Talk:Irma Grese

I wonder why Irma Grese was such horrible person. Is it true that she was a victim of the war. I am not a symperthizer of Nazis. But I fell really sorry for this young lady and even more sorry for the all the jews killed in the war. If she had been born in a peace time she not only would had lived a normal life by becoming a lover, wife and a mother but also would shown great courage and bravery in her work. It is indeed sad she treated jewish prisoners with animilistic treatment. It is very sad that she choses children to be gassed. But my view is that she should have been spared from hanging as she was a minor and a teenager at the time of the crime occured. (Irshad Cassim - Sri Lanka)

It seems perfectly obvious that she was a depraved psychopath. Obviously, in peace time her behaviour would soon have landed her in jail and on the block. - Norvo, 00:08 UTC, 18 June 2006

Irma Grese

It's probably true that Irma Grese would have led a normal life if not for the war. But It's difficult to have sympathy for someone so cruel, especially considering her alleged collection of lampshades. It has been suggested that she was a nymphonanic, but according to the morality of the time, this may merely have meant she had a high sex drive. If she was mentally ill, she should have been spared. I have also read that her story inspired the Moors murderer Myra Hindley. Does anyone know if there's any truth in this?

Terry Huggins. Hastings. England.

Another Wikipedia Travesty

It is a bias Wiki-Travasty!--Nikbar Sini 04:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Irma Grese was a simple farm girl who became a postal clerk at Belsen. Does anyone believe a girl this beautiful would bed with some lice ridden camp criminals? Short biography — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.12.194.210 (talk)

Nice to see the latest generations of Nazi's are still at it. Oh well, they are sooooo amusing though, poor things! --RobNS 23:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Who would want to make love to a crule woman, who looks like a man in a frock?! Homer slips- 05.54 UDC, Dec'21, 2006.

A source-

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6142/irma.html --Homer slips. 03:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright violations

Portions of this article appear to be copied verbatim from [judicial-inc.biz/Irma_Grese_by_redirect.htm]. Also, the web page from which the text is taken appears very sympathetic to her and the Nazis in general. 66.30.14.1 09:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is indeed something to consider. That website seems to be either pro-Nazi, holocaust-denying, or both. JHMM13 (T | C)

00:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whether you are pro or anti nazi the facts stay the same. --88.109.191.249 14:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Calm talk

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

--86.25.52.108 06:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality

I read this article for research a few months ago and whilst the early parts appear the same, most of the latter half appears to have been substantially re-edited in her favour, as well as certain other statements (eg. the executioner's suicide) which didn't appear in the earlier article at all. It is also interesting that none of this supposedly verifiable information is referenced in any way.

DG, Leeds, UK

I've added 3 ^{[citation needed]} tags to the dogy bits on her love life. --Homer slips. 03:54, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the POV-tag is misplaced. It should not refer to "War crimes" but to "Beautiful Beast". The "War crimes" section is, in my view, factual and neutral. It just tells what she was accused of, and convicted for. The only factual mistake here seems to be the date of her conviction - I don't believe she was hanged the same day!

Found meanwhile the correct date of conviction in a German document [1] and changed it.--Kauko56 23:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The "Beautiful Beast" section, however, dwells on her (alleged) lovers or sexual preferences and is therefore irrelevant for her place in history, or her legal guilt. The references for this section do not point to sources but to tabloid press clippings. If we want to shed some light on who she was as a person (not: as a criminal) we should at least try to get better sources.
These are the reasons why I removed the POV-Tag from "War Crimes" and placed it on "Beautiful Beast". --Kauko56 23:34, 25 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've been studying Mengele for a long time, and nowhere have I ever heard that he took Irma Grese as a lover. If anything, he was fiercely loyal to his wife, Irene, and she even lived with him at Auschwitz for about a year. I think a lot of this article is wishful thinking, trying to make another cruel SS guard into some romantic heroine. --Rebecca, Myrtle Beach SC 10/07/06

War Crimes?

Framed by "...hysterical Jewesses that wanted blood" ? The whole section is neo-Nazi claptrap.

I'm sorting out the Neo-Nazis, dros, crap, Sh1t and kods-wolp tomorrow. I've also got a bundel of links I'm adding to! --Homer slips. 03:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Last Paragraph

Even without knowing the true facts, anyone can see that the last paragraph on the subject of Irma Grese is Nazi Propaganda. Get rid of it!

Edited as of 10/8/06 into more or less the same state it was in previously - which, oddly, did include the bit about the ghost.

DG, Leeds

Ghost Story

I don't know where the ghost story regarding Krema 3 came from with the night watchman in 1948 - all the gas chambers and crematoria were destroyed by the guards (other than one blown up by prisoners) in 1945

It is posibal that the devil may have kicked out of hell in disgust!!! --Homer slips. 03:39, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neo-Nazis Again Pushing Their Pseudo-Heroine

The Neo-Nazis are at it again, massaging the article and trying to promote this depraved individual into some kind of glorious and victimized Aryan milkmaid. We'll have to keep an eye on this -- either that or have the article protected in some reasonably neutral form. I'd hate to have some innocent kid stumble across it in its current form and assume it's for real.

Irma Grese was never SS, because the SS never allowed women. How anyone can believe the crap about her skinning Jews is beyond the pale. She was a simple farm girl that worked at a camp, she was paid by German labor dept.

She was a sadistic guard and liked to beat people with her wip, but did not have Ilsa Koch's type 'skin lampshades' in her office. --Lilidor 06:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Nazis Again Pushing Their Pseudo-Hate Figure

Parts of this "encyclopedic article" are taken from a webpage which also states the following: 'In her hut were found the skins of three inmates that she had had made into lamp shades'. Am I alone, really, in struggling with the utter harebrained stupidity of that preposterous claim and if such a claim could be made, and people would believe it, surely it puts the rest of the charges under extreme strain and a posthumous pardon should be considered for this young lady. --88.111.194.14 14:48, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My grandfather is a WWII vet that was part of the company that liberated Auschwitz, and one of the things he has told me about, many times, were the lampshades made of human skin. Apparently they prized skin with birthmarks or tattooes. He has also seen (and I have seen a photo he snapped of this) a human pelvic bone polished and stained, being used as an ashtray holder.

A posthumous pardon would be neither here nor there; her crimes have been committed and she is surely suffering for them. --Rebecca, Myrtle Beach SC 7/10/06

Time will tell, and I am sure it will favour her. --88.110.142.244 23:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed bits

I removed today the following bit from the "Execution" section:

"to be hanged by Ronald Cook, assisted by Regimental Sergeant-Major O'Neill." Reason: The name "Richard Cook" was not supported by sources. The name O'Neill stems from Pierrepoint's autobiography, but there is no evidence that already the verdict contained the names of executioner and assistant, which the article'S wording seemed to imply.

Second bit removed: "One of the hangmen, Ronald Cook, refused to hang Griese. Major Jerome Burdik ordered him to and that night he went home and shot himself. Afterwards two American military policemen Sgt O'Hare and Cpl Rick Smith also were court marshaled for refusing to walk Irma to the gallows and a civilian hangman had to be flown in from Britain for the task."

It is correct that the "civilian hangman" Pierrepoint was flown in, but everything else is unsupported by sources and seems to be taken from ://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/irma_grese_beast_of_auschwitz which, in turn, does not give sources either. Apart from this, the claim that American military policemen had been involved in any way is incredible since Belsen as well as Hameln were in the British Occupation Zone where U.S. soldiers had no function whatsoever. Details as dotty as that destroy the credibility of everything else as well.

The weblink quoted above was removed from the "External links" section as well since it was inserted to support the sentence that "Three different hangmen refused to hang Irma Grese", a claim for which there is no support in the website quoted, and which seems to serve no purpose except portraying Grese as a victim so innocent that it was evident even to the executioners...

I find it typical and disturbing that changes of this type are regularly made by people who go by an IP address rather than using an account. It sheds some light on their courage - or lack of same. --Kauko56 18:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree about those number only guys, Kauko56! --Homer slips. 04:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protection.

I think it needs it in order to get rid of that small band of ' Irma ghoast-hunters' cranks, odd-balls and disruptive 'I.P. number olny guys'. Anything to do witht Word war 2 war-crimes needs a close watch to.

--Homer slips. 05:00, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Intresting inks

//www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Grese.htm

//www.justiceatdachau.com/bio.htm

//militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/irma_grese_beast_of_auschwitz

//www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Bormann.htm

//www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Mandel.htm

//www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Bothe.htm

--Homer slips. 04:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd just like to point out that the cwporter.com link leads to a anti-jewish nutter conspiracy hate site. The greencastle.k12.pa.us link is to a schoolgirl that seems to have made a quilt (blanket) commemorating Nazi women (very odd, not encyclopedic). Justiceatdachau.com, although an interesting book is about Dachau and Buchenwald prosecutions (nothing to do with Irma Grese). People seem to mix up Ilse Koch (The Bitch of Buchenwald) with Irma Grese. The wikipedia link is to... here. --Eqdoktor 06:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rationale- I thought the quilt was an intresting new off-shoot which involve Irma. Encyclopedic? The silly cwporter sight was a bit to 'mustard' after all. It apears not alternate veipoint, just wieard! As for the link from this page to this page- It's a error, I wanted Ilse Koch, but cut and paisted the wrong one. --Homer slips. 04:53, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Some clean up

Added a picture (public domain mugshot), my non-NPOV opinion is that shes no beauty by modern standards. Deleted the last of the unsourced "beautiful beast" items that just cannot be verified outside of unreliable gossipy websites. If you can find more respectable sources/testimonies about her deviant behavior in camps, your welcome to put it back in (with ref cites). Removed the haunting stuff which is unencyclopedic hearsay. If you have a decent article (not gossip mags) that specifically addresses the fact that her ghost haunts Auschwitz - you can put it back in (again citing sources). Removed the lamp shade statement, I know its been mentioned in a lot of other sites (and some of them respectable) but its an urban myth [2][3] that seems to have mixed up Irma Grese with Ilse Koch. Nazi Horrors need no embellishments. Article still needs a lot of work, specifically in citing sources. --Eqdoktor 13:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed "Irma's Defense" section, the only source of her quotes are from hate websites. There's no way, no how I will direct traffic to those places to cite them. Refer to Wikipedia policies on external links. --Eqdoktor 17:01, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]