Talk:Predatory lending

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Whoever did the massive, and at first glance good, edit of this article needs to identify his/her self. Ain't no reason, with the amount of work you're doing, you can't login.

LegCircus 22:43, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

I believe logins defeat the purpose of wikipedia

Does AARP stand for Animal Accident Recovery Patrol?? Jaberwocky6669 07:07, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

Definition of Predatory Lending

"In the strictest and legal sense, predatory lending refers to secured loans such as home or car loans which are made by the lender with the intention that the borrower will not repay the loan, allowing the lender to seize the car or home and sell it for a profit." I'm not sure what the authority is for this, but I'm quite sure that there is no precise definition of "predatory lending." In particular, there is no precise "legal" definition of predatory lending.

Additionally, it is misleading to say that consumer groups consider refund-anticipation loans (RALs), payday loans, and credit card loans to be inherently predatory. Consumer groups argue that such loans are often offered by lenders on predatory terms--but I know of no group which has suggested that any are per se predatory.

To which someone responds: I diasgree, the http://www.ots.treas.gov/docs/7/77335.html office of thrift supervision and office of comptroller of the currency use the term to mean forclosing for profit.

And I say: Exactly my point. The joint advisory ruling identifies making a loan that the lender does not expect the borrower to repay to be, generally, an example of a "predatory" lending practice. However, it does not suggest that this is the "definition" of predatory lending--only a specific example of it. I don't think the article should suggest that an example of a practice considered predatory is equivalent of the "legal" definition of the term.

So I think that you're probably right that predatory lending as it is typically used is not a legal term. ACORN and other groups have passed laws in CA, MD, IL, and NC, but I don't think there is any real federal legislation (Republicans keep trying to pass token laws, Democrats keep trying to pass punitive one, and in the end they do nothing).

I would be hard pressed however, to find a community or consumer group that did not consider RALs to be a good example of predatory lending. If you're arguing that RALs are not predatory lending, you're probably arguing that predatory lending does not exist.

LegCircus 02:28, 9 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, given that lenders throughout the United States can be and often are prosecuted by the feds for predatory lending practices there certainly is a "legal" definition for predatory lending. This is not to say that the "legal" definition coincides with the common use.

Noff72 06:57, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are a variety of practices which are considered "predatory lending" which are specifically illegal, generally various sorts of frauds, like mis-stating interest rates, or charging the customer fees which aren't in the contract; and those are what the federal prosecutors are charging. AFAIK, there is no federal "predatory lending" law. If you can provide a citation otherwise, however, we should include it in the article. Argyriou (talk) 18:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge in some pages?

Hello. I've run across a couple of pages: BlueHippo Funding, Upfront Rewards. I'll probably find some more if I go looking for them. I'm dubious about them as articles in themselves (although the BlueHippo one is decently written and has some good information) but instead of proposing them for deletion I went looking for someplace to merge them into. My first thought was Easy credit ripoff (from the old Good Times TV show) but that page doesn't exist (though I'll probably create it, and some others e.g. Easy credit, as redirects here). This page might be the best place for the material, but I also don't want to invite every aggrieved consumer to add their stories here. Any suggestions? Ewlyahoocom 18:04, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Semiprotect?

Why/how was this semiprotected? There was not a lot of vandalism. An obvious POV website was added to "External Links" by user "Danny" who then semiprotected this?

Actually Danny removed the website, then semiprotected, probably to prevent it from being added again. · Katefan0^(scribble)/poll 23:07, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah, I saw that wrong. Still, does a single spam justify a semi? Mateo LeFou 20:48, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lead Paragraph

The lead paragraph needs a lot of work, preferably from someone without an agenda. We seem to have some activists and predatory lending apologists making lots of edits to suit their POV. And the first paragraph is just poorly written. I'll do what I can to clean it up. Dubc0724 15:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the above poster. Ridiculous how this article is so obviously slanted in favor of the "victims" of predatory lending. I personally believe that the only "victims" of lending are those who are too ignorant and lazy to find out what they are agreeing to, and there is no reason to coddle them by implying that it's the fault of the CREDITOR if they can't pay off all the loans they've taken out and wasted on luxury items and non-necessities. Smith Jones 02:25, 16 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As far as the POV is concerned, I think it is just fine the way it is. The term "predatory lending" is used quite often in governmental language and it is derogatory in nature, which when used to describe a practice or business enterprise, it would appear to have a slant or angle. Most recently, politicians have taken notice to a plague that most military members have known about for quite some time. Our service chiefs have testified on Capitol Hill about the location and tactics used by companies that describe themselves as "payday loans" but in truth are quite predatory. The items of their argument that caught my attention were the physical locations of the payday loan vendors. In military towns, sometimes up to 60% of the vendors are located within 5 miles of the military base, a tactic that the vendors hope to take advantage of a combination of A) low income families of military personnel, B) relative youth and inexperience of the military member or his/her dependents and C) the fact that military members will/can have their wages garnished without a court order in order to make up for missed payments, without regard to their financial status. In my POV, the article itself isn't slanted, its descriptive. You can't describe anything with a negative connotation without the appearance of a negative slant.

I have tried to improve on this opening to shift the focus from unfavorable lending terms to practices that can be more clearly seen as abusive or fraudulent, including violations of terms by lenders in ways that make it difficult for borrowers to defend against. I have also introduced a category of cases that make the term more meaningful. Such practices have become sufficiently common to identify them as a problem requiring legal reforms. Obviously, on such a topic there is going to be a POV, but does neutrality require us to be balanced between the honest and the fraudulent? --Jon Roland 15:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality

Does anyone currently believe that this article fails to conform to a neutral point of view? Jerimee 23:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"America's Growing Fringe Economy" reference

The "America's Growing Fringe Economy" article in Dollars & Sense magazine is not a very good reference, because the article is only partially about predatory lending, however defined. Quite a lot of the article is about the expenses of moving money when one does not have a bank account, which is a social problem, but is not the same as predatory lending. Argyriou (talk) 20:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. I just replaced it with an older, but more appropriate article (called "Predatory Lending"!).Notmyrealname 21:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

REALLY HIGH INTREST

I am very new to this whole lending thing and just wonder about the legality of the nearly extortion like intrest rates that these pay day loan places are charging. I know of a person who recently took out a small loan $500. the intrest is 549.66% WHAT THE HECK IS THAT????? If a person is in a fix and needs to borrow a small amount of cash and they are expected to pay that kind of intrest dont they think it is a bit ridiculous ot be paying for something they didnt have to start with. How can they expect a person to get any where. Things happen to everyone at some time or other and need a bit of help but this is worse than selling your soul to the devil. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rnchome (talk • contribs) 04:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]