Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lindsey Cardinale (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. This has been open for the better part of a month, and all I'm seeing here is no consensus to do anything at all. Courcelles (talk) 09:11, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lindsey Cardinale

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American Idol also-ran. Almost no sources, no notability per WP:MUSIC. Contains speculation/OR such as "In late 2007, it was announced that Lindsey had signed with Aria Records Nashville. Her name has since been removed from their website and it appears that Aria Records has released Cardinale from her contract." (As an aside, Aria Records has not proven notable enough for an article.) A search for sources turned up only information dating from her time on American Idol, absolutely nothing after the fact. She appeared on a Christmas album compilation which is also up at AFD for lack of notability. Last AFD was closed as speedy keep due to disruption. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Many otters • One bat • One hammer)} 20:04, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 00:58, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Should have been deleted a year ago. Unable to locate sufficient reliable third-party sources independent of the subject to establish WP:N. Does not appear to meet WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO. J04n(talk page) 12:25, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The article was previously unreferenced, but just now I've added several citations, over several years up to 2009. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 20:28, 3 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:MUSIC #4 #1 and #9. Aspects (talk) 06:56, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I hate to badger but I'm not seeing that she meets 4 or 9. I only see "occasional Idol-related performances" with only one show referenced and she came in 12th on Idol, not what I would consider placing. Her biggest non-Idol accomplishment is that she was a spokesperson for a local auto dealer? one non-charting single? I could go for Merge to American Idol (season 4) but anything else would be far too generous. J04n(talk page) 01:46, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I do not know what I was thinking, I meant to put #1 with the newly found sources by Paul Erik. I do consider being a finalist on American Idol as placing in a major music competition. Aspects (talk) 17:57, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Being an Idol finalist alone confers notability. This seems to be the established threshold by the wikiproject, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Idol series#Guidelines, as well. Tarc (talk) 13:12, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to American Idol (season 4). Accomplishments and coverage not significant enought to pass WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO.--137.122.49.102 (talk) 17:17, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:03, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Second relist rationale. The article is a BLP. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:04, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect don't delete the history, the article can be recovered if she does anything notable outside placing 12th on a local tv show. Miami33139 (talk) 02:45, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
American Idol is a local TV show? I think the coverage is enough to pass WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO criterion #1, although just barely. There are a couple of newspaper articles that are about her specifically. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 03:09, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I'm unconvinced there's enough coverage to pass GNG, even if they are a finalist. If they are and they're notable then there should be substantial coverage elsewhere too. Shadowjams (talk) 09:05, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Celebrity is not notability, American Idol finalist or not.Mtiffany71 (talk) 19:21, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In response to the last two, we're not dealing with WP:GNG here. We're dealing with WP:MUSICBIO, where an Idol finalist meets #9 and maybe #12. Also the WikiProject (WP:IDOL) appears to have dealt with this issue time and time again, and looking through the history of various AFDs, I see broad precedent for the creation of articles on finalists. Tarc (talk) 21:11, 16 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

American Idol is an elimination competition. There's no "2nd place." There's one winner, and everyone else loses. No one places, ergo #9 does not apply. And that she appeared on the series does not make her the subject of the series, ergo #12 does not apply.Mtiffany71 (talk) 00:18, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Er, no, there is nothing even remotely true in what you just said. Tarc (talk) 02:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Cirt (talk) 19:22, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Agree with above comments, by Mtiffany71 (talk · contribs), J04n (talk · contribs), and TenPoundHammer (talk · contribs). She got 12th place, that's nice. But there does not really seem to be enough there in terms of significant coverage. Subject fails WP:NOTE. -- Cirt (talk) 19:29, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just to reiterate what I said in the deletion review I was unsure how to respond to others' comments here, because others are not stating what is insufficient about the sources I added. Multiple reliable sources discuss the subject, some of the articles discuss her exclusively—that usually is enough for WP:NOTE, is it not? Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 19:41, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Clearly meets WP:N given the sources added by Paul Erik. I'm curious why those who feel she fails WP:N believe that when there are three sources that cover her in depth. Hobit (talk) 22:57, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete 12th place is not notable enough, not made a celebrity. Losing finalists who lost their fame after American Idol. Well, the show is a signing competition, not a local event. ApprenticeFan ^work 02:20, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A review of the reliable and verifiable sources provided in the article that are about the article's subject meets the Wikipedia Notability standard. Alansohn (talk) 02:21, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - It does appear this topic has received significant coverage from reliable secondary sources, thus passing WP:NOTE and its WP:GNG. --Oakshade (talk) 03:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Passes WP:MUSICBIO and indeed WP:GNG by having received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I can't see a policy-based delete rationale here. Alzarian16 (talk) 08:59, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
comment: When I first !voted on this AfD it was unreferenced. I now went back and have decided not to change my !vote. Other than finishing 12th on American Idol Ms Cardinale has twice performed at Ponchatoula's Strawberry Festival, become the spokesperson for the Bill Hood Automotive Family in Southern Louisiana, switched her major to journalism, released a single that did not chart, and signed with a label and produced no albums in 3 years. Is there coverage? Apparently yes. Of anything notable? I'm not seeing it. This page should be redirected to American Idol (season 4). J04n(talk page) 09:19, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Coverage of something which you consider notable isn't required, just coverage. Otherwise, were I in charge, we'd have no articles on porn stars or any but the most notable athletes. We've agreed on WP:N as a way of judging notability. Yes, there can be exceptions to it (it's a guideline after all) but if you really want to replace WP:N with "I do or don't personally think this is notable" that's a pretty big step and I'd ask that you reconsider it. Hobit (talk) 13:07, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If that were the case every highschool quarterback would be notable. I'm sorry but coverage of her appearances in a strawberry festival are not going to convince me that she is a notable subject. Spirit of the law should not be trumped by letter of the law.J04n(talk page) 13:42, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Significant coverage in 3 states is unlikely in a HS quarterback and is a darn good sign of notability. Heck, honestly coverage of a HS quarterback in any detail is rare these days. I've not seen any such coverage in our local paper in the last 10 years. To see multiple RSes providing non-trivial coverage of a HS Quarterback would actually be a pretty good indication of notability. Hobit (talk) 15:27, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep The article needs some work, particularly in the opening paragraph where notability is supposed to be indicated (should mention her modelling, spokesperson and recording deal), but the sources and content in the rest of the article indicates that the subject is somewhat notable. Freakshownerd (talk) 14:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The article just does not tell us why she is important, as nice a person as she seems to be. Also, press coverage gives us permission to have an article on someone -- but it does not compel us to have one if there is nothing important for people to know about the person. Also if 1,000 years from now, when there will have been hundreds of Idol-like shows, is WP going to have an article on every finalist? That could be millions of people.Borock (talk) 04:14, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.