Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 May 25
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May 25
Category:Antonio Nóbrega albums
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 00:46, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Single redirect for a non-notable album where target offers no additional info about the album itself. Categorization here offers no navigational benefit. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 23:30, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:04, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete this does not aid navigation. It's barely even WP:SMALLCAT. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:30, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Television stations in the Lincoln–Hastings–Kearney market
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: merge. (non-admin closure) CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 00:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Doesn't make sense to group in a hyphenated market. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 21:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:07, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:31, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Social commentators
- Propose deleting Category:Social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Swiss social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Spanish social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Serbian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Russian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Palestinian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Maltese social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Japanese social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Italian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Irish social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Indian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Hungarian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Greek social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:German social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:French social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Chinese social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Canadian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Scottish social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:English social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:British social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Brazilian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Austrian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Australian social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:American social commentators (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Nominator's rationale: Not a WP:DEFINING characteristic, broadly defined this could describe almost anyone. All of the subcategories by nationality will need to be deleted too. - car chasm (talk) 17:18, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Carchasm: procedural comment, the subcategories should be tagged and listed too. Just deletion of the top category does not make sense, it would merely orphan the subcategories. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:06, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Sure thing! Updated the nom, they should all be tagged and added now - car chasm (talk) 16:05, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment There is a main article called Social commentary, and it has a sort of list of allegedly Social commentary#Famous social commentators, but the entire section is unsourced. For this to be a comprehensible and verifiable concept, the main article needs more WP:RS for better verification. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:10, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Listify Nom has a point that which people to include/exclude may not be obvious,or arbitrary. But because it is a legitimate concept, listifying and demanding that every single item on the list is verifiably a "social commentator" seems to be the best solution. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:17, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- What would the WP:LSC be? I'm skeptical it's a legitimate concept, in my experience it's used inconsistently whenever a source doesn't have a more specific job title to give someone, so the fact that it's used by a WP:RS to describe someone wouldn't make it verifiable. The list on Social commentary is... dubious to say the least, it's just a bunch of names thrown together. That article should probably be AfD'd also. - car chasm (talk) 16:19, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. No objection to lists but I'm not making it a requirement of my iVote. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:32, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per above and WP:NONDEF. Even if there's a main article, this is too broad and trivial to be defining. Brandmeistertalk 17:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
Category:Public high schools in suburbs of Chicago
- Nominator's rationale: Category of dubious utility, grouping schools across several different towns and/or counties. We can categorize schools by the places that they're in, but we do not categorize schools by the places that the places they're in happen to be near. Bearcat (talk) 17:02, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:54, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. –Aidan721 (talk) 21:51, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete We do have Category:Chicago metropolitan area (which includes Chicago proper) but I'm doubtful this would be meaningful for high schools in separate districts. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:33, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Category:4th-century BC Seleucid monarchs
- Propose merging Category:4th-century BC Seleucid monarchs to Category:4th-century BC monarchs
- Nominator's rationale: merge per WP:SMALLCAT, only one article in the category. The article is already in Category:3rd-century BC Seleucid monarchs so a second merge target is not needed Marcocapelle (talk) 16:43, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose The Seleucid Empire was established in 312 BCE, and the 3rd century BCE category does not accurately reflect its lifespan. Dimadick (talk) 08:37, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. We don't use categories to reflect empire lifespans; they are used for navigation and this category slows down navigation as an unnecessary layer of Category:4th-century BC monarchs. Deleting Category:4th-century BC Seleucid monarchs in no way inhibits navigation of Category:Seleucid monarchs tree since the lone article is already present in Category:3rd-century BC Seleucid monarchs. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:48, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: but this is also part of 4th-century BC monarchs, and merging it as proposed would prevent users searching under that category from finding the sole 4th-century BC Seleucid king alongside his contemporaries. The only way to avoid that result would be to rename the category something like "3rd- and 4th-century Seleucid monarchs", which looks clunky, although it might be acceptable. P Aculeius (talk) 14:21, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Merge per nom. Century-based and state-based crosscats are often impractical and lead to many SMALLCATs. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 21:22, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Dual Upmerge to Category:4th-century BC monarchs to address P Aculeius' concerns while still addressing WP:SMALLCAT. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:35, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Category:YouTube controversies
- Nominator's rationale: This category mostly contains individual YouTube personalities who are deemed controversial for one reason or another. Their categorisation here violates WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. I have two suggestions:
- Remove the articles about people, channels or videos, leaving behind only the articles about controversial incidents or aspects of YouTube (e.g., YouTube and privacy, Blocking of YouTube videos in Germany, 2011 Slovenian YouTube incident).
- If the resulting category is too small, upmerge everything remaining to the parent categories and delete. gnu57 15:39, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Purge per nom (and possibly upmerge - rather than delete). Marcocapelle (talk) 16:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Purge Looks like there will still enough here for a category. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:36, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Category:Campeonato Nacional de Futebol Feminino (women) seasons
- Nominator's rationale: "(women)" is redundant with "Feminino", and other subcategories of Category:Campeonato Nacional de Futebol Feminino don't use it. Socccc (talk) 15:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: main article is at Campeonato Nacional Feminino since 2019 so a better category name would be Category:Campeonato Nacional Feminino seasons. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 17:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- In which case, expand the nomination to include Category:Campeonato Nacional de Futebol Feminino, Category:Campeonato Nacional de Futebol Feminino players, and Category:Campeonato Nacional de Futebol Feminino teams. -Socccc (talk) 07:42, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: main article is at Campeonato Nacional Feminino since 2019 so a better category name would be Category:Campeonato Nacional Feminino seasons. Kaffet i halsen (talk) 17:25, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. GiantSnowman 20:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Move to Category:Campeonato Nacional Feminino seasons to match parent article. WP:CFDS can be used. GiantSnowman 20:45, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Alt Rename Category:Campeonato Nacional Feminino seasons per WP:C2D. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:37, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Category:Battlestar Galactica (1978) episodes
- Nominator's rationale: As per the other category, Category:Battlestar Galactica (2004 TV series) episodes. Spinixster (chat!) 03:33, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support per nom: I was just about to make this change when I noticed this CfD.— TAnthonyTalk 00:05, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Category:Railway stations served by TransPennine Express
- Nominator's rationale: TransPennine Express will be superseded by TransPennine Trains on 28 May. Convention is for similar categories at Category:Railway stations in Great Britain by train operating company to be renamed when a franchise changes hands, e.g when Virgins Trains was replaced by Avanti West Coast [1]. Airpopg (talk) 03:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- KEEP FOR NOW as it is not clear what name the new government-owned operator will be using. Based on past franchise take overs, it is feasible that TransPennine Trains Ltd will operate under the brand TransPennine Express. So this nomination is too early. 10mmsocket (talk) 06:56, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Support after changeover. As per nom, but should only be renamed after the new franchise takes over. Agree with 10mmsocket that we should wait until we know what trading name (I think that's the right term) that the new operator will use. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 07:03, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Per 10mmsocket, the convention is to use the trading name and we don't know yet what that will be. In the two most recent cases where the operator of last resort as taken over the "Southeastern" and "Northern" brands were retained, so in the absence of an official announcement to the contrary we should expect the same to happen here (see also WP:CRYSTAL). If it does change, then we should change our categories only after it takes effect. Thryduulf (talk) 11:26, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Oppose, TransPennine Express brand is transferring to the new operator, so a rename of the category won't be required. Blamelstone (talk) 14:08, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- NOTE: It has been confirmed by TransPennine Trains that they will operate as TransPennine Express, so this proposal can be closed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 10mmsocket (talk • contribs) 07:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
Category:Novels set in fictional villages
- Nominator's rationale: So many novels are set in fictional villages that this doesn't really seem to be a defining category. DonIago (talk) 02:58, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:10, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. There are many comparable categories with huge numbers of entries (for example, Category:Films set in country houses has 546 articles, and Category:Novels set in New York City has 613 articles, and Category:Novels set in London has 1,035 articles); but being set in a village is a distinctive features of novels so set, and is in keeping with novel categorization on Wikipedia. It is also consistent with similar categories, like Category:Novels set in fictional countries, Category:Novels set on fictional islands, Category:Novels set in fictional cities, and Category:Novels set in fictional towns. — the Man in Question (in question) 21:37, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Considering you created Category:Novels set in fictional towns and "Novels set in fictional cities" less than a week ago, I feel you're arguing a bit disingenuously here. DonIago (talk) 13:16, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Such was not my intention! I brought them up because they had not been nominated. But more importantly, all the other categories I listed (and I could list many more) were not created by me. I have been creating a few more categories, such as the one under discussion here, to better round out the novel topic categories, since there were many of them already in use but they have inconsistent coverage. Since categories exist for nonfictional cities, towns, and villages, it seemed obvious we also needed to cover fictional ones. — the Man in Question (in question) 20:01, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- If I'd been aware of them at the time I created this CfD I might have added them to it. As it is, I hope that the outcome of this CfD might be used to set precedent as to whether those categories are appropriate.
- I find the larger-scope categories less problematic because I suspect they're less common and consequently more defining. Per my example below, The Stand is set in fictional villages but not in fictional countries (per se). DonIago (talk) 23:38, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- I understand your thinking, but I really do think these settings are defining for most works so set—certainly as defining as London (for example) is as a setting for the vast number of works so categorized. And I created the category not just for kicks, but to fill a serious gap I felt in the categorization. — the Man in Question (in question) 02:02, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Such was not my intention! I brought them up because they had not been nominated. But more importantly, all the other categories I listed (and I could list many more) were not created by me. I have been creating a few more categories, such as the one under discussion here, to better round out the novel topic categories, since there were many of them already in use but they have inconsistent coverage. Since categories exist for nonfictional cities, towns, and villages, it seemed obvious we also needed to cover fictional ones. — the Man in Question (in question) 20:01, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Considering you created Category:Novels set in fictional towns and "Novels set in fictional cities" less than a week ago, I feel you're arguing a bit disingenuously here. DonIago (talk) 13:16, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Nonsensical rationale. So there are enough novels to make this a viable category, and this makes you suggest its deletion? Have you been drinking while editing? Dimadick (talk) 08:40, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- As I said in my nomination, I don't believe that being set in a fictional village is really a defining category, and as at least one other editor agrees with me, perhaps you could cut back on the snark? We could have Category:Novels that contain words, but we don't. Should we put The Stand in this category because it includes fictional villages? DonIago (talk) 13:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. The word used to describe the setting of a place (i.e. city, town, village) is not defining of a novel. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:51, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- I considered instead making Category:Novels set in fictional populated places (on the basis of Category:Fictional populated places), but that I thought would be too expansive of a category. So I broke it down to the most common descriptions used in novels—cities, towns, and villages. I think the village setting of a novel is, in fact, a defining characteristic for many (most) novels so set, as are city and town. It is also in keeping with similar categories, like Category:Novels set on farms, Category:Novels set in swamps, Category:Novels set in deserts, Category:Novels set on fictional islands, etc. — the Man in Question (in question) 22:26, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Set in a swamp is very specific, set in a village not at all. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:38, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- "Novels set in fictional populated places" might work as a parent category, but I'm not advocating for it at this time, and I'm not sure whether something like it may not already exist. DonIago (talk) 14:30, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
- I appreciate your perspective, but respectfully I disagree. — the Man in Question (in question) 02:04, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- I considered instead making Category:Novels set in fictional populated places (on the basis of Category:Fictional populated places), but that I thought would be too expansive of a category. So I broke it down to the most common descriptions used in novels—cities, towns, and villages. I think the village setting of a novel is, in fact, a defining characteristic for many (most) novels so set, as are city and town. It is also in keeping with similar categories, like Category:Novels set on farms, Category:Novels set in swamps, Category:Novels set in deserts, Category:Novels set on fictional islands, etc. — the Man in Question (in question) 22:26, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete all 3 Set in an unspecified place where there are other characters nearby? I appreciate there is sincere disagreement here but this one seems too generic to be defining to me. - RevelationDirect (talk) 19:39, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Keep or Merge to Category:Novels set in fictional towns. I am not sure we really need to differentiate between a village and a town. To my mind they are pretty much the same thing. That said. We have a large category tree for Category:Fiction by setting. The fact that a large number of works use this particular setting device does not make it useless. I’d further note that many of these could get more specific such as “Novels set in fictional villages in Canada” for Anne of Green Gables. Many times we know what real country or geographic region the fictional town/village exists in. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:59, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- I like this idea of more specific categories. — the Man in Question (in question) 23:35, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete per nom, too generic Kaffet i halsen (talk) 22:34, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete all three for the same reason Kaffet i halsen (talk) 14:22, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. I am concerned that this discussion is being had about Category:Novels set in fictional villages but not also about Category:Novels set in fictional cities or Category:Novels set in fictional towns. Are we going to have this discussion all over again for those? It seems like this should all be dealt with together. — the Man in Question (in question) 23:49, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Doniago, The Man in Question, Dimadick, Aidan721, RevelationDirect, 4meter4, and Kaffet i halsen: I have added the siblings to the nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete additional nominations by Marcocapelle as well. –Aidan721 (talk) 12:32, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Note to Closer This is obviously meant as an expansion of the earlier iVote by @Aidan721:, not an additional iVote. - RevelationDirect (talk) 14:29, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- @Marcocapelle: Took the liberty of adding these to the header of your nomination to make the change clearer without digging through the comments. - RevelationDirect (talk) 14:18, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Delete additional cats per nom. The only reason I didn't include them in my original nomination was because I was unaware of them. DonIago (talk) 02:38, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- Note to Closer. This is to be understood as an expansion of the original deletion nomination by @Doniago: and not counted as an additional vote. — the Man in Question (in question) 18:09, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- Further note: I would have no objection to a category Novels set in a particular fictional place, but Novels set in any fictional place is just meaningless. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Could you give an example or examples? — the Man in Question (in question) 18:34, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, e.g. I would not have an issue with Category:Novels set in Castle Rock. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:37, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Ah, I see. I thought you meant something more like @4meter4:'s suggestion of "Novels set in fictional villages in Canada". I think what you're saying would be hyper-specific, as with few exceptions the same fictional places would not recur in the works of different authors, and thus it would be more a 'category of curiosities' or serve the same purpose as franchise categories. — the Man in Question (in question) 06:56, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, e.g. I would not have an issue with Category:Novels set in Castle Rock. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:37, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
- Could you give an example or examples? — the Man in Question (in question) 18:34, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. I think the rush to delete all of these categories is a mistake and is ill conceived. There is scholarly writing on the choice to use fictional towns as a setting, and as it is an academic area of interest in literature/writing studies I think a category is both useful and appropriate.4meter4 (talk) 13:01, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
- Note to Closer The 2 additional cats were formally added to the nomination just before the time stamp of this comment. Please leave at least 7 days from this point before closing. (@4meter4: This addresses your valid procedural concern about leaving enough time to reach consensus.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 14:22, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
Nomination for deletion of Category:Fictional work redirects / Template:R fictional work
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: Delete, per close at TfD; notice no longer needed. (non-admin closure) Skarmory (talk • contribs) 12:58, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
– Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere.
- Nominator's rationale: Nom made to notify CfD users of the deletion discussion going on including this category at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 May 20#R fictional work. You are invited to participate in the discussion. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 02:55, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- Do not !vote here; instead, !vote at the TfD page. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 03:00, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.