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June 27

Spanish verbs

Does Spanish have any verbs ending in -güer or -güir? --40bus (talk) 13:55, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Creo que no hay ningunos. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Two examples from Google translate:

se quedó sin saber que otra cosa podría argüir

es posible argüir de la verdad de enunciados singulares la falsidad de enunciados universales — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23A8:0:3D01:64FC:8808:BCB4:3993 (talk) 17:29, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. See[1]. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:49, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch vowels

Does Dutch have any verb infinitives or noun plurals with a double vowel? --40bus (talk) 13:55, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

wikt:Category:Dutch noun forms has lots, from a-capellakoortjes to zwerfwoorden. 46.31.102.126 (talk) 15:42, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also many verb infinitives: verwoorden, haasten, naasten. Dutch spelling has a regular system to double vowels (consonants too). PiusImpavidus (talk) 22:19, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And are there any such words with double vowels followed just by single consonant? --40bus (talk) 13:59, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

wikt:aanaardingen from the link just above. Have you even tried clicking it yourself? 185.130.86.86 (talk) 15:28, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That can happen when that consonant is at the end of a word with another word following in a compound (otherwise it cannot happen in plural nouns or infinitives, as they would either get an -en suffix, leading to singling of the vowel, or a consonant suffix, giving two consonants) or at the end of a prefix. e can be doubled at the end of such a segment without a following consonant, so nouns ending in -ee with the plural suffix -s also get this: plees. Dutch spelling is quite regular in this. Such words are common and new ones can be created on the fly: zaaiaardes (i acts as a consonant there), meereizen, aaneten. PiusImpavidus (talk) 16:36, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

June 28

Arabic: a word in the Quran

Quran 5:21:

ادْ ُلُوا

My knowledge in Arabic is quite limited, yet I guess it could also have been spelled ادْؤلُوا, but what does it mean? I couldn't find it on dictionaries. GoogelTranslate gives "make a statement" for ادْ ُلُوا, and also gives "do it" for ادْؤلُوا, but I can't see how any of these translations fits the context in the Quran. Additionally, regarding any of these possible Arabic words, what's its root, and what's its exact meaning?

2A06:C701:7453:7D00:8F6:E1A9:A503:D522 (talk) 22:30, 28 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is it this Āyah? [2] 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:17, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That is from surah Al-Ma'idah. In machine-readable Arabic:

يَا قَوْمِ ٱدۡخُلُواْ ٱلۡأَرۡضَ ٱلۡمُقَدَّسَةَ ٱلَّتِي كَتَبَ ٱللَّهُ لَكُمۡ وَلَا تَرۡتَدُّواْ عَلَىٰٓ أَدۡبَارِكُمۡ فَتَنقَلِبُواْ خَٰسِرِينَ

yā qawmi dḵulū l-ʔarḍa l-muqaddasata llatī kataba l-lahu lakum wa-lā tartaddū ʕalā ʔadbārikum fatanqalibū ḵāsirīna

Disregarding the diacritics, it contains ادْ as the first part of the word أَدۡبَارِكُمۡ (ʔadbārikum), while لُوا is the last part of the word ٱدۡخُلُواْ (dḵulū). These occur very far apart in the verse, as well as in the opposite order. I cannot quite imagine what form of mangling might bring them together. A Burroughs edition of the Qur'an? --Lambiam 12:48, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I was reading it in this website which spells ادْ ُلُوا, but now I realize this website mispells the word, and it should be ٱدۡخُلُواْ. 2A06:C701:7453:7D00:8F6:E1A9:A503:D522 (talk) 13:15, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

June 30

Gairaigo

Are there any gairaigo in Japanese where English postvocalic R has been rendered as ル (ru) rather than chōonpu? For example, number would become ナンバル (nanbaru) rather than ナンバー (nanbā). --40bus (talk) 18:30, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How about ビル？Duomillia (talk) 13:33, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You must have meant ビール? It's borrowed from Dutch, not English. 185.130.86.86 (talk) 15:16, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

40bus, gaiters, leggings, puttees, spats, and probably other English words I can't think of have fluctuating and overlapping meanings, roughly corresponding to those of 脚絆 (kyahan), ゲイター (geitā), ゲートル (gētoru), 巻きゲートル (makigētoru), スパッツ (supattsu) and no doubt other Japanese words I can't think of.

Uh-oh: ja:WP (FWIW) says that gētoru comes from French guêtre. If this is so, then of course it’s not what you want; but I mention it because it’s a salutary reminder of the matter of cognates among languages whose influence on Japanese at times rivaled or exceeded that of English.

Yes, I was certain that ビール (bīru, “beer”) would be an excellent example. This is now the standard term. (ビアー biā is but a minor variant.) I have trouble believing that it came from either French or German – but yes, ja:WP (FWIW) says that bīru comes from Dutch bier.

English "cashmere" started as a spelling of what's now "Kashmir". Now of course they're separated (we don't read of unrest in Cashmere, or of a kashmir sweater). But FWIW the material is either カシミア (kashimia) or カシミヤ (kashimiya), whereas the area is カシミール (Kashimīru). -- Hoary (talk) 22:49, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiktionary also gives Dutch as the donor of ビール, citing five Japanese dictionaries. The Dutch agree their bier is an export product.^[3] A linguistic argument, next to the well-documented historical cultural contact, is that (as in English), the final ⟨r⟩ in the German pronunciation is not sounded in a way that is perceived as an /ɾ/ by Japanese listeners. --Lambiam 10:37, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For some reason, the actor Gerard Butler is known as ジェラルド・バトラー. It might be because he's Scottish and rolled R is close to Japanese /r/, or because the name was confused with the more common Gerald, which is transcribed as ジェラルド. My hunch is the latter. Nardog (talk) 15:45, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, but note that the given names of both Gerard K. O'Neill, Gerard Schwartz, and many others, are written as ジェラード. The spelling ジェラルド is also used for Gerard Gordeau and Gerard Peter Kuiper (both Dutch) and Gerard Toal (Irish), which suggests a system. However, the Japanese Wikipedia uses this also for Gerard King and Gerard Way (both American). --Lambiam 20:00, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

C and Ä

Are there any languages which use both C and Ä in native words? Are there any languages which has may words beginning with cä-? --40bus (talk) 18:36, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you include digraphs such as ch, ck and sch, plenty. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 19:06, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately the Deutsches Wörterbuch has words starting with C still in the original 1855 version by the Brothers Grimm. It only has Cäpselein on offer, which modern Germans would not spell with a C. —Kusma (talk) 19:15, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looking up Wiktionary, German seems to have a few loanwords beginning with cä-, which might be deprecated. Otherwise, I found that the initial combination is valid in Volapük (which arguably might not count as being a constructed language) and the minor language Khumi Chin (which might not be written that often, but apparently has a produced Bible). 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 19:37, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cäsium, Cäsar and Cäsaropapismus are all still current, but definitely of Latin origin, so not native. —Kusma (talk) 19:58, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The first of these is sometimes (IIRC, more commonly in the past) nativised as Zäsium. Double sharp (talk) 04:22, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There are some in Tatar. Here's their article on tt:Cäzwä, which in English (and Turkish) is Cezve. I guess that's not a native word, but perhaps tt:Cäyläw is. (I gather from the Polish version of the article that this is a kind of alpine pasture in Crimea, although my auto-translate has decided the Polish version of the word means "eggs", leading to confusing sentences like "There are 10 eggs in Crimea, occurring in two groups: western and eastern."). Card Zero (talk) 19:59, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Cäy" apparently means summer (?), which feels suspiciously native... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 21:56, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tatar käcä, "goat", is almost certainly not a loanword. It has cognates in Turkish (and Azerbaijani) keçi and other Turkic languages, probably deriving from a Proto-Turkic term *keči. --Lambiam 12:54, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Balkan Romani. Dinka. Skolt Sámi. Slovak. Welsh. — kwami (talk) 22:39, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Welsh too? --40bus (talk) 10:21, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In Welsh, apparently the ¨ diaeresis is used to mark that a usual diphtong is to be pronounced with two separate vowel sounds, similar to several Romance languages, so the particular combination 'cä' might not be in actual usage(?) 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 12:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably not, but the first question was whether any language has both letters. — kwami (talk) 16:53, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Scrabble_letter_distributions may help. Look for languages where both the C and Ä tiles appear in high numbers and low scores. This, of course, is not foolproof. In some language like French, the A tile would be used for ä – though it turns out ä is either nonexistent or vanishingly rare in French. But it's a starting point. – b_jonas 00:04, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

July 2

Hype

OP is a banned user

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This news report [4] begins:

Last summer the UK posted a new record temperature as the mercury tipped above 40C for the first time in history. Now, in a chilling prediction, experts have said this could soon be much more common.

The use of the word "chilling" in the context seems counter-intuitive. Is there a word for this kind of metaphor? 2A00:23A8:0:3D01:B146:4391:37DC:D954 (talk) 11:21, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a pun or play on words; being ironic, funny (intentionally or not). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:02, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is this concept of "mixed metaphor", although I'm not sure whether it applies here. [5] 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 16:44, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I scanned down the list in Figure of speech, but didn't see anything obvious. A character in an Arthur Schnitzler play goes on about the "lively" red dress he saw worn at a funeral... AnonMoos (talk) 15:39, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

July 3

75

We have the wonderful words septuagenarian and octogenarian for people who make it to 70 and 80 respectively. Is there an equivalent word for someone who gets to three quarters of a century? Would the amateur neologists here care to invent one? Asking for a friend. HiLo48 (talk) 02:16, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The word for 3/4ths was "dodrans", so maybe a "dodranticentenarian"? AnonMoos (talk) 02:34, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What do you know, Wikipedia even has an article on Dodrans... AnonMoos (talk) 02:36, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. The "distributive" form of the number 75 in Latin would be "septuageni quini", but it's not obvious to me how to combine these into a single word... AnonMoos (talk) 02:49, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Quini-viceni is Latin for "twenty-five each",^[6] so I suppose a distributive form of 75 could be "quini-septuageni". Note that quinisextus is formed from quinque + sextus, so the ancient Romans were not adverse to the quinification of quinque in non-distributive uses either. (However, while the distributive form has quīnī-, which is presumably declined in tandem with septuāgēnī, the second use has a presumably invariant quīni-.) As to coining a conceivable English word, I suggest "quiniseptuagenarian". --Lambiam 15:13, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

semisesquicentennarian or demisesquicentennarian (from semisesquicentennial), or possibly hemi-... Mitch Ames (talk) 07:55, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Probably "-centenarian" without a doubled consonant would be preferred. "Demi" is French and "Hemi" is Greek; they appear in certain names of musical notes, but I don't see that they would add anything to Latin "Semi" here... AnonMoos (talk) 08:29, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Belafonte "Drink this Wedding Toast"

The above is not the song title. LP gives song title so: WILL HIS LOVE BE LIKE HIS RUM. Pronoun capitalization makes it look like a hymn. How shall we capitalize? Temerarius (talk) 16:30, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Will His Love Be like His Rum". See MOS:TITLECAPS, where His is specifically given as an example of a pronoun that should be capped. (Like serves as a preposition in the title, so under the "five-letter rule" it shouldn't be capped.) Hymns have nothing to do with the matter. Deor (talk) 16:58, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I should have said, Wikipedia's odd guide aside, I intend it as a general question of best style. My supposition about implications of a deity are reflective of a tradition of style, not my invention. My first impulse is to render "Will his Love Be like his Rum?" Temerarius (talk) 20:19, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I know of no style for titles (except for those that use sentence-style capitalization) that would lowercase his. If you search for the title on the Internet, most places capitalize every word in this title. Deor (talk) 21:38, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If it's stylized with all words capitalized, then so it should be here. But Wikipedians know better, right? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:06, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not necessarily "better", but we do have a Manual of Style into which a good deal of thought has gone, which is more than most sites on the Internet have. And many of of the "most places" I referred to above are hardly reliable sources (lyrics sites, etc.). Deor (talk) 23:24, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]