Talk:Shays's Rebellion

Conspiracy Section Needed?

I came across a letter from Elbridge Gerry to Rufus King that suspected Shay was backed by a group "for the purpose of reuniting the American States to the Government of Great Britain."

https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5QaeAr7h3W7girJz5Y8RWm1L2nsbFJNPA-ZlKHUofjxzQAH0AxfxxWQqftxplk-ekHINP6mACKaJFqFDnNP1ffAZu7OXjhnxrLCUYS2lVtK_qqXpeJx-ZxDVcOPqih2PE79GB2TABSAQhaLzm5RJBaw3X2Uqb7_hlfltfkYi9xQdH5xAh57Np5bCQRDdgeKZX2_lIx6y5mv4QjZJt5jfjl-PIHdev6hJurAefKudeD-I0uUvMixuJB4_Y7lQ3XpYM6k6cgNQKXBP7v2XAN_W44o5M_9TrVQ

I think a new section should be explored, and included. Philfromwaterbury (talk) 12:33, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Your URL doesn't work. How about providing the title, author, publisher, page number? Shearonink (talk) 14:44, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If you are referring to the letter on page 197 of The Life and Correspondence of Rufus King: Comprising His Letters, Private and Official, His Public Documents, and His Speeches, Volume 1 by Rufus King (with the editor being his grandson Dr. Charles R. King) I don't see where the letter specifically states that it was Shay who was perhaps backed by incipient Tories. Per WP:PRIMARY it's also a primary source and that is problematic.

If reliable sources - respected/published historians writing in books and articles with editorial oversight etc. - have commented that it was Shay who was possibly/probably backed by reunification groups and those statements are backed up by good sources then I probably wouldn't have a problem with it. But I just don't see it in this case. This appears to be an off-hand remark written in passing by a prominent supporter of the Revolution within a private letter. I'm sure there were many people suffering in the aftermath of the Revolution who were not pleased with their resultant lot in life but that doesn't mean that funded/organized conspiracies actually existed in this case. For all we know, Gerry could have been led on by the informer in an attempt to grift/extort more money or to get favors from Congress/the national government. But it is an interesting...perhaps a section about how some prominent Revolution supporters believed anti-US conspiracies were happening in the aftermath of the Revolution might work, I just don't see the specific applicability to Shays' Rebellion. Shearonink (talk) 15:31, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Forrest McDonald suggests that a belief in a British-led conspiracy was widespread (specifically that it was being orchestrated by Lord Dorchester, governor of Canada). Novus Ordo Seclorum: The Intellectual Origins of the Constitution, U Kansas Press 1985, page 79. (This book was a finalist for the 1986 Pulitzer Prize for History.) Magic♪piano 15:12, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

But does McDonald state that it was believed specifically about Shays' Rebellion? Or is it more that some in power within Congress and within the national government believed that these various events of the disaffected were fomented by British interests? Unless a historian and/or a Founding Father writes specifically about Shays' Rebellion being guided by anti-US interests (and real proof would be nice...) I don't think this theory belongs in this particular article. Shearonink (talk) 15:23, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

McDonald specifically claims this about Shays' Rebellion, citing (and implying there are more examples) letters from Henry Lee to Washington, and from Edward Carrington to Edmund Randolph. The letters, dated to the fall of 1786, are published in Edmund Burnett's multivolume set of Continental Congressmen's correspondence. Some more of the Founding Fathers' thinking on the subject could be added to the "Impact on the Constitution" section. McDonald also points out that much thinking about the rebellion outside Massachusetts was colored by a somewhat overwrought account [my opinion] of the threat it posed which was written by Henry Knox and widely circulated. Magic♪piano 16:45, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Oooooo, this *is* getting interesting. Text along with cites with page numbers & specifics would be awesome then. And makes sense Knox would flog the perceived threat...I suppose it would play to increasing his power and prestige. Shearonink (talk) 20:09, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Some more interesting tidbits: Daniel Shays and other leaders supposedly went to Canada to meet with Dorchester, presumably in search of military support (Alan Taylor, The Civil War of 1812, p. 33). Taylor also writes that part of Dorchester's brief was to promote reunion of the states into the British empire. This was apparently not secret, and was a cause for alarm in more strongly republican American circles. He openly sent George Beckwith, who had worked as a spy during the Revolution, to New York. Presumably his movements would have stimulated thoughts of conspiracy. There probably was not an *actual* conspiracy, though, because Dorchester's activities were limited by colonial authorities in London, and he seems to have done little more than cultivate parties disaffected by the failing confederation government. Magic♪piano 15:02, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, just because some people run around saying "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" doesn't mean it actually is... Shearonink (talk) 18:15, 5 July 2022 (UTC)