Talk:Jon Brower Minnoch/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Vaticidalprophet (talk · contribs) 14:08, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is certainly an interesting premise! Having said that, the article needs a fair amount of work. The first thing that stood out to me was the short length and suspicion of missing elements. To take a rather glaring example: Minnoch has a mugshot pictured, clarifying that he was arrested at 19 for burglary...but no arrests are mentioned in the article! There's evidently quite a bit missing about Minnoch's personal life, with only enough detail to raise further questions (e.g. the lack of clarity around his relationships and children, and complete absence of any mention of his parents/potential siblings/etc). If the sourcing exists for what we have, it should exist for more, even if it may be difficult to find considering it would overwhelmingly be pre-internet and not necessarily digitized. (If there's a mugshot, for instance, there's more about his arrest and why it happened -- some of it might not be usable in a BLP, but this is not a BLP.)

While this is the most significant issue with the article, and some work would need to be done on it before many further comments, there are a few other bullet points I have to note:

His first wife is mentioned as preferring to go by her middle name. Why does her first name necessarily need mentioning, in this case?
'WA' shouldn't be used for 'Washington', as it's ambiguous between many locations.
[S]uggesting a genetic cause for his condition is far too big a claim to be made by that source -- obesity is complex and multifactorial, including obesity onset in childhood, and the sense in which it's 'genetic' is fairly complicated. Probably we shouldn't speculate on why he was fat at all, except to note the very obvious fact he lost substantial amounts of weight when eating less.
80% fat should be clarified as having a body fat percentage of 80%, to avoid ambiguity. (For...juxtaposition purposes, it also might be good to rearrange this such that his claims about water retention immediately follow this sentence.)
The fair use picture is justifiable, but the current justification used on the file page doesn't work, because multiple public domain photos of him exist and are in the article. However, there aren't free images including his body, so the FUR should be amended to clarify that none of the free images actually show him as 'especially fat' rather than 'guy with double chin'.

I'll be able to make more comments as the article is expanded. Vaticidalprophet 14:08, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Fixes

Hi @Vaticidalprophet! Thank you for taking the time to review this article! I am happy to address some of your initial concerns:

For starters, many aspects of Minnoch's personal life are simply unknown. Believe me--I have searched far and wide for sources. Practically all RS about Minnoch is already cited within in the article.
Re: mugshots. As stated above, I have searched diligently for a source about Minnoch's arrest back in 1960. But, alas, there is no information about it (minus the mugshot itself). I have searched all possible archives. If need be, we can cite the mugshot itself (or we can simply remove the mugshot photo--but it's a really good photo).
Re: other personal life stuff. 1) Minnoch had no siblings. 2) I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "the lack of clarity around his relationships". Minnoch was married twice--both marriages are noted in the article. There really isn't any other relevant information to include about his relationships. 3) The article notes Minnoch had 2 children. I might be able to find their names, if you believe that is relevant to include in the article (names added!) 4) I think I am able to include the names of his parents! (names added!)

Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 21:54, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So, what I'm thinking here is: if he was arrested, there are records of the arrest. There are likely news articles, and there are certainly primary sources around his arrest. In a BLP, these wouldn't be usable, but this isn't a BLP. This is something that can be an interesting learning curve for editors going between BLPs and BDPs (in either direction), because the sourcing and due weight requirements can change quite a bit. I definitely respect the issue with finding sources, but I also note everything currently in the article has a link to some kind of free online archive (e.g. Google Books) -- keep in mind a lot of things don't make it there! Similarly, if we know he was an only child, can we source that? I have seen the expansions to add some detail about his parents and children (given the names, it might be worth just saying 'sons'...unless we happen to know he named his daughters John and Jason), and I'm very happy with that. I'm not asking to double the size of the article or anything, I'm just poking a little about some details that are reasonably likely to have some kind of source, even if it's primary or couldn't go in a living person's article with their more specific considerations. Vaticidalprophet 13:11, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum: I've been looking through Newspapers.com, which you'll have access to through The Wikipedia Library, and found his mother's obituary with some details on her (career, that she outlived her son, confirmation of grandsons). This also confirms his middle name as his mother's maiden name, which seemed likely to me. Vaticidalprophet 15:33, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've beefed up the personal life section considerably. But i'm still struggling to find a source for the arrest. I did manage to find this one article published a day after Minnoch's arrest about a series of burglaries in the area committed by seven juveniles, two of whom were over the age of 18. But there is no specific mention of Minnoch :( Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 00:28, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm currently inclined to say we should leave out the mugshot for now, until we can find more sourcing (even primary) about it -- while WP:MUG is BLP, the element of [b]ecause a police booking photograph can imply that the person depicted was charged with or convicted of a specific crime is still relevant, so I'd at least like to see some kind of in-text confirmation. Aside from that, I'm happy with the structural changes and will launch into a prose and sourcing review soon. Vaticidalprophet 14:06, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Fixes

His first wife... --Fixed
'WA' shouldn't be used for 'Washington'... --Fixed
[S]uggesting a genetic cause for his condition --Fixed
80% fat --Fixed
The fair use picture is justifiable... --Fixed Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 22:15, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]