have regarding this. Jrslam01 (talk) 17:06, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Jrslam01, a person is considered notable and therefore eligible for a Wikipedia article when multiple reliable published sources that are independent of the person devote significant coverage to the person. There are three factors that must be present: "reliable", "independent" and "significant coverage". Having "a lot more references" is not a persuasive argument. The quality of the references is vastly more important than the quantity of the references. Think of it this way: Would you rather have three genuine gold coins or fifty pennies? So, identify whichever of your sources have those three essential elements, and point them out to the reviewer in a note at the top of the draft. Another problem is the issue of Verifiability, which is a core content policy. For example, the "Early Life" section is entirely unreferenced and is probably based on your memories of your life experiences. That violates another core content policy, No original research. Unless you can find a published reliable source that verifies that content, it must be removed. This is the biggest problem that people run into who try to write a Wikipedia autobiography. When someone writes an autobiographical book, they are encouraged to add personal anecdotes, but that is not permitted when writing a Wikipedia biography. So, go through your draft, sentence by sentence, and remove every single assertion that is not verified by a published, reliable source other than your own book. There are also stylistic problems. The draft lacks a lead section. Add one. You refer to yourself as "Jimmy" throughout, which is contrary to the Manual of style. We give the full name in the first sentence and then refer to people by their surnames thereafter, at least for most people in English speaking countries. So, "Ryan" not "Jimmy". You have a large number of external links in the body of the draft. This is not permitted. Either remove them or convert them to references. Linking to the Amazon page that sells your book is considered spam. Remove that. Reviewers hate name dropping. Your well-documented role in Carly Simon's early work is fine to mention, but the unreferenced lists of famous musicians that you worked with fleetingly hurts your goal, instead of helping you achieve it. I hope that this helps. Cullen328 (talk) 18:16, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

It helps a lot. Thank you! Looks like this is going to be a small article!! Last question. I’d like to spend a few days (or weeks) working on this to solve its problems. The draft help page is a little confusing to me. If I take out the submit code at the top and click publish, will it simply save the draft for future editing, rather than submit it prematurely for review? Jrslam01 (talk) 18:27, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes. "Publish" means "save" - it was changed in order to emphasise the fact that absolutely everything on Wikipedia - drafts, sandboxes, user pages - is public and can be read by anybody. But drafts are not indexed by external search engines, and so should not be seen unless somebody goes looking for them within Wikipedia. ColinFine (talk) 18:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Colin. That answers my question! Jrslam01 (talk) 22:18, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@Jrslam01 I don't think anyone answered your question about "how to list credits without using Discogs". I don't know the answer, but maybe someone else does. Good luck. David10244 (talk) 08:17, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Jrslam01 See WP:DISCOGRAPHY and links on that page. In general, if there is a Wikipedia article about the song or album, which is mainly the case here, we just Wikilink that article and don't need a separate source. There is even a specific project for discographies where you could seek help, see WP:WikiProject Discographies Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:43, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Michael D. Turnbull Thanks, now I know too. David10244 (talk) 09:45, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Help with editing an article

Hi, I recently created an article about Julien Vincent which has been tagged with the advert tag. Can another reviewer have a look and let me know how I can improve the article? Thanks! UMStellify (talk) 16:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, UMStellify. The big problem is working out what (or who) the article is about. If MarketForce is notable, write an article about it. If Vincent is notable, write about him, and focus on sources that talk about him. His receipt of a Goldman Environmental Prize would be significant, yet you don't mention it in the lead.

At the moment it looks like advertising because it does neither very well. Phrases like "The organization uses a multi-faceted approach in its campaigns, including personal meetings with finance executives, data-driven presentations on the risks and costs of coal investment, and partnerships with advocacy groups..." really grates as it 100% sounds like publicity-speak or a copy/paste job, not an encyclopaedia. That therefore leads me to ask if you are connected with the subject in some way, or have received payment to create it? If so, please declare it on your userpage, as explained here. TBH: Your article creations and barnstars thus far don't suggest you have a Conflict of Interest, but this one does somewhat set the old alarm bells ringing. Hope this helps a bit, Nick Moyes (talk) 17:34, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi Nick, based on all of the information available about Julien Vincent, he used the Market Forces platform for advocacy and combating coal financing - I think the two are inter-linked. Market Forces, in and of itself, doesn't seem to be as notable as Vincent.

Also, I have been creating articles about the Goldman Environmental Prize winners (after I edited the Prize article and found out that there are quite a few winners who don't have pages yet despite being sufficiently notable), but not the companies/organizations they created. Quite a few of them have created organizations, but currently my focus has been entirely on the Prize winners themselves.

As for the phrase: "The organization uses a multi-faceted approach in its campaigns, including personal meetings with finance executives, data-driven presentations on the risks and costs of coal investment, and partnerships with advocacy groups...", this is pretty much what they do/did. I'll figure out a way to rephrase it in a more neutral/objective way and get back to you for review, if you don't mind taking another look at it.

I hope this answers the COI question as well. I do not have any connection to the subject of this article.

Thanks for the help. UMStellify (talk) 17:59, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi, UMStellify. My immediate question about the quotation Nick brought up above is: how is this different from what every other marketing company does? If it is different, explain it (but based on what independent sources say about the company, not on what the company says itself). If it is not different, why does it belong in an encyclopaedia article about the company? ColinFine (talk) 18:46, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

@UMStellify Doesn't every company use a "multi-faceted" approach? :-) David10244 (talk) 08:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Draft: Mohamed Elhusseini was rejected for WP:COI

I dont understand this reason can any one help me to fix the problem ! Ahmedemad665 (talk) 18:42, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

FYI - Recent history is accepted as article on 29 December, then reverted to draft (not Rejected) on 30 December by editor who then asked Ahmeddmad665 to clarify if COI. Needs explanation of COI, and maybe of PAID. David notMD (talk) 20:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Can you tell me what to do to solve this problem sorry for late Ahmedemad665 (talk) 08:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Ahmedemad665, you've ignored the advice you've been given, and now you've sworn at those who gave it. If you're not willing to cooperate with other editors, don't expect them to cooperate with you. Maproom (talk) 21:32, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

I didn't ignore the advice, but I was asleep sorry Ahmedemad665 (talk) 08:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Good of using references

I did a good job for putting references of their biographies and their stories of athletes, heads of State, etc. on Wikipedia. It's like how to improve communication skills while using phonics. I volunteered as a friendly student. 100.2.114.167 (talk) 18:58, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

What is your question regarding editing Wikipedia? If this is about Tracey Caulkins, see the reply to your post on the Help Desk. ColinFine (talk) 10:27, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

using an article with a clan name

Hello!

Have you guidance or a standard for using an article when you refer to a clan name as a noun or subject?

For example, the Clan Campbell <did or was such and such> or Clan Campbell <did or was such and such>

I lean toward no article, but I see both approaches used in the content, sometimes in the same article.

Of course, I would use an article when the clan name is used as an adjective or modifier, like the Clan Campbell crest of arms is....

Thanks much. Toliverkt (talk) 00:34, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

From what I can tell it depends. Using the before the subject isn't wrong (e.g. Mississippi River). I can't think of any clans off the top of my head but the Rockefeller Family does have a the before the subject. ✶Mitch199811✶ 03:41, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

My understanding is that it would be "Clan Campbell", "the Campbell clan" or maybe "the clan Campbell" (small 'c'). I can't think of any other groups or proper nouns that work this way, but "Clan xxx" (without "the") seems idiomatic for Scottish clans particularly. ⁓ Pelagic ( messages ) 13:45, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I agree. Although it would be nice to have a style standard to use, an idiomatic approach works for me. I couldn't find anything in Chicago Manual of Style. Somebody holler if you don't like my associated edits. Thanks for the feedback. ktoliver ^talk 17:27, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I am worried that I would get blocked from editing

I am worried that I would get blocked from editing again, since I got blocked from editing two times. Can you please delete my two user talk pages, please?

I HATE if I get blocked from editing Wikipedia. 2607:FEA8:FD04:8107:8497:A2A3:C15D:136D (talk) 01:48, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

If you evade blocks, you are highly likely to get blocked again. Which user pages are you talking about? Cullen328 (talk) 02:13, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

From this abuse log entry, probably User:Aarushthakkar153, who was blocked for harassment. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 18:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Please fix Zaporizhzhia article

The lead section of Zaporizhzhia (city) states that the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (named after the oblast) is in the city, when it is actually located about 50km away in Enerhodar. My request on the talk page last week was ignored. Please fix this; the article is ECP protected so I cannot. 217.180.228.188 (talk) 02:03, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Good day, I would fix the detail but two things:

• Do you have a source.
• Next time, I would look for other places. I do not know precisely where you would go, I would go to WP:Ukraine.

✶Mitch199811✶ 03:37, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Mitch199811 What do you mean by "where the IP would go"? Do they need to go somewhere? David10244 (talk) 08:27, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I meant somewhere like the village well or questions for more specific help, sorry if I was a bit unclear. ✶Mitch199811✶ 15:09, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

IP editor. You are correct to point out that an article on the city doesn't need to mention in the lead power stations that are 50 km away, so I have removed that detail. The main text of the article still mentions them. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:59, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Context on Non-Free content criterion

Non-free content cannot be used in cases where a free content equivalent, with an acceptable quality sufficient to serve the encyclopedic purpose, is available or could be created. - Per WP:NFCC#1

I am asking for clarification on what "could be created" means here. Does it mean that, say, if we were to use a non-free image for a living person, that would violate NFCC 1 because there could be a free content portrait of them produced or would it simply mean that if there isn't a free equivalent, that a NFC can be used? Knightoftheswords281 (talk) 04:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Knightoftheswords281, typically, if a person is still alive (no matter how difficult they might be to contact) it's not impossible to take a photo of them. Therefore, non-free images of living persons are disallowed on Wikipedia. Hope this helps.-- Quisqualis (talk) 06:35, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Knightoftheswords281, the prototypical example of this issue was Kim Jong-un, who became supreme leader of North Korea in 2011. For years, there was no available freely licensed photograph of him, and many editors argued that it was absolutely impossible to find a freely licensed photo of the ruler of the hermit kingdom, so we should use a non-free image. Then along came his diplomatic offensive and foreign travel of 2018 and 2019, and suddenly, we had plenty of freely licensed and public domain photos to choose from, many of them taken by US government photographers when he met with Donald Trump three different times. Cullen328 (talk) 07:00, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

giving your personal information

dear, wikipedia team i need some personal information for your page. personal information to advertisement some people 2400:9700:111:3C11:9C73:F184:C8F2:EEFD (talk) 04:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

There is no "wikipedia team," just millions of registered accounts and unregistered contributors, all volunteers. David notMD (talk) 04:35, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Your English language skills are so poor that it is very difficult to understand what you are trying to say. But personal information to advertisement some people seems to be describing something that is not permitted on Wikipedia. Advertising on Wikipedia is forbidden. Cullen328 (talk) 06:13, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello, @2400:9700:111:3C11:9C73:F184:C8F2:EEFD. It seemed you are asking for other's personal information, this is called Doxxing and will not be allowed. Lemonaka (talk) 10:32, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

If you want to have a contact with Wikimedia foundation team, please go to https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/ to contact them Lemonaka (talk) 10:33, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

• I believe OP means contact info of Wikipedia editor(s), and that they want to advertise some people (their clients?). —usernamekiran (talk) 20:25, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Biography Pages - removing info

Hi - a new editor here. The page for Jeffrey Gramlich contains essentially a resume. What is the usual approach to removing that / rewriting the article in another way? From what a quick google can tell me, I am not even sure this article applies to the basic standards of "notability" other than this individual being a frequent publisher of tax related articles in tax related publications. I cannot see discourse about that person from other sources. As a new editor, I don't want to get in trouble for straight deletions of text. Bustlingporkchop (talk) 05:15, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Bustlingporkchop. The appicable notability guideline is Wikipedia:Notability (academics). If you truly do not believe that this person meets that standard, then familiarize yourself with the Deletion policy. Cullen328 (talk) 06:22, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Hard to believe that this has existed since 2008 with no references! Gramlich appears to have contributed, but last was 2014. Given that Gramlich as an academic occupied two endowed university chairs in his career, likely qualifies, but major rewrite and referencing needed. David notMD (talk) 14:08, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

And all the hyperlinks need to be removed. David notMD (talk) 14:09, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

https://directory.business.wsu.edu/vita/GramlichJeffrey.pdf can be a useful ref for much of the content. David notMD (talk) 14:15, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I've just had a big discussion at the talk page of WP:NPROF about precisely this sort of situation. No, the person probably doesn't meet basic notability, but as I understand it, NPROF takes precedence over general notability, and is intended to deal with the problem that most academics, even those who've had enormous influence on human knowledge, would struggle to meet general notability. Possession of a named chair (which Gramlich has) is enough to secure a Wikipedia article, and there doesn't have to be any independent sourcing to back this up (as there is no doubt that institutional pages are honest about who occupies their professorships). A summary of his impactful publications can and should be included; as these have been assessed independently by the publishers, they are evidence of his impact in his area. But basically you've bumped into a corner of the world that is exempt both from normal notability and (largely) from referencing, but is operating to a different, parallel set of standards. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that resumé-based articles can't be improved. It is better to go looking for sources and information, than to attempt AfD, which is guaranteed to fail. Elemimele (talk) 14:57, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

You still need references to show that they have possessed a named chair or other credentials. I would suggest looking at there page at WSU, but that's a copy of Wikipedias article. I missed the pdf link above, which covers most of the details. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 22:17, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I'm being harassed but cannot figure out how to stop it

Short version: an editor keeps attacking me and calling my edits garbage and irrelevant, and keeps deleting edits I make for no reason. How do I make him stop and/or report him? I'm combed through Wikipedia's articles but I find them confusing.

Longer version: I added a semi-famous alumna to a school page. An editor took it down saying he didn't think they were important. The person appears in numerous prominent publications and I go to the school; we love talking about how the person went there. I feel these are both objective standards of relevance to both the school and on a broader cultural significance. I also told this editor relevance is subjective and that, while they may not personally find this person important, they do meet Wikipedia's suggested objective criteria of significance. Well now this editor won't stop messaging me, reporting me for I don’t know what (I haven't done anything mean/false/or otherwise offensive to Wiki's policies), and deleting reasonable and reliable edits I have made on pages. I added the head of the Law Society to their law school's notable alumni section and he even deleted that. I added multiple sources and it's hard to defend why the head of Canada's largest provincial legal organization isn't relevant to their law school, no? Wikileeks5 (talk) 08:43, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Wikileeks5. If the alumna does not have a Wikipedia biography, then do not add that person to a list of notable alumni. That's pretty basic and a widespread standard across the encyclopedia. If you truly believe that the person belongs on that list, then do the voluntary work of writing a well-referenced, acceptable Wikipedia biography. Cullen328 (talk) 08:55, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

My concern is the harassment and name calling Wikileeks5 (talk) 09:01, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

After a quick scan of your talk and the edit summit history of the page involved, I didn't see any name calling or harrassment. What I did see is you playing WP:IDHT as they point out valid policies for why you need to stop edit warring over this inclusion unless you want to take the time to write an article. Did I miss the name calling? Link please, if I missed it? 09:11, 31 December 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heironymous Rowe (talk • contribs) 9:11, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Doesn't "You're a rather mean and nasty person" qualify as name calling? Written by Wikileeks5 on their own talk page. Maproom (talk) 09:40, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I think it does, but thats the person making the accusations. I wanted an example of the other person doing it, because I sure didn't notice it. But I did note OP was warned to watch out for boomerangs. 10:14, 31 December 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heironymous Rowe (talk • contribs) 10:14 31 December 2022 (UTC)

• This is the wrong venue for complaints about other user behaviour, you want WP:ANI although I do not recommend going there as there does not seem to be any evidence of harassment. I would advise you listen to more experienced editors. Courtesy ping: @Meters: Polyamorph (talk) 10:25, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
• The problem is you. Wikipedia has a simple rule - names not to be added to a 'Notable' list unless an article exists about that person. Stop doing that and other editors will stop warning you for doing something wrong. David notMD (talk) 14:28, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Transfer of Olympic Swimmer Tracy Caulkins from Sports Reference to Olympedia

I want to explain the whole truth. May 26, 2020, Sports Reference have closed Olympic sites and bave it transfer into Olympedia. I need you to help me improve and correct the reference of Tracy Caulkins in her biography. https://www.olympedia.org/athletes/50983 where she competes for the Women's 100m Breaststroke https://www.olympedia.org/results/7181, 200 metres Individual Medley, Women https://www.olympedia.org/results/7214, 400 metres Individual Medley, Women https://www.olympedia.org/results/7222, 4 x 100 metres Medley Relay, Women. Thank you. 100.2.114.167 (talk) 10:08, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

This has been answered at the Help Desk. Please do not post the same question in multiple places, as it wastes people's time in duplicating effort, and may lead to separate parallel discussions. ColinFine (talk) 10:24, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Delighted. Delighted. I just ask for help and may improve some lessons of learning. I go with permission. Forgive me. 100.2.114.167 (talk) 14:57, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Added some clarifying text, is it an improvement?

I added this:

"As such, note that this list does not include every person who has reached at least an age of 110 years."

To here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_supercentenarians

It now reads

"... The following is a list of famous supercentenarians (people who have attained the age of at least 110 years) notable for reasons other than just longevity. As such, note that this list does not include every person who has reached at least an age of 110 years. ..."

It feels a little grammatically awkward to mention 110 twice. Is there a better way to word that? Or is it okay? It was added to make it more clear that the list doesn't include everyone of that age. If it's unnecessary to include that, then let me know and I'll revert it (unless someone else wants to). 2600:6C4E:1200:1E85:984E:F9AE:AD6D:15AC (talk) 11:17, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@2600:6C4E:1200:1E85:984E:F9AE:AD6D:15AChello, welcome to the Teahouse. It's Okay, nothing grammatically awkward Lemonaka (talk) 11:20, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll leave it as is then. 2600:6C4E:1200:1E85:984E:F9AE:AD6D:15AC (talk) 11:22, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I just changed it to "...this list does not include every person who has reached this age"; I think it was a little awkward because it had redundancy in it. —ME_isSCAMMER (scam) 14:58, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Adding pictures and links

Sorry, but I really want to know how to add pictures because when I try it always just says the name of the pictures link but never shows it.

Also how do I add links as when I do even if it's a real page that exists it says do you want to make a draft on it or not a real page yet. Thanks. Imadethis123 (talk) 12:17, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello Imadethis123! Welcome to The Teahouse. You sound like you have a number of questions. I think taking the tutorial will answer most of them. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:34, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Imadethis123 (talk) 15:08, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Imadethis123 Almost all of your edits to date have been reverted because they do not follow Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. I have just reverted this example where you marked as a "minor" edit an addition of your personal views on history. All Wikipedia content must be cited to a published reliable source. Please take time to read the linked pages here and on your User Page about what it is acceptable to add. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:56, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Imadethis123 Your edit that Mike T linked above also made a very large number of changes to spacing around double vertical bars or || symbols. I don't see any "textual" reason for those dozens of changes. If you perhaps did any global search and replace, there is rarely any reason to do that. Mike Turnbull's revert has put all of those changes back to the way they were before your edit. Your intentions were good, judging from your edit summary, but the linked guidelines in the other replies will help. Good luck. David10244 (talk) 10:05, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

thanks Imadethis123 (talk) 09:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I'd like help formatting columns on a page I'm putting together

I'd like to be able to split my page into two columns. Maybe 2/3 of the space for text entries and historical information and the 1/3 on the right for pictures, infoboxes, maps, chronologies, etc...

Draft:Sidney P. Marland Jr. PI 71 5280 2021 (talk) 18:37, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

However, I'd persuade you don't split them into two columns, this against WP:MOS Lemonaka (talk) 18:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@PI 71 5280 2021 I helped you improve this article a little. Lemonaka (talk) 18:42, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

WAY TOO MUCH about his military service and FAR TOO LITTLE about his federal service in education field, as that is what makes him notable. David notMD (talk) 19:40, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Agreed on the education work. That's my next round of adds - and there will be a bunch of that. PI 71 5280 2021 (talk) 20:11, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Articles are displayed differently on different-sized screens. You don't want to force something like that for mobile phone displays, for example. David10244 (talk) 10:06, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

What can be done?

In Ann Rutledge, in the section "Historical criticism of alleged Lincoln-Rutledge relationship, I just inserted in this sentence: "In his Lincoln the President, historian James G. Randall wrote a chapter entitled "Sifting the Ann Rutledge Evidence" which cast doubt on the nature of her and Lincoln's relationship." I did this because Lincoln the President has four volumes. I tried to put "volume number needed," but was not allowed to because there is no template for that. That would be more helpful than "citation needed." What can be done? Maurice Magnus (talk) 19:45, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Maurice Magnushello, welcome to the teahouse. Why not have a try for {{Citation needed|reason=Your explanation here|date=December 2022}} Lemonaka (talk) 19:52, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Lemonaka Thanks; it worked. There is so much for Wikipedia editors to learn! Maurice Magnus (talk) 20:14, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi, everyone has a lot of things to learn on Wikipedia. We are all climbing the learning curve Lemonaka (talk) 20:16, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

@Maurice Magnus and @Lemonaka, there is actually a template for this: {{volume needed}}. There's a list you can check at for others like {{page needed}} too. If you can't find a specific one, {{full citation needed}} is the generic application for "a citation is present but incomplete". XAM2175 ^(T) 13:08, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Teahouse!

Someone can revert me like I said last time, but I just wanted to tell all of you that 2022 (in UTC) has officially passed, and we have entered the fresh new year of 2023! Thank you for your contributions; all of you!
Happy New Year! — 3PPYB6 ^{(T / C / L)} — 00:00, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@3PPYB6 Welcome to the Teahouse. I'm so excited to best wishes to you and everyone with a new 2023 is very happy. I hope this 2023 to see with everything of your fantastic work this fourthcoming year and you making an Wikipedian.
Happy New Year! 2402:800:63B0:81F6:BD40:A76:26A7:55BA (talk) 02:28, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

This brings to mind my recent block for wishing a 'Happy New Year' to so many, so quickly. I'd like to continue if I can get support for that. See my post below, and the context here. TY — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 21:23, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Can inline citation-related templates be used in templates?

In a template, I consider the addition of a newly added item lacking support from reliable sources, so I used the inline template {{citation needed span}} on the item. But the editor who added the item removed the inline template and claimed that "We don't use citations in templates."

Is his removal of the inline citation-related template appropriate? If yes, how do we mark something in a template as lacking support from reliable sources? --Matt Smith (talk) 02:08, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@Matt Smith, it's not clear why you felt that particular footer entry needed a citation, as nothing else in the Template:Alt-right footer has one. Footer entries are put there on the basis of logic and consensus only, and a citation that Truth social is part of Alt-tech isn't called for. If you strongly feel that TS is not in a category with Gab and Parler, please discuss it on the talk page of the footer.-- Quisqualis (talk) 07:12, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I see. So {{citation needed span}} shouldn't be used in that template. Thank you. Matt Smith (talk) 07:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@Matt Smith Hello, welcome to the Teahouse. A discussion has been taken on the related talk page, please continue the discussion to get a consensus. Lemonaka (talk) 07:19, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, a discussion has been in progress. Meanwhile, I'm seeking for an inline template which can be used to indicate that the newly added item is in dispute. Can {{Disputed inline}} or {{Under discussion inline}} be used in this case? Matt Smith (talk) 07:31, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

We seldom use {{citation needed span}} on template, For pages other than articles, we don't use {{Disputed inline}}, instead, we use {{Under discussion inline}}. Did I make it clear? Lemonaka (talk) 07:37, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I understand. Thanks! Matt Smith (talk) 07:39, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I was kind of surprised that nobody made an issue of putting a warning about the template itself wihin a template, i.e. it's perfectly fine for the template to generate a warning when it is used in a questionable or erroneous manner. Putting in a {{citation needed}} in this manner would give the impression that the template itself is being used incorrectly. The result is that existing correct uses of the template would get the warning, which would be inappropriate. Fabrickator (talk) 22:12, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Change a title

(1) I have started a draft and want to refer to an existing article. The existing article is titled John Murray (judge), but his name is actually Sir John Murray Murray. I want to use his full name (JMM) in my draft but can't because the title is different (I assume). How can I (or an experienced editor) change the title? [I am JMM's granddaughter so am knowledgeable about this.]

(2) I added two sentences in the middle of JMM's article - statements about his marriage and children. The only citation I could provide is the Murray Family Register, a PDF that traces the family members from 1822 forward. Would it be appropriate to put this in Commons? Then I could refer to it.

Thanks for your help.

Slim8029 (talk) 02:28, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

1. You can refer to an article by any (reasonable) term you wish, by using a piped link. Click on the blue text to read about it.
2. I have reverted your changes to John Murray (judge) because you did not provide a source. Read WP:RS for information about what sources are considered reliable. A PDF with no provenance is useless as a source, because anyone can create a PDF and write anything they wish in it. You need to find published sources, as explained in WP:RS. CodeTalker (talk) 02:53, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I fixed you problem #1 and added section heads as a replacement for you bold headings.

You need to transfer all the references that are on your user page to the draft article. Read WP:REF for how to format inline references. Regards, Ariconte (talk) 02:57, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

As Ariconte points out, all that content on your User page needs to be moved to a draft that you can start by using WP:YFA. Also, at John Murray (judge) it appears that you contributed a photograph to Commons, claiming it as your own work. That term applies only to photographs you yourself have taken. Hence removed from the article, and I expect, soon to be removed from Commons. David notMD (talk) 12:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the section heads and the updated link..

Side question - I assume you've decided the Michael Shapiro topic is "notable" enough to include in Wikipedia??

Re item 2.

Well, there are a couple of published sources that contain the information I added to John Murray Murray's entry.

THE MURRAY FAMILY REGISTER 1794 -1977 by Caroline Murray - shows up on a google search

Murray-Stamregister 1794-1954 by Emma Horn shows up on biblio.com.

I don't have copies of these books so could not upload them to Commons. Can I nevertheless use one of them as a citation?

The current version of the Family Register is 300 pages long and is privately issued but has an ISBN number.

Re the photo.

I think this was taken by my mother (now deceased). So am I permitted to upload it? I have other photos of lesser quality taken by either my mother or me. I assume I could upload one or more of them?

Re references

Yes, I plan on adding the other references to the Michael Shapiro document. But I now gather I can't refer to casual information I've gathered. For instance, Beverley Hooper has been most helpful with her comments about earlier Word drafts. But her remarks are not published, obviously, so can't be referenced, I assume?

Re a specific reference.

One of the documents I have is "Speech at the Memorial Meeting for Michael Shapiro, October 21, 1986, Xinhua News Agency". I would like to add this to Commons since it has relevant details in it. But I am not its creator. I think it was prepared by Michael's wife and sons (all now deceased or incapacitated), possibly with input from Michael's Xinhua colleagues. What can I do with this document?

Your help is appreciated.

Sallie Slim8029 (talk) 23:26, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I will copy the above questions to the draft article's talk page Draft_talk:Michael_Shapiro and try to answer them there. Regards, Ariconte (talk) 03:38, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

khandayat article

The khandayat caste page is looking like a propaganda. I am from odisha. I studies many caste and people related books like HH risely's tribe and caste of odisha and Bengal, lk mohapatra's many book, Japanese writer akio tanabe's reserch article,prasant Pradhans article, also odisha district gazetteer by many ias officers. They all written correct information and that also match with reality of odisha society. Khandayat is a martial caste and chasa is a sub caste of khandayat. We can find it in every khandayat article and books. But a editor trying to relate gouda caste to khandayat caste by misusing a books information. Sir,There is no connection of khandayat caste with goudas. This is propaganda. Pls reserch on this. Sekharblack123 (talk) 04:24, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

The proper place for discusion about Khandayat (caste) is the Talk page of that article, where I see you have already made a comment.. David notMD (talk) 04:40, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

And please be mindful that not all Wikipedia volunteers are men. "Sir" is not a well-chosen salutation. Thanks. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 05:25, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I guess English isn't your first language, or that you are used to a particular dialect, so may find the previous comment confusing.

It is considered good manners to use both male and female forms of address in anything written for a general audience in English.

However, this is a matter of totally natural confusion, as it deals with a recent change of use. "Sir" used to be regarded as an acceptable form of written address to any unknown person in the UK, well within living memory: I would guess it is still regarded as entirely gender-inclusive in some geographical areas.

In case it helps: in this context in modern English, it is (more) correct not to use a salutation at all. If "Sir" should be used, we would usually write "Sir/Madam" in the UK. ("Sir/Madam" is usually only used in formal paper letters to an unknown recipient). I don't know if other countries have different conventions! We all welcome your contribution to improving the project. FloweringOctopus (talk) 08:29, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Except your initial post was not written to anyone, it was simply a statement of opinion. If anything your use of the word "Sir" in that context is not only a bad saultation in modern English, it's not even gramatically correct in that context. Sir/Madam are just bizaarly formal in such a context. FishandChipper 🐟🍟 08:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@FishandChipper and @FloweringOctopus: It was used as an abbreviated salutation in certain forms of English until quite recently, though it is unquestionably viewed as archaic now. I used to see it used in letters to the editor in some Australian newspapers even into the early 2000s, for example. It's possible that the original poster here is addressing their communication in the assumption that we have some form of official role in managing Wikipedia's content. XAM2175 ^(T) 13:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Sekharblack123 welcome to the teahouse. I'm so sorry but I cannot understand your English, could you make it clear? Lemonaka (talk) 08:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

hi all, I have invited them to come to hindi wikipedia. Lemonaka (talk) 08:41, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Sekharblack123 The issue appears to be a disagreement with the last sentence of the Lead at Khandayat (caste): "Historically they originated from Oda & Gauda castes." Again, proper place to reach consensus is Talk page of that article. David notMD (talk) 12:50, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

To the language police - in my opinion, the use of "Sir" late in what Sekharnblack123 wrote was not intended as a salutation, but rather as derogatory intent, as in "Sir (you idiot), there is no connection of khandayat caste with goudas." David notMD (talk) 12:50, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

A native speaker would probably mean to be insulting, but I'd have thought that understanding when words like "please" and "Sir" are insulting rather than polite, and choosing an appropriate level of formality, are quite high up on the fluency scale! For example, I used to struggle with the formal and informal forms of "you" in German: for one teenage girl to use the formal form to another - which I did by accident - seems to have been about the equivalent of addressing a classmate, in all seriousness, as, "O, Miss Sirname."

I thought Sekharnblack123 was owed an explanation of Julietdeltalima's comment, which seemed potentially unintelligible to anyone who isn't familiar with the last fifty years of arguments about gender-specific language use in Western English-speaking countries. I'd argue that telling someone that using particular language is incorrect is problematic, as what they need to know in order to do differently is what is correct! FloweringOctopus (talk) 15:44, 1 January 2023 (UTC) FloweringOctopus (talk) 15:43, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

It's all well and good to know different levels of formality but choosing the incorrect one looks very "unfluent". All the examples you have given are absurdly high levels of formality for a forum discussion. FishandChipper 🐟🍟 17:06, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Is there anyway to combine RTRC and popup?

Hello everyone, I found that RTRC tool has provide us with ORES and CVN scores, may help us identify bad edits in a short time, but it's a little hard to use for me. While popup give me a lot of help when patrolling, but it doesn't have a score for all the edits. Is there any way or any tools to combine them together Lemonaka (talk) 07:06, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

How to delete my created pages ?

plz tell e how can vanished/delete my article pages Ajrun Amir'za-da (talk) 09:36, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Ajrun Amir'za-da. Every single time that you make any edit to Wikipedia, you agree to legal language that says, By publishing changes, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license. "Irrevocably" means that you have given up your right to change your mind. There may be other valid reasons to remove the content that you wrote. What are those reasons? Cullen328 (talk) 09:59, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Be specific. Your history includes two created articles, four or more either Speedy deleted or redirected, two existing drafts, and several drafts that were deleted for no activity for six months. If you mean existing drafts, abandon them, and in time will be deleted. If you mean your successfully created articles, I suppose you could start the Articles for deletion process, giving cause for deletion. David notMD (talk) 13:02, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@Ajrun Amir'za-da: can I just clarify: is the problem (1) that articles you wrote have been deleted, and you don't know how that happened, or (2) is the problem that some articles you wrote have not been deleted, but you'd like them to be deleted? Elemimele (talk) 13:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Username change

Hi Wikipedians

Yesterday, I changed my name on Wikimedia Commons from something to Axadem. The problem is that, this change also affected my profile in Wikipedia.

Is it possible to keep my old name in Wikipedia but "Axadem" in Wikimedia Commons? Axadem (talk) 12:23, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@Axadem: Hi. In short, it is not possible because of WP:SUL. If you wish you can create another account (including your previous username), and use different accounts on different projects (enwiki, commons). But you should declare all of your accounts per WP:SOCKLEGIT. Let me know if you have any doubts, or queries. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:30, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Notability

would an article about charlemagne's water clock be notable in wikipedia standard? Time Up King (talk) 12:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse. Please read Wikipedia:Notability and then determine whether the subject meets those requirements by finding significant coverage in independent WP:reliable sources. Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:56, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

First glance, there appear to be several mentions of Charlemagne receiving the gift of a water clock. Consider adding referenced content about this to the Water clock article rather than a separate article. David notMD (talk) 14:32, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Usage of ChatGPT

See also: Wikipedia:Village_pump (policy) § Wikipedia response to chatbot-generated content

Hi! Can I use some parts of a chatGPT result in my wikipedia article? Thanks! Tiagorangel2011 (talk) 12:52, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but that might be original research, which is not accepted on Wikipedia. The ⬡ Bestagon^[t][c] 12:59, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

ChatGPT has a informational database up to 2021. It doesn't know what happened after that (maybe they've updated it). The bot also relies on primary/secondary/reliable sources. Even if the bot's output is neutral, and reliable, I don't know what is copyright status of content provided by the bot. —usernamekiran (talk) 13:27, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

hi @Tiagorangel2011 and welcome to the Teahouse! while I haven't tested chatgpt yet (i feel like i'm overdue to try it out given i'm interested in ai technology but i'm too lazy to get an account in openai) it may not really be usable for Wikipedia. there's a thread in the help desk regarding this (link: Am I permitted to use ChatGPT to help me contribute to Wikipedia?) where the general consensus seems to be that it may not exactly be accurate (yet). perhaps once the tech advances more perhaps and it's trained more? in theory (I haven't tested it out yet), you can ask it about something and require it to back up its claims with sources, but since you're going to have to verify its output first, you might as well just feed that question to your local search engines. happy editing!

on an unrelated note, I'm now interested if and when we get an AI dedicated to writing Wikipedia articles afted being trained on information in the internet + Wikipedia articles, what will happen and what'll it be like? 💜  melecie  talk - 13:30, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Ah ChatGPT, it's not suited for Wikipedia as far as my personal experience playing with it. While, the bot does give you average writing output result based on what you have asked it however it doesn't provide any form of citations in its output, and if you were to asked for "where is the citations?" after it gave you the writing output, it simply response something like this "sorry ... I'm a language model bot ... and doesn't has access to external sources" (quote isn't a exact word-by-word of the output given but rewritten to something along the line; as I'm unsure what's the copyright, ChatGPT is using ... maybe it's written somewhere but I'm lazy) of which it also tells you that Wikipedia's articles requires citations. So, unless you want your article to be deleted or sent to draftspace or your edits to be reverted, you shouldn't be using ChatGPT for Wikipedia purposes. — 🎄🎆 Paper9oll 🎆🎄 (🔔 • 📝) 14:41, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

There is a more extended discussion on this at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Wikipedia_response_to_chatbot-generated_content. 0xDeadbeef→∞ (talk to me) 14:53, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

how to de-orphan articles if your editing privileges are limited?

I have two articles (Business Ethics (film) and The Song Spinner (film)) that I want to de-orphan by linking the cast/crew of the films back to their respective Wikipedia articles, e.g. mention Business Ethics in Larenz Tate's page/filmography, but a few months ago, my ability to edit Wikipedia articles about living people was revoked by another Wikipedia user, as far as I can remember, so basically I can still make/edit pages for media like these films, but I can't de-orphan them. PetSematary182 (talk) 16:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@PetSematary182: Your topic ban about editing or discussing living persons is there on your talk page. Proposing a link on a talk page seems harmless enough. @Tamzin: since you seem to be the person enforcing this topic ban (based on what I see on PetSemetary182's talk page) do you have any objection to posting edit requests on BLP talk pages? Or even wikilinking a word in an existing BLP article? Adding wikilinks seems like gnomish maintenance work, not affecting BLP content. ~Anachronist (talk) 16:26, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I'll wait to hear @Tamzin 's ruling on this one, just to be on the safe side. PetSematary182 (talk) 16:49, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@Anachronist: Thanks for the ping. @PetSematary182: You know, I'll be honest, the scope of this TBAN is one of my greater regrets as an admin. I was going to do just the "BLP controversy" half, but someone advised me that that would be hard to enforce, and so I added the "BLP article/section" half, which has just proven harder to enforce. At the same time, I've blocked you twice, including for sockpuppetry, which has kind of tied my hands in terms of walking the sanction back. How about this: You can make edit requests on BLP talk pages, as long as they don't pertain to controversies (broadly construed). If after two months of active editing no further BLP or sockpuppetry issues have come up, we can have a talk about further loosening that part of the restriction. (I don't currently have plans to loosen the "BLP-related controversy" half.) Does that work for you? -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 19:51, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@Tamzin yes, that sounds fine. As for the two movie pages I mentioned, as far as I know there are no BLP controversies associated with any cast/crew of either movie, and so I don't think there would be any issue there... there is a bit of contention among fans of the film The Song Spinner over its lack of a non-VHS media release, but that has nothing to do with any BLP figure in the article and isn't really even relevant to it, so I don't think it would ever even come up. That's more of a corporate issue anyway having to do with licensing rights, not any one living person. PetSematary182 (talk) 20:19, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@PetSematary182: Alrighty then. Look good to you? Like please, ask away; I would rather answer 100 questions about a sanction's scope than block someone over a misunderstanding. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 20:39, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

To be aided answers of 4 Questions

Hello everyone, Hope you're good and we're enjoying 2023. I have few (literally many and long) questions here I need guidance from you;

• How do I move a page without leaving a redirect, All of my pages (mainspace) were created as drafts at first but whenever I wanted to move them I don't see the option to whether leave/dont leave a redirect. That caused some problems.
• 2 of the 9 reviewed and patrolled pages I created have (disambiguation), unlike the other reviewed (without) which were indexed right away by search engines (some seconds to be precisely), but these two are forever uni-indexed. Do they need more time or they've got some problems? I asked the reviewer who told me everything was normal but insisted me to ask here too.
• Can two articles of the same names be enough to create a disambiguation category? e.g; (Lava Lava (disambiguation) with Lava Lava and Lava Lava (singer)?
• Is it normal for Talk pages to be Indexed by search engines? I saw that from one of the articles I created and one from Talk:Joe Young (horse). All Pages I created are on My userpage for refs ANU^writes 16:25, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@Afyaniuhai: My answers:

• I don't know of anything that prevents the "move without leaving a redirect" checkbox from appearing, but maybe you need extended confirmed status first. Most drafts that are moved to article space leave a redirect behind, as standard practice.
• We have no control over how fast something is indexed, but generally a page patroller needs to patrol a page before indexing can happen. It happens when it happens.
• See WP:TWODABS. With just two articles it's sufficient to put a hatnote in each one, linking to the other, especially if neither one can be considered the "primary" topic.
• It depends on the search engine. If talk pages are indexed at all, they would not be ranked highly in the search results.

Vague answers, to be sure. ~Anachronist (talk) 16:39, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello, ANU, and a happy 2023 to you.

Only pagemovers can move pages without leaving redirects. You'll either need to request the move via WP:RM, or do the move yourself and then delete the redirect (for the use case you are talking about, you can use WP:R2).

And Talk pages are normally set up as noindex, so well-behaved search engines will not index them.ColinFine (talk) 16:44, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @Anachronist: and @ColinFine: I think I got the answers I was looking for, as for the talk pages, I thought they had a noidex code on them too but Talk:Joseph Marwa (actor) and Talk:Joe Young (horse) has appeared to almost all big search engines (Google, bing, Yandex, Startpage & duckduck go) sometimes as the first pages but that was only a question to end my curiosity, the big deal/problem was about page moving which I guess I'll have to wait another 18 days to have extended confirmed status or ask page movers. ANU^writes 17:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Extended confirmed won't do it, ANU: you need Page mover, which has to be granted explicitly.

Talk:Joseph Marwa (actor) has got noindex, so if a search engine is indexing it, it's being naughty.. ColinFine (talk) 17:22, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

hi

What if you see a mistake in a writing but do not know how to edit it? I have tried and tried to find a guide to see but I cannot find one. IGotHacked12 (talk) 17:22, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello, IGotHacked12, and welcome to the Teahouse.

It's hard to answer when you don't tell us the specific article and what the problem is. You should be able to edit most articles, but if there's one you can't edit, you can usually put an edit request on the article's talk page. ColinFine (talk) 17:27, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@IGotHacked12 You can edit almost all articles by clicking the "edit" button at the top. If there are no "edit button", it means that it is only editable by editors with more edits. If that happens, you can put a edit request like ColinFine told you to. Carpimaps (talk) 02:39, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Saving a Draft Article

I created a long draft article over several hours, then needed to stop. I looked for a save draft button but did not find one. Now I came back to continue editing, and the draft article has zero content. Empty. Did I lose those hours of work? How do I save a draft before it's ready to publish? BlueChippy (talk) 21:56, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

BlueChippy, to save a draft that's not ready to publish (in the sentence of "make into an article"), you click "Publish changes". This confusing label on the button is recommended by our lawyers, as anything you save in Wikipedia, including drafts and sandboxes, is legally published. You are not the first, nor the thousandth, person to have been misled by this. Maproom (talk) 22:32, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello BlueChippy (talk)! You can save an article you are working on creating by copying it & pasting into a notepad (do make sure to then save the notepad contents). As long as you are not using the Visual Editor at the time of copying your text, you'll be able to copy the wiki markup included in your article. With the wiki markup intact, when you paste the text back into Wikipedia things like inline citations & other coded features will be retained. You can use "Show Preview" button to see how the article is working without the need to prematurely publish. I just recently created an article & used this method to ensure I could get everything right before posting & also safely take breaks without fear of losing everything. I actually do this for anything of any length I write on a computer. Copy/pasting frequently to a text document in this way protects against crashes or power cuts which always have a habit of happening at the most inconvenient times, like when a draft is almost complete. Hope this is of help to you! Take care, LooksGreatInATurtleNeck (talk) 23:34, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Getting a Wikipedia page

Hello I’m a music producer who has produced for several major artists. Including Stitches which I produced most of his biggest songs including brick in yo face, Molly Cyrus, kilos in my bag etc I wanted to add I was the one behind the production on his Wikipedia and find a way to make my self one since I have worked with several other artists like Kevin gates, Mistah fab, Travis barker etc if anyone can instruct me on how I should do this it would be great please and thank you. 2600:1700:1E7E:6810:C427:7341:CF63:224A (talk) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello IP editor, and welcome to the Teahouse. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia which collates information about notable topics. This means things, people, concepts or places that have been written about by multiple reliably-published sources, independent of the subject. If you can show us at least three such sources that talk about you in detail and in depth, then you may well qualify for an article. See WP:NBIO for our notability criteria. From what you say, you might well meet those critieria - I've no idea. But if independently published sources don't exist, then no article can be created.

That said, we still very strongly advise everyone not to attempt to create an article about themselves here - it's a huge Conflict of Interest and best left to other, unconnected people to write about any such notable person. See also WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY, for reasons why it isn't always a good idea to even try.

You'd be welcome to upload a selfie of yourself to Wikimedia Commons, which could be associated with any such article, now or n the future which may be created. But bear in mind that if the community here doesn't deem someone notable, then any attempt is doomed to failure. Submitting any draft to Articles for Creation is the best way for all new editors to avoid disappointment and gain feedback and guidance.

Finally, as a music producer, it might well be appropriate to add your name to an artist's page or to a music track in its WP:INFOBOX, but only if supported by a reference to a Reliable Source which clearly names you as that producer. Minor names (sound engineers, etc) would not be OK to add as this would amount to WP:TRIVIA, which we try to avoid. I can't offer much more advice as I know nothing about the music industry, but I hope this helps you a bit. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 00:20, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for all the information ! Attaching an article from a press run https://www.wwlp.com/business/press-releases/ein-presswire/608945456/rising-music-executive-luxury-living-kirb-launches-luxury-living-music-featuring-songs-from-stitches/ as far as other links I can provide YouTube links with major artists that have produced by my company in the description. One of our songs was also placed in Comedy Centrals South Park. I haven’t been in many article but I do have alot of well known music out. As far as adding produced by to the songs I produced how should I go about doing that ? My producer tag is on all the songs and on YouTube almost all of them say produced by in the description. 2600:1700:1E7E:6810:3419:7F64:618F:F7A4 (talk) 04:18, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Please note that YouTube is not considered to be a reliable source, unless it is the official YouTube account of a major news organization. Most YouTube videos are self-published and lack editorial review, making them unreliable sources. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 04:55, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

What would be a more reliable source that’s usually used  ? Would genius work? If not the copyrights with the library of congress maybe ? 2600:1700:1E7E:6810:0:0:0:1B (talk) 05:55, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Also note that press releases, like the one you linked to on wwlp, are not considered reliable sources for the purpose of establishing notability. You should read the Reliable Source link that @Nick Moyes linked to above to understand what are considered reliable sources here on Wikipedia. The number of your songs, how well-known they are, or where they have been featured isn't really relevant; the only important thing is that reliable independent sources have published information about you. CodeTalker (talk) 05:57, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

How do I find a talk page for a project

Sorry if this is a silly question but wikipedia suggested I go to the talk page for a wikiproject to discuss edits/etc but I can't find the talk page for a project. Is there a URL? I'm specifically looking for the Talk page for this project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Disability Catchant (talk) 23:58, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

@Catchant: Welcome to the Teahouse. If you look near the top of the page there's a "Talk" link that will bring you to the page's associated talk page. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 00:03, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Catchant. You'll find it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disability. In 'desktop view' there's a tab just to the right of the Project page. Are you using a mobile, in which case finding the talk page is slightly less evident, but the link it still there for you. Hope this helps. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:03, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I was looking on the right side of the screen (since that's where it is for articles) but I get it nw! Catchant (talk) 00:51, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Question about leaving feedback for more suited editors.

Hello! I was looking over the article for the 2022 Kazakh presidential election after finding it listed in Category:All articles needing copy edit and I find that article needs some work such as a through copy edit and also a shortening of the opening segment but I do not find myself adequately versed in the subject at hand to do such myself. Is there a way one could note for a future editor of the page, who is more capable in the subject matter, what they feel the article is in need of? Would that just go in the talk page? Thank you for your time.

P.S I apologize if anything here breaks some sort of social convention here that I am not aware of or seems like something very obvious. Planetberaure (talk) 03:20, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Planetberaure, as detailed on the documentation page, you can use the |for= parameter to say what the problem is specifically. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 03:28, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Sungodtemple I may have misstated. For clarity I am asking if a Template such as Template:Lead too long would be alright to add in this situation. My confusion stems from template saying to "Please discuss this issue on the article's talk page", thus making me unsure if I need to discuss the issue in the article's talk page before adding the template, despite the lead currently having more then the 3 or 4 paragraphs stated as appropriate for it's length in MOS:LEADLENGTH. I am also unsure if an article is allowed to have more than one template at a time. Planetberaure (talk) 04:00, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Planetberaure, it's fine on both accounts. — Qwerfjkltalk 07:44, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Alright, thank you! Planetberaure (talk) 17:09, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Linking articles quickly

Hello, I just created a new article that I transferred from Simple Wikipedia and removed the redirect, Lisa M. Montgomery. There are lots of pages that have her name in them and it will take a long time to link all of them to the Lisa page. Is there a tool I can use to speed the process? Another thing, the new article is not shown on the new pages feed or any other system or this, Is there a reason? Thanks!`~HelpingWorld~` ^(👽🛸) 06:04, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@HelpingWorld, see https://edwardbetts.com/find_link/Lisa_M._Montgomery — Qwerfjkltalk 07:45, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Need help to carrect the causes of an artcle decline

Vinegarymass911 Thanks a lot, and I appreciate your concern and the short note attached to my article where you mentioned the cause of decline! I am learning with time. I will definitely edit the area where 'Blogs, Amazon, and articles written by him' is used. Can you enlighten me a bit more about this part, Should i absolutely avoid his own articles and other's 'blog post' in the entire article, or just the part that deals with 'notability"? i mean, can i cite from his own article to describe his opinion about something? regards. Morshedul Alam Talukdar (talk) 06:42, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Morshedul Alam Talukdar Welcome to Teahouse! Wikipedia is not interested in what a subject has to say about themselves (including their own blog posts), because Wikipedia is interested in WP:SECONDARY sourcing, meaning, what do other people say about him? Additionally I noticed you are WP:OVERCITING in your draft random words, that link to WP:DISAMBIGUATION articles instead of actually relevant links. E.g. Modern is so broad of a term, it doesn't enhance the draft. Also link to Draft:Rifat Hasan next time, so people know what draft you are referring to. Happy editing! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 12:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

The Ajuran Empire was not shared in Somali History

The Ajuran Sultanate (Empire) was not shared in Somali history. The Ajuran Empire (Sultanate) ruled East Africa (Large Part of Somalia) from 13th Century to 18th century. The editor limits their history as that of middle ages. It is obvious that the Ajuran Sultanate existed three hundred years past the middle ages. Their Trump card is they defeated the Portuguese and saved East African from certain exploitations of their people. Also saved the Islamic world as the Portuguese would have used Somalia as stepping stone to conquer the Arabian peninsula from the South. I am requesting permission to add such important Somali Empire that had navy to add the History of Somalis. Let not ignorance or tribal minded historian undermine such powerful empire as they may have a narrow minded tribal limited ambitions and deny such powerful part of Somali history. A history that every Somali and African should be proud of knowing the Somali Armada of Ships attacking the Portuguese Navy in 16th century. Yes, the Ajuran Empire denied the Portuguese ambition of conquering East Africa by limiting their colony to Mozambique. Sofala (go plow in Somali) in Mozambique was the Ajuran Empire sentinel was located to watch any Portuguese movement north from there. SomaliAmerican1 (talk) 07:34, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Ajuran Sultanate   Maproom (talk) 10:02, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello, SomaliAmerican1, and welcome to the Teahouse. You do not need permission to add anything to an article, but you do need to cite reliable published sources. I think you may have some difficulties with English (I have no idea what you mean by "was not shared"), so it would probably be best if you start a discussion on Talk:Ajuran Sultanate, explaining what you would like to change in the article, and what are your published sources. It may be that not many people follow that talk page, so you might also put a note on Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Somalia pointing to the talk page discussion that you have started. ColinFine (talk) 11:00, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

New to Wikipedia, strong learner, looking for a mentor

Hi everyone, nice to meet y'all! I hope everyone around the world had a great new year. Let me introduce myself, I am PlainCroissant. I am new to Wikipedia, despite this account being created in April 2022. I aspire to become a Wikipedian as I believe an individual can learn a lot by editing an encyclopedia, as per the saying "knowledge is power". Going forward, I wish to create articles about living people as per BLP policy, edit articles, and improve articles. My niche of interest is music, sports, and comedy. Furthermore, I am looking for a mentor to help me along the way, so I have somebody to provide me clarification regarding any doubts. Kindly ping me by replying here or posting a message on my talk page if you're interested. I am looking forward to meeting you. PlainCroissant (talk) 08:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@PlainCroissant Welcome to Teahouse and English Wikipedia! You can find a list of volunteers willing to mentor at Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user. Happy editing! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 12:39, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey Shushugah: Thanks for your reply, sincerely appreciate it. I'll post the same message there and hopefully I will find someone soon! Take care and have a good day ahead, PlainCroissant (talk) 14:24, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Advice, often repeated here at Teahouse, is put in months attempting to improve existing articles - as part of the learning curve - before attempting to to create articles. Formatting references is non-obvious, so practice getting that right in your Sandbox. Welcome. David notMD (talk) 14:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hey David notMD, thanks for your reply, I will take note of that. PlainCroissant (talk) 15:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Need help with rejected article reasoning

Hi! I am new to entertainment journalism and my first article was on Filmmaker Melicka Jamshidabadi but it got rejected. Are you able to help me fix the article and learn more about how to write my future articles on other notable public figures? The link to my article is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Melicka_Jamshidabadi Ashley Andersons (talk) 08:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

It hasn't been rejected, Ashley Andersons, it has merely been declined. I've tinkered with it a little but I haven't made it more likely to be accepted. From what I read in the draft, Jamshidabadi seems to be what's often called an "emerging" artist. Better to wait till such artists have emerged. Still, if you hope to press ahead, then please link here to three online sources that you believe both (1) are reliable and (2) treat Jamshidabadi and/or her work in depth. -- Hoary (talk) 12:36, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Scientists who already passed away

Currently I try to write about armenian scientists,who already passed away. They have been leaving in Era where was no internet,and all publications are paper. How can I cite their works,if they are no online. 147.92.91.224 (talk) 08:35, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello 147, and welcome to the Teahouse. See WP:OFFLINE. Basically, you include the the info you have in your citation, like title of book/article, publication, pagenumber, ISBN, DOI, author etc, but you don't add a weblink. WP:TUTORIAL has the basics on how to add references properly, and if you want to make edits on WP that can "stick", This is ESSENTIAL. If you haven't checked WP:N and WP:YFA you probably should. Good luck! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:51, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Citing their science publications, while useful to articles about scientists, does not contribute to what Wikipedia calls notability. What is essential is finding references to content in newspapers, etc. written about them. David notMD (talk) 14:46, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

If they're a scientist who worked in academia, a University, you should check WP:NPROF. If they meet any of the criteria there, it is possible to create a Wikipedia article for them. Broadly, the most likely ways to qualify are holding an endowed or named chair, having published a large number of highly-cited works, or being author of a widely-used textbook, winning a major award, or being an elected member of a particularly prestigious learned society. If they have already died, you may be able to find an obituary for them, perhaps published as an editorial by a journal in the field in which they worked. But the academic community tends to be more forgiving of not-quite-independent sources than most of Wikipedia, so even if all you can find is an obituary published by the academic's own university, it can probably be included. We trust Uni professors to be honest about facts. And yes, offline sources are fine; a lot of exciting things happened before the internet, which will remain unknown to 99.9% of the population unless someone goes reading real paper. Good luck! Elemimele (talk) 16:53, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Clarity on reliability issues before re-submitting

Hey there ! Last year I tried to transfer a biographical article from the German-language Wiki to the English one – and I learned that self-referencing is not appropriate and some sources were not viewed as reliable. Now, I want to learn how to get it right. First, I will shorten the article to basics and make it about facts mostly. Still, some questions popped up. May I ask where the right place or who the right person/group is to ask them? Thank you and have a good start into the year, Jens JensOhle PS I read already the relevant help pages and have three more specific questions. (talk) 11:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@JensOhle Guten Rutsch! welcome to Teahouse! This is the right place to ask general/policy questions, as you did. If your questions are super specific to German articles, e.g conventions for citing German legislation/area names, you can also ask on WP:GERMANY. Happy editing/translating! I'm editing from Berlin myself by the way ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 12:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply and greetings from Sweden ;-) ... no, not specific to DE ... may be I just ask them here and we look what will/can resolve?

A) Birthdate – I assume that there is no totally reliable source for that, e.g. nobody checked on Robert de Niro’s driver license or passport. It’s just believed when he stated it to an editor at some point. In my case, when the birthdate of “my” person is known to me by announcements on social media or direct involvement (e.g. having been at a birthday party) and it is stated on de.wikipedia.org for 12 months and not disputed, can I use it then?

B) Facts in artist/band website – After reading through the Wiki article on Reliable Sources, I understood that the primary artist's website contain information about and from "themselves" and are viewed most likely as self-published and questionable sources. My question: When a post is about factual information (a fact that can be verified easily), can it be used? E.g. in my case, the artist becomes part of the band (again).

C) Factual statements by the artist – Same type of question: If an artist states that s/he uses equipment A and B in an interview or podcast, can this be used?

Some part of the rejection last year was around the source for the catalogue of work and I found a confirming source under “WikiProject Albums/Sources”. With clarity on the above, I’d be comfortable to submit a re-newed and shorter article quickly. Thank you. JensOhle (talk) 15:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Source code

C# Abdullahzebari (talk) 11:35, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Abdullahzebari: Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I am afraid that Your post above is not clear enough on what your question is, but perhaps start reading our article about C#. Victor Schmidt (talk) 12:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

John CaMPBELL page leftists vandalism

 Courtesy link: John Campbell (YouTuber)

there is a bit of confusion around about some editings on john campbell page... somebody used as source this:

"Campbell says in the video that the National Institute of Health and the Wuhan Institute of Virology were conducting experiments with monkeypox prior to the outbreak and misleadingly suggests viewers may “draw some parallels” between the origins of the monkeypox outbreak and the origins of SARS-CoV-2."

to modify the wiki page to make him appear like a conspiracy supporter... if you watch the video saying “draw some parallels” he clearly didn't meant the same origin for both viruses...

My question is: how is possible that this source passed like "truth" to the extend to destroy the reputation of a person that always showed respect for scientific methodslike John Campbell...

I say "leftists" because the page used as source ask in popoups to support far left organizations. The very same author of the article is clearly a person in paranoia anti-anti-vaxxers and clearly a Trump hater https://twitter.com/gorskon/status/1378718911831638020 95.157.71.108 (talk) 11:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

If you have a suggestion for the article John Campbell (YouTuber), please make the suggestion at the foot of Talk:John Campbell (YouTuber). Be sure to make it concise, precise, and backed up by reliable sources. -- Hoary (talk) 12:13, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Deleted draft

Hello, there is a draft I cannot find. How do I restore a draft please? thank you, BarI2021 (talk) 12:26, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

BarI2021 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. It depends on the draft and why it was deleted, but WP:REFUND is probably a good place to start. 331dot (talk) 12:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I am not sure but I assume it's due to the fact it wasnt written good nor actions for the last months. BarI2021 (talk) 13:06, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

If this was about Draft:Michal Alberstein, it appears that your request for undeletion of a draft that had timed out due to inactivity was approved. David notMD (talk) 14:53, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

and/or

Some interprising admin should create a WP:and/or article for guidance that corresponds to the and/or article so that editors can cite it to support otherwise excising that awkwardly ambiguous Janus-faced monstrosity from Wikepedia. Kent Dominic·(talk) 14:49, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Kent Dominic Welcome to Teahouse! this is not something an Admin has special rights over. You can create the grammar essay if you're inclined. It would fit well within MOS:And/Or namespace or something similar. That said, this could also be WP:INSTRUCTIONCREEP. A comparable essay (not official policy) is Wikipedia:Comprised of. Be bold and make your case if you wish! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 15:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Courtesy corrected wikilink: MOS#And/or. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195) 51.194.245.235 (talk) 19:23, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello 51.194.245.235 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), MOS would be the wrong target, because that's a Disambiguation page in the Article namespace, whereas the original poster wanted something in the Wikipedia:Project namespace cite/reference in editing discussions. [[MOS:]] is a shortcut for Wikipedia:Manual of Style, e.g Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility is different from Accessibility. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:23, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Edit registration?

I have registered a username Ricaltman about twelve years ago with an email address I no longer have. I can no longer log on, having lost my password. How would I edit my account? 24.75.161.96 (talk) 14:49, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Unfortunately, if you no longer have access to the email address associated with your old account, it is not possible to regain access unless you are able to remember the password. You will need to create a new account and identify it as a successor to your old one("I am User5678, I was previously User1234 but lost access") 331dot (talk) 14:51, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@24.75.161.96. Welcomed to the teahouse, if you want to edit in a new account, you need to follow Wikipedia:LEGITSOCK Lemonaka (talk) 16:48, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Martial arts infobox for Robert Downey Jr.

Hi, I have been adding a small martial arts info box to a page but they delete it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robert_Downey_Jr.#Martial_Arts_infobox why can't it stay? I find editors on this page don't allow regular users to make changes. The info box is constructive, in one day viewers have opened it and clicked on Eric Oram's page his stats show a jump from 59 views in a day to 118 just cause of the box. The are over a dozen quality references stating Downey trains Wing Chun he even went on Oprah to discuss it and show where he trains and with who. The photo in the info box show three notable persons so it is relevant. I don't understand what the problem is cause the info box is small and collapsible doesn't take up space but very interesting to fans. Australianblackbelt (talk) 15:52, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Australianblackbelt, you might misunderstand the purpose of Wikipedia. It is foremost an encyclopedia, so content should not be oriented towards fans or getting more page views. The martial arts infobox portrays Robert Downey Jr. as a martial artist, which is true, but not important enough to include in detail. He is *mostly* an actor. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 16:38, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Australianblackbelt: there was also a referencing issue. Although you've given citations, which is good, one of them contains a url to facebook, which is almost never a reliable source to anything. The reference claims to be to a Spanish newspaper, which would be a good source. I'm guessing the fb url is either a photo of the newspaper, or someone saying the newspaper says it. If the latter, it's not a reliable source. If the former, it's a real problem because the fb page would almost certainly be a breach of copyright, and we never link to breaches of copyright. It would have been better to cite the newspaper without giving a url, assuming you are utterly sure the newspaper supports the fact. But given that he's primarily an actor and producer, an info-box as a martial artist is probably a step too far, so the point is moot. Elemimele (talk) 16:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

The photo is more appropriate where you put it after your three (!) attempts at a second infobox were reverted. David notMD (talk) 16:46, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

recent edits

I recently made edits. One was pointed out needing a better reference. My changes have been deleted. Is there someone to talk with or can I get a number of questions answered? Thanks.Speaker Tom Murphy Migliare (talk) 16:59, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

• Courtesy link: Tom Murphy (Georgia politician) 331dot (talk) 17:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Migliare Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You are welcome to ask your questions here, or you may ask the user who removed your edits directly on their own user talk page, or the article talk page(Talk:Tom Murphy (Georgia politician). I think that the main issue is that you provided no source for your edits. 331dot (talk) 17:03, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Migliare We welcome new editors like yourself but there can be a steep learning curve. You need to read some of the links provided on your own Talk Page, especially the one about our process of being bold but discussing reverts on the Talk Page of articles. Wikipedia content evolves based on consensus but all substantive additions need references to reliable sources. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:11, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Rather than making so many changes as one large edit, break into pieces. That way, some changes may have merit and will remain, while other will be challenged and needed to be taking to the Talk page to reach consensus. David notMD (talk) 18:00, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

English

life science 41.114.147.243 (talk) 17:11, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello, do you have a question to ask regarding editing? Blanchey (talk) 17:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Are you looking for our List of life sciences? Shantavira|^{feed me} 17:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy New Years Greetings

I would like to send out several hundred more 'Happy New Years' greetings. I planned on making this a once a year tradition, as I have only had my account since February of 2022 or so, but have made 13,000+ edits, mostly reverting vandalism. I found this activity to be helpful in getting to see other editors talk pages, as well as spreading joy and love to the most productive editors (by edit count) on the encyclopedia. These people work tirelessly to improve the encyclopedia and thus deserve some thanks in my view. That said, I was recently blocked for doing this by user RoySmith and then promptly unblocked. As you can see, many editors see this as a harmless and helpful activity. I would like to see about gaining WP:Consensus though BEFORE continuing to send any more 'Happy New Years' messages of love, so that I do not violate the terms of my (very brief) block. See the details on the block and block discussion here, and if this is NOT the place to try and seek feedback on this block, or more appropriately, the consensus on terms that would allow for me to proceed with sending holiday love, then please just direct me to where best to send this message. TY — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 18:44, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

• I've commented at AN as well, but what I'll say to the question here is that the best way to send out these messages is to send them to editors with whom you've already interacted in the course of day-to-day editing, and not on the basis of being in the top number of edits-by-account. Think of it as quality rather than quantity. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:55, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I have never interacted with Moops before, and I appreciated his New Year Wishes on my Talk page. In my opinion, it wasn't disruptive, but made my day brighter. — hike395 (talk) 20:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

• I really don't see any problem with sending a bit of New Year cheer. You're not spamming it indiscrimately, but choosing people you think deserve it (and seeing as I got one, your judgment is obviously good ;-). I might suggest slowing down a bit, though, in case any other trigger-happy bot hunters are lying in wait. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:02, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

  @Moops @Hike395 @Boing! said Zebedee This is a related focus of WP:WikiProject Editor Retention, which Teahouse is closely part of. While Wikipedia is WP:NOTSOCIALMEDIA, it is nice to acknowledge the humans (and dogs) behind the screens. Full encouragement from my end too! Thank you! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:38, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Instead of "only people you interact with", may I suggest that Moops can give New Year's wishes on User Talk pages that don't already have New Year's wishes? I can see adding a second (or subsequent) New Years greeting could be annoying and considered spam, but the first one seemed nice (to me, at least). — hike395 (talk) 22:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Actually, these two criteria are not mutually exclusive (by which I mean "in addition to", rather than "instead of"). These things are matters of subjective judgment, rather than an algorithm. I just don't think that everyone-with-more-than-a-certain-number-of-edits is a good way to choose recipients, especially when Moops is being careful not to attract unwelcome attention. But I think you make a good point about avoiding people who already have a similar message. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Let me make another suggestion. If you are going to do this, make a user subpage or something explaining what you're doing, and include a link to it in the edit comment. Then the next time some admin comes along and thinks they're looking at an unauthorized bot, they'll be able to figure out what's going on. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:15, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

That is a great suggestion RoySmith, but I have never created one before. Can you help with that please? And then I might reword it or edit it to suit what I am trying to do? I am sure you can agree that this misunderstanding (of me looking like a bot) caused a lot of wasted time and unnecessary distress for those involved. TY — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 23:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I just don't know what a "user sub-page" really is, to be clear of my ask. TY — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 23:22, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Add more location details to an infobox

How can I add things like:

• County
• Post Town
• Postcode Area
• Postcode District etc

To a template like Template:Infobox building? Danstarr69 (talk) 19:09, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Danstarr69 Hello, because the page is protected, you’d have to get a template editor to make the edits on your behalf, and for that to happen, you’d need to get consensus for those sections to be added. Blanchey (talk) 19:15, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Blanchey and how do I do that?

I've only started using the building infobox recently, as it's a better template for buildings, however the extra location details I've suggested I would have thought should have been added in the first place, as the specific location is the most important thing about a building in my opinion. Danstarr69 (talk) 19:25, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

You would have to start a discussion on the templates talk page. Hope this helps, Blanchey (talk) 19:28, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Danstarr69 from a technical point of view, address/location data is rather complex, which is why I see the longitude/latitude coordinates being preferable, because they can automatically render a map/location. That said, if changing the template doesn't work, you can always embedd another template inside. E.g.

{{Infobox building
| name =
| <!-- etc. -->
| embedded = 
  {{Infobox ABC
  | embed = yes <!-- or child=yes or subbox=yes-->
  | <!-- etc. -->
  }}
}}

~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:32, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Clean My Talk Pages

can i just for clean delete my all talk pages? or, something else. Ajrun Amir'za-da (talk) 19:13, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Ajrun Amir'za-da Hello, talk pages are usually not deleted as discussions are really important and are usually kept for reference. If you want to clean your talk page, you can always blank it, I would be happy to do that for you if you don’t know how to. Blanchey (talk) 19:17, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Sure i would be happy if you do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajrun Amir'za-da (talk • contribs)

That’s done for you. If any other editor has an issue with me doing this, feel free to revert me. Blanchey (talk) 19:29, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Ajrun Amir'za-da @Blanchey Welcome to Teahouse! In most cases, you're allowed to blank your own User Talk page. See WP:BLANKING for further clarifications. Happy editing and blanking! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:13, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Shushugah Hi, thanks for clarifying, and pointing out that essay. Happy editing! Blanchey (talk) 22:24, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Drafting vs publishing

At what point does an article get published? I began an article in my sandbox, to make sure I really understood what I was doing. At some point all of a sudden it was apparently visible to all and got deleted because it was considered to have violated copyright. I wanted to keep correcting the content but couldn't because it had been removed. How to keep an article in the sandbox until it is really ready? Km4water (talk) 20:00, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

As soon as you save content anywhere on Wikipedia it is published and is viewable by anybody. Your draft was an unambiguous copyright infringement of https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/water-overview/protecting-freshwater/canada-water-agency-stakeholder-public-engagement-what-we-heard.html, https://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2021/0812/Canada-gets-serious-about-water-woes.-Will-Indigenous-voices-be-heard, and other sources, so was speedy deleted. Theroadislong (talk) 20:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

My question is: does the content created in the Sandbox get shared right away? If not, at what point? Km4water (talk) 20:07, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Welcome back to the Teahouse, Km4water. While the draft you started in your sandbox was moved to what is called "draftspace", that had no bearing on its visibility or deletion. Every page on Wikipedia is visible to other editors/readers as soon as it's saved. Sandbox pages need to comply with copyright rules as much as "published" articles. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:09, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

All edits to every page and article on Wikipedia appear in the Recent Changes feed, which is usually monitored by many editors, even if the page itself is not otherwise highly visible. If you don't want people to see what you are doing, don't put it on Wikipedia. 331dot (talk) 20:11, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

OK so it is safer to draft offline and then upload it. I know that the whole point is to allow editing right away so that content gets improved, but there is a big risk of discouraging would-be editors if everything they have worked on is quickly deleted. Copyright infringement is serious but perhaps the best way of dealing with it is with an edit of the offending section. That way the originator learns what is OK and can go about replacing what has been deleted with something better. Currently, the experience feels more like a thuggish 'seek and punish' operation rather than a collaboration. Km4water (talk) 20:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Km4water You are welcome to write a draft here if it is not a copyright violation. We must take those seriously as they potentially put this project in legal jeopardy if they are allowed. Preferably, an article should be original content that summarizes what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the topic. 331dot (talk) 20:23, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Km4water: Unfortunately, every revision is public when changes are saved and published, so even if you tweak the content, the original infringing material is still viewable from the article's history until an admin scrubs it. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:42, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you -- that is useful to know. Wikipedia says that the sandbox is a "testing spot and page development space for the user and is not an encyclopedia article". Somewhat misleading, as one assumes that only published encyclopedia articles are available to view.

If someone other than the originator goes in to edit a published article and infringes copyright, will the entire article be deleted or just the edited section? Km4water (talk) 20:49, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Generally if an earlier revision exists where copyright isn't infringed, changes get rolled back to that one and all the offending diffs become inaccessible from the article's history. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 21:03, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

That makes sense -- thank you. Km4water (talk) 21:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Km4water I've only created 2 articles (as far as I remember. It's possible I've created a few more that I've forgotten about), while the rest of my edits have been to improve existing articles.

However what I would do if I was you, would be to do what I've done with an article I started years ago, but haven't touched in years so isn't published yet...

What did I do? I saved it on one of my private Blogger blogs, just like I do with practically every piece of useful information I find, or list that I write, so that I can update/share/publish it at a later date. Danstarr69 (talk) 20:48, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for that tip. It is easy to see how uncertainty/fear prevents more engagement with this resource. I am thinking that the best approach, if you think something is important enough to include in Wikipedia, may be to create a stub, wait for edits, and then slowly add in more content. Km4water (talk) 20:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

The BEST approach is not to copy and paste anything on Wkipedia, it's quite simple. Theroadislong (talk) 21:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that is clear. I wonder what impact the use of AI summarizers will have. Km4water (talk) 21:04, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

@Km4water I think AI writing tools are going to become a nightmare for many people, and internet at large. I was involved in testing some unreleased AI software tools for blog-writing recently. My feedback to them included my views that I find the idea of half-writing a blog post and letting the software finish the job by searching for other content on the internet and then creating new sub-topics and sections, all artificially, to be utterly horrendous in the extreme. Not only does it take away creativity and fact-checking, it will mean that, eventually, a vast amount of content on the web will be written by AI, based predominantly on other AI-written content which, in turn, was partly written by other AI tools. I don't mind tools offering to rewrite a sentence or paragraph, but to vomit out AI blog posts in this way will fill the internet with more and more banal mush. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

I do not understand what you mean by, "Thanks for that tip." 98.97.116.80 (talk) 21:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello IP editor - I have joined your question into the thread above, as it clearly related to it. "Thanks for that tip" is another way of saying "thank you for making a good suggestion" - namely, to save certain content away from Wikipedia on a private website or personal computer file until you're ready to share it on Wikipedia. Hope that clears things up for you if English isn't your primary language. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Encyclopedia.com has an entry for Nolan Davis 1942

Is he eligible for a Wikipedia page? https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/davis-nolan-1942 2600:8802:3A12:E700:65F6:ED00:6F05:B184 (talk) 22:38, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello IP user, the mere existence of an Encyclopedia.com entry does not connote notability, nor verifiability in secondary sources, because Encyclopedia.com (like Wikipedia) is a WP:TERTIARY source. Sometimes it cites notable WP:SECONDARY sources and sometimes it doesn't. See Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_279#Encyclopedia.com for discussion on the Publisher. Regarding David Nolan specifically, can you find 2-3 secondary and independent WP:SIGCOV sources? Happy editing and citation researching! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:43, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the information

https://www.encyclopedia.com/education/news-wires-white-papers-and-books/davis-nolan-1942

https://worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n85301213/

https://bbip.ku.edu/1970-1972

Ebony

https://books.google.com/books?id=YHZ2VMzAqpkC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=nolan+davis+six+black+horses&source=bl&ots=RvdiZQhUz6&sig=ACfU3U1VY_-3TuntUPTc3AE4FfdT1qOv_g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizib2k_Kn8AhWAEEQIHWNjDlc4HhDoAXoECAIQAw#v=onepage&q=nolan%20davis%20six%20black%20horses&f=false

Newsweek

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Newsweek/JvHjAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=nolan+davis+six+black+horses&dq=nolan+davis+six+black+horses&printsec=frontcover

And on Newspaper.com I found three write-ups on his book. 2600:8802:3A12:E700:CCA3:3F83:6AF5:C0F1 (talk) 23:03, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

https://www.newspapers.com/image/7569120/?terms=six%20black%20horses%20nolan&match=1

https://www.newspapers.com/image/385576226/?terms=six%20black%20horses%20nolan&match=1

https://www.newspapers.com/image/99105353/?terms=six%20black%20horses%20nolan&match=1

https://www.newspapers.com/image/438045088/?terms=six%20black%20horses%20nolan&match=1

https://www.newspapers.com/image/359907814/?terms=six%20black%20horses%20nolan&match=1

https://www.newspapers.com/image/625439292/?terms=six%20black%20horses%20nolan&match=1

https://www.newspapers.com/image/675979185/?terms=six%20black%20horses%20nolan&match=1

https://www.newspapers.com/image/853540502/?terms=six%20black%20horses%20nolan&match=1

https://www.newspapers.com/image/816460432/?terms=six%20black%20horses%20nolan&match=1 2600:8802:3A12:E700:CCA3:3F83:6AF5:C0F1 (talk) 23:23, 2 January 2023 (UTC)