Talk:Armenian genocide

Popular misconception on Armenian Genocide

This was Armenian Christian Genocide, true, ordered by Young Turks Triumvirate headed by Talat/Talaat Pasha, but genocide was also extermination of Assyrian and Greek Christians. Ottomans and Turks (same connotation) did not want them on their lands even though they lived there for centuries. 170.239.49.92 (talk) 06:41, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

The article already mentions this. However, since Greeks and Assyrians are not Armenians, it is mainly covered in separate Wikipedia articles. (t · c) buidhe 07:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Forced Islamization of Armenian women and children, again…

The editors’ attention has already been invited to the widely known fact that Armenian males were also forcibly Islamized during the Armenian Genocide. One Wikipedia editor even agreed that an addition must be made. Yet the opening clause still states that only Armenian women and children were Islamized. There are, literally, tons of reliable secondary sources, including many mentioned in Sources beneath this article, which testify to the fact that Armenian men were also subjected to forced Islamization. Please revise, as this RS-based edit was suggested a long time ago and no objection was raised against it. 68.83.217.103 (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2022 (UTC)Davidian

The article already has all the sources necessary to verify the content

GenoV84 please explain what your addition does to improve the article. When I wrote this FA I ensured to include the best selection of relevant sources, which the added source is not, since its subject is not the Armenian genocide. And do not continue to add anything without conforming to the article's existing style or getting consensus for material that is challenged in good faith per wp:onus. (t · c) buidhe 18:12, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

@Buidhe: This academic, reliable reference that I provided is concerned with the emergence of nationalist movements in the Middle East between the 19th and 20th centuries, especially the Young Turk revolution and the rise to power of the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP) in Ottoman Turkey, which is recognized throughout this article to be responsible for the organization and instigation of genocides against the Armenian, Greek, and Assyrian peoples as part of a broader policy of ethnic erasure during the late Ottoman period. Which means that this source is appropriate for the content of this article and can be added alongside the other references that are already cited here. GenoV84 (talk) 19:18, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Then it seems more appropriate to cite in an article such as rise of nationalism in the Ottoman Empire. This article is about the Armenian genocide, not any broader pattern or the rise of nationalism in general. (t · c) buidhe 19:32, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I agree about that, it would fit better in the article that you just mentioned. Nonetheless, the source explicitly refers to the systematic organization of the late Ottoman genocides by the Turkish government, including the Armenian genocide and those of Greeks and Assyrians as well as part of the CUP's broader policy of ethnic cleansing in Anatolia and the rest of Turkey. These genocides of other Christian populations that lived in the Ottoman Empire are mentioned throughout this article along with the Armenian genocide. I don't see what is the problem with the adding of this source to the article. GenoV84 (talk) 19:40, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Keeping the article short and concise without unnecessary length and complexity helps the accessibility of the article, particularly for those on slower or restricted internet connections. The longer the article, the longer the load time. Adding a source just because it exists is not justified. (t · c) buidhe 21:39, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Quite the contrary. Wikipedia's verifiability policy requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations, anywhere in the article's space. The source that I provided is reliable and appropriate for this article and its content. GenoV84 (talk) 23:19, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

The content already has inline citations sufficient to verify the content. More is not necessarily better. You have not explained how the addition improves the article. (t · c) buidhe 07:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes I did, I explained it above twice. Moreover, many of the statements in the article to which I provided the reference's notes didn't have any reference to support them before my addition. You cannot support your stance against the addition of this reliable source because WP policies and guidelines explicitly require editors to provide references for all the informations and content written on Wikipedia, and that's exactly what I did. GenoV84 (talk) 14:15, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

@GenoV84, the phrases to which you want to add sources are all sourced. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 01:29, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

@Paradise Chronicle: Yes they are, in fact this is not a content dispute. This discussion started because someone reverted my edits, i.e. the addition of an academic, reliable reference that meets the requirements to be added to this article alongside the other reliable sources already cited here. That's all about it. GenoV84 (talk) 01:35, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

This was an answer to your claim just above that much of the info didn't have a reference before your addition. Quote:didn't have any reference to support them before my addition Paradise Chronicle (talk) 01:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Because there were statements without notes before my edits (check and compare the revisions in the article's history), but I never said that the article's core content wasn't supported by the cited references. As I just said above, this is not a content dispute. Moreover, other editors throughout this discussion agreed to keep the reference that I provided and/or didn't oppose against the addition of it. GenoV84 (talk) 02:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I assumed good faith double checked and in all of your additions here, here and here, all phrases are sourced. The green text is one of the phrases you want to source with a page range of 21, while it already has two much better sources at the end of the phrase. In 1908, the CUP came to power in the Young Turk Revolution, which began with a string of CUP assassinations of leading officials in Macedonia.. How does this add to quality? Should wikipedia demand of a reader to search through 21 pages if a revolution took place or 1? Then also the one who's answer you interpreted as a keep for your citation suggested you format the citation like the others which you obviously didn't. I suggest a self revert by you. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 02:52, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I told you three times already that the pagerange of the reference can be limited to pages 221–224, which means only 4 pages to read, and some of the statements in the article lacked notes that I provided along with the source. Yes I did format the reference just like the other ones and moved it to the References section, take a look at it. I'm not going to revert anything because of your ridiculous threats; the academic reference that I provided is reliable and there's no reason to delete it from the article (without consensus, nonetheless). Other editors agreed to keep it. That's it. GenoV84 (talk) 03:41, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

References

This addition by GenoV84 seems okay to me, except we don't need the term ethnic cleansing inserted in front of mass murder—the first term is a euphemism. It's better to use the more accurate term "mass murder". Also, the cite book template needs to be reworked to fit the existing citation style of the article. Otherwise, the addition of the book source doesn't add too much, or take away focus. Binksternet (talk) 22:46, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't see the reasoning for refusing this reference. It is not trying to skew the message of the article, and it doesn't harm the focus. Binksternet (talk) 16:34, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't think references should be added just because they exist if they don't improve the article. I don't think any reasoning for why they improve the article has been provided, given that all content is already verified by existing sources. (t · c) buidhe 17:59, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

As I already said, keeping this reliable source would be an improvement not simply because "it exists", but because many of the statements in the article to which I provided the reference's notes didn't have any reference to support them before my addition. Therefore, adding this source is thoroughly justified and there's no valid reason to remove it. GenoV84 (talk) 18:15, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Could you bother to format the citation like the others if you're so insistent on it? Aza24 (talk) 00:15, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Then perhaps the entire discussion is based on a misunderstanding because any sentences in the article that are not immediately followed by a citation are supported by the next citation given, as is the usual practice on Wikipedia. (t · c) buidhe 04:24, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

I fixed the citation style to that reference as you suggested. GenoV84 (talk) 07:28, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Alleged "failed verification"

I finally managed to get a copy of the book in order to check if it fails verification. Guess what, it does. For example, the book is cited to support "Abdul Hamid's despotism prompted the formation of an opposition movement, the Young Turks,", but it does not say anything that even resembles this. Also, the page range of 21 pages provided is unacceptable at FAC; a shorter range should be provided to ensure verifiability. I know that the references already in the article verify the content because I put them there myself and double checked everything. Please be especially careful when editing featured articles that you don't cause them to become non-compliant with the featured article criteria. (t · c) buidhe 07:11, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

You failed because you refused to check the cited reference and verify it, despite the fact that I also provided the URL address to it and you can read the pages of the cited chapter by yourself. This academic reference is focused on the genocides against the Armenian, Greek, and Assyrian peoples organized and perpetrated by the Turkish government as part of a broader policy of ethnic erasure during the late Ottoman period, therefore it meets all the requirements to be added as a reliable source to this article. Moreover, other editors above have agreed to keep it in the article. GenoV84 (talk) 23:33, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Hm, well, a pagerange of 21 is really very wide much more for an FA. That you @GenoV84 believe you won the argument, makes me feel I have to weigh in. I am also not opposed to add new references, but they must make sense, and 21, hey common, please. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 23:50, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@Paradise Chronicle: We can limit the pagerange of the source to pages 221–224, there's no problem with that. GenoV84 (talk) 00:12, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

This quote from the cited reference clearly demonstrates that you didn't even read it, and still you have the nerve to talk about a "failed verification" that doesn't exist. Unbelievable, absurd, completely dishonest behavior and ridiculous attempt on WP:OWNERSHIP of the article on your part:

In November 1914, as the CUP triumvirate brought the Ottoman Empire into the war against the Allies, the gloves came off on the domestic front as well. Within a year, the Young Turk regime had launched a carefully planned anti-Armenian ethnic-cleansing campaign that rapidly assumed genocidal qualities and proportions. Somewhere in the range of 600,000 to over a million Armenian men, women, and children were murdered or allowed to die amidst their forced transportation from eastern Anatolia to the Syrian desert. The Armenian genocide was the most extreme manifestation of an overarching effort by the CUP leadership to re-engineer the ethno-demographic structure of Anatolia along cohesive Turkish-nationalist lines.

GenoV84 (talk) 23:45, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

• GenoV84 How does this verify what it is cited for, namely "Abdul Hamid's despotism prompted the formation of an opposition movement, the Young Turks"? The quote doesn't say anything about why the Young Turks were formed. Additionally, why are you so insistent about adding this source? Do you have a conflict of interest? (t · c) buidhe 23:53, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@Buidhe: Did you check the cited reference? No, you didn't. Otherwise you would know why I added a note to that statement as well; read pages from 221 to 224. GenoV84 (talk) 00:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

@Paradise Chronicle: Don't play games and accuse me of things that I never claimed. I just pointed out that the alleged "failed verification" never happened simply because buidhe never checked the cited reference in the first place, otherwise they would have read it, as the quote above from page 224 demonstrates. GenoV84 (talk) 23:55, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

@Buidhe: You seem to be so desperate to accuse me of conflict of interest for adding a reliable source among all other academic references already cited in this article, while simultaneously refusing to check the source and verify it, deliberately revert my edits without consensus, and attempting to own the article's content by preventing other editors to make useful edits. GenoV84 (talk) 00:01, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

A page range of 21 downgrades an already well sourced article. Adding references to half of a phrase, that already has a source at the end of the phrase...well does it not source the other half then? I do not know but why add a source with a pagerange of 21 for only half a phrase in an FA. Then providing a misleading quote not mentioning Abdul Hamid to a question mentioning Abdul Hamid isn't really raising the trust. Your behavior neither. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 00:26, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

@Paradise Chronicle: As I already said above, we can limit the pagerange of the source to pages 221–224, there's no problem with that. I can provide as many quotes as you want from the cited reference, including the one about Abdul Hamid and the Young Turk opposition, if you want. My behavior has been consistent and coherent throughout the entire discussion, I have nothing to hide. Unfortunately, the same couldn't be said about the behavior of some other users here.... GenoV84 (talk) 00:33, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

In the first decade of the twentieth century, the Committee of Union and Progress (CUP), informally known as the Young Turks, represented a much more serious and direct challenge to the authority of the sultanate. This movement, operating underground and from exile, was originally constituted in 1889 as a multi-ethnic coalition of activists who shared a common demand for the restoration of the 1876 constitution. [...] For a majority of Turkish speakers of Muslim background in the CUP, it was self-evident that Turkish identity should form the core ingredient in any Ottomanist recipe. It was this faction that refounded a fragmented CUP on its own terms in 1902 and proceeded to penetrate the Ottoman army's officer corps. This was a critical factor in the success of the Young Turks' 1908 revolution, which was followed by the restoration of the 1876 constitution and, in 1909, the suppression of a reactionary counter-coup and deposition of Sultan Abdul Hamid II in favour of a more pliant member of the ruling family.

GenoV84 (talk) 00:53, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

• Yeah it definitely does not support the content because in Roshwald's account the despotism is not mentioned as the cause of the emergence of the young turk movement. (t · c) buidhe 00:58, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I disagree. A reactionary counter-coup attempted by the Ottoman sultan against the Turkish reformers' government is definitely a good case for despotism, considering that he was dethroned by the Young Turks after that. GenoV84 (talk) 01:40, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Please stop doubling down on your attempt to pass off bad citations into this article. There's no way any FAC source reviewer would accept the argument that this supports the content. (t · c) buidhe 04:06, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

An academic, reliable source that meets all the requirements to be added to Wikipedia is not a bad argument. You asked for evidence because you didn't even bother to check the reference, and I provided the evidence that you wanted. You still haven't read the book, didn't you? Stop with your blatant WP:OWNERSHIP of the article, it looks bad. GenoV84 (talk) 04:17, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

How about we ping the editors from the earlier discussion to see if they think if the content fails verification—keeping in mind that the sentence in the article is "Abdul Hamid's despotism prompted the formation of an opposition movement, the Young Turks" [prior to 1908]. Aza24, Binksternet, what is your opinion? (t · c) buidhe 04:23, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

They are free to participate and state their opinion if they want, but don't deny that I didn't provide the evidence directly quoted from the cited source that you desperately asked for, twice, while you just discarded the reference immediately and refused to check it by yourself because you didn't even bother to click on the URL address. Not to mention that you accused me of conflict of interest just because I added a source that you don't like or want in the article, for weird reasons which are still unknown to us. GenoV84 (talk) 04:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

GenoV84, the quote you provided doesn't come anywhere near verifying the article text in question. I'm reading through starting on 221 to see if there's something else that does, but you should stop pointing to that quote. It doesn't mention Abdul Hamid's despotism at all. Your point about the "reactionary counter-coup" is just OR. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:41, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

That's what the author wrote, I quoted the reference. Are there WP policies which forbid users from adding reliable references to Wikipedia? Because that's what this discussion is all about. GenoV84 (talk) 04:48, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I understand that it's a quote. I'm saying that the quote doesn't explicitly verify "Abdul Hamid's despotism prompted the formation of an opposition movement, the Young Turks". Of the content on pages 221–224 (which I just finished reading), that quote is the most on-topic. I don't see how including anything besides 222 is helpful to the reader, should we decide to keep the citation.

Honestly, it's a great read so far. I can send a PDF copy to anyone who needs one. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:56, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

To add a source that doesn't even mention the Assyrians or the reasons for the creation of Turkey for the phrase:

The ethnic cleansing of Anatolia—the Armenian genocide, Assyrian genocide, and expulsion of Greeks after World War I—paved the way for the formation of an ethno-national Turkish state

is just not reliable. The source mentions the Treaty of Lausanne of July 1923, but not that this meant a Turkey was to be established. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 05:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I concur with Buidhe. The Young Turks emerged well before the Revolution took place, much more before the counter coup in 1909. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 04:31, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Another one who didn't even bother to check the reference.... Who would have thought? The last quote that I provided from the source states that too, just read it. GenoV84 (talk) 04:40, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I read all the 4 pages. And as to my judgement the source is good for the 1908 coup and for this we do not need an extra ref. The other phrases are:

During World War I, the CUP—whose central goal was to preserve the Ottoman Empire—came to identify Armenian civilians as an existential threat.

There is no mention of civilians in the source.

The deportation of Armenians and resettlement of Muslims in their lands was part of a broader project intended to permanently restructure the demographics of Anatolia

And that Muslims were to take the land of the deported Armenians is also not mentioned. Sure, it seems logic, but it is not mentioned. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 05:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Are you sure about this? Read again the first quote that I borrowed directly from the cited reference (page 224) and tell me that it has nothing to do with the Armenian genocide organized by the CUP and the deportation of Armenian civilians from Anatolia to the Syrian desert. Go on. GenoV84 (talk) 06:26, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, there is no mention of civilians much less of their identification as an existential threat. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 07:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Which would be easy to find as there exist numerous sources for it. Who knows, maybe the deportees were seen as members of the military a militia, armed forces? Child soldiers... so much can be interpreted there as long it doesn't mention civilians and that it were the civilians that were targeted and

this is easy to find.

And maybe Turkey wanted to create a Natural Park for Turkish Trees, and therefore depopulated the lands of Christian Armenians, who knows? It doesn't mention Muslims were settled into the lands Armenians left,

which is also easy to find. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 07:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

This source and the other references cited throughout the article state otherwise. Did you read the source and the article?

In November 1914, as the CUP triumvirate brought the Ottoman Empire into the war against the Allies, the gloves came off on the domestic front as well. Within a year, the Young Turk regime had launched a carefully planned anti-Armenian ethnic-cleansing campaign that rapidly assumed genocidal qualities and proportions. Somewhere in the range of 600,000 to over a million Armenian men, women, and children were murdered or allowed to die amidst their forced transportation from eastern Anatolia to the Syrian desert. The Armenian genocide was the most extreme manifestation of an overarching effort by the CUP leadership to re-engineer the ethno-demographic structure of Anatolia along cohesive Turkish-nationalist lines.

GenoV84 (talk) 09:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Either it mentions what is to be sourced or not. Yours does not, at least not at the section you use. But the book is good. You can use it in other articles. Just I suggest you use the page numbers one by one. You know, Turks can also claim they were deporting terrorists flashing the terrorist sign of the christian cross. This he also does not mention, but its a possibility. Similar it is with the civilians.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 15:06, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

@Paradise Chronicle: Read the cited quote above; this source meets the WP requirements for reliability and verifiability, which means that there's no reason to remove it. There are no WP policies against the addition of reliable references on Wikipedia, quite the opposite. (Personal attack removed) GenoV84 (talk) 15:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I concur with GenoV84. This has gone beyond assuming good faith. This is an overt attempt at gatekeeping. There is literally no cogent reason to spend this much time and effort attempting to prevent a legitimate reference from being added just because it doesn't meet your personal feelings on length, etc. There's no issue with it, consensus is for keeping it. End of story. Move on with your lives. 12.11.127.253 (talk) 19:54, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

References

A more nuanced view of the events of 1915

Block evasion by User:Ungitow through the IP range Special:Contributions/176.219.128.0/17 which has been blocked four times.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
While it is entrenched in the Western mythology that Turks killed Armenians, there were at least equal amount of or more Turks who were killed during this period in Anatolia. In fact between 1914 and 1922 515,000 Turks were killed by Armenian armed bands. Another misconception is that the events started to unfold in April 24, when the ringleaders of the Armenian militants were arrested due to their rebellious activities; however, archival evidence proved this wrong; The tehcir law took place on May 27, and Armenians were given money and supplies during their journey so that they could safely reach their destination Northern Syria. They were accompanied by the gendarmerie, which protected Armenians against bandit attacks. What we are reading in this article is a reflection of the forgeries such as the Blue Book and the Andonian Documents, which were propaganda masqueraded by the Allies of WW1 as 'truth'. Those facts were uncovered thanks to rigorous research by internationally acclaimed scholars such as Yusuf Halaçoğlu, who authored the book Facts on the Relocation of Armenians (1914-1918). 176.219.154.205 (talk) 07:10, 28 December 2022 (UTC) LOL (t · c) buidhe 07:26, 28 December 2022 (UTC) Totes. 176.219.154.205 (talk) 07:41, 28 December 2022 (UTC) Complete nonsense. Binksternet (talk) 04:59, 30 December 2022 (UTC) The information is correct. It is shown in consular reports. I am amused by how historical revisionists and ex-Soviet Armenia SDHP/ARF members try to cover up and apologize for their crime of cold-blooded genocide in which they murdered 515,000 Turks. During the WWI, the most significant revolt in the Ottoman territory took place in the Van province by the Armenians militants. Armenian terrorist organizations such as Hunchak and Tashnak armed the local Armenian population against the Ottoman government. Their acts were in coordination with the Russian government who had their own designs for Eastern Anatolia—that is to annex it and make it a part of the Russian Empire. Despite all this, Russian ambassador Zinovyev describes the attitude of the Muslims against Armenians as such, "In van, two Muslims and one Armenian were elected as MPs. Muslims harbored no hatred against Armenians. Turks, especially their officers, work to establish friendly relations with the Armenians. However, Armenian revolutionaries agitate the Armenian folk and prevent them to have close relations with the Turks." The consul of the Austrian Hungarian Empire Moricz describes Russian support for the Armenian militants as such, "Russians will mobilize the Armenians. For this cause, they spend a tremendous amount of money and secretly deliver arms to the rebels. They are facilitating the outbreak of an Armenian rebellion." In turn, Ottoman government attempted to mediate and find a peaceful resolution under the guidance of Cevdet Bey, the deputy governor of Van. But Armenian militants answered by increasing the intensity of the atrocities they were committing. They mass murdered Muslims and turned prayer houses into stables. German Ambassador Wangenheim describes the invasion of Van by Russo-Armenian forces as such, "Armenians in the Van province rebelled and assaulted the Muslim villages and fortress. Turkish garrison at the fortress had 300 causalities, and after the street fighting, which lasted for days, city was overtaken by rebel forces. In May 17, 1915 Russians occupied Van, and Armenians changed sides by joining the Russians; They started massacring the Muslims. 80,000 Muslims began to escape towards Bitlis province." [1] Halaçoğlu, Yusuf. (2004). "Armenian Relocation". 176.219.152.115 (talk) 12:53, 30 December 2022 (UTC) Halaçoğlu is a racist crank. You're having laff if you think we're going to use his writings for anything. 72.213.11.193 (talk) 18:01, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Death marches to the Syrian Desert

The Syrian Desert was not the only place where masses of Armenians were forcibly deported, murdered or starved to death during the Armenian Genocide. The Mesopotamian Desert, near Mosul, in present-day Iraq, was another gravesite of the Armenians. See, for example, Kévorkian, Complete History, passim (pp. 244, 632, 650, 672, 674, 684, 758, 808). The clause must therefore be changed to “during death marches to Syrian and Mesopotamian Deserts”.68.83.217.103 (talk) 01:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Davidian

Also to be remembered is the reality of in situ massacres, such as the destruction of the entire Armenian population of Chunkoush (Çüngüş, Diarbekir province, 10,000 souls) by being thrown into the nearby bottomless chasm of death known as the Dudan. None of them had the chance of surviving for a few more days on one of the deportation routes. Diranakir (talk) 01:30, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Sad to say this article today is in worse condition now than in 2022, and in 2022 it was in worse condition than in 2021, and in 2021 it was in worse condition than in 2020. Not sure how far back we need to go to get to some sort of decent state. You get what you deserve (articles should not be written to argue against people who claim the subject does not exist). 92.4.23.2 (talk) 14:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

You can suggest RS-based edits till you are blue in the face. This User:Buidhe editor, who’s done most of the writing here, she just doesn’t care. And when you repeat your edit for the second time, another editor, such as User:Firefangledfeathers, will pop up and accuse you of "bad faith and obscenity" (?!). This is how these folks operate. But I bet if you ask them, they’ll sure say that they consider themselves “professionals”…37.252.90.66 (talk) 18:44, 12 February 2023 (UTC)Davidian

Ongoing Risk

@Buidhe Can you help me understand why this is undue? I suppose it could be relevated to a subsection of Legacy.

Four separate institutions which specialize in genocide studies have all said Armenians are at risk Humanatbest (talk) 23:32, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

What's the connection to the 1915-1917 genocide of Armenians that is the article's topic? (t · c) buidhe 01:10, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

@Buidhe The crime is identical (genocide). The victim is the same (the Armenian people). The perpetrators are very similar (partisans of the Ottoman empire: i.e. Turkey and its ally Azerbaijan). Humanatbest (talk) 15:11, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

I still don't see where reliable sources about the 1915-1917 genocide are covering these hypothetical events as closely enough related to the article's topic that a mention would be WP:DUE in this article. (t · c) buidhe 17:44, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

@Buidhe The genocide scholars specifically mention the ongoing risk in the context of the 1915 genocide. Humanatbest (talk) 11:48, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

In order to be due weight in this article it would have to be mentioned in sources that are about the article topic (the genocide between 1915 and 1917). The high quality secondary sources cited in this article do not really cover any such thing. There's a brief mention in Armenian genocide denial#Consequences, but that's all due IMO. (t · c) buidhe 18:23, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Another sad chapter in the history of mankind

We never seem to learn. Weaky3 (talk) 21:58, 21 February 2023 (UTC)