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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 97.124.47.226 (talk) at 17:18, 6 July 2023 (→Azim Khan wikilink: meant "text"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Resolve conflict please

Need your involvement Admin Sahib Ranjit Singh article

Ranjit Singh

Reason: small level of vandalism.

  • RegentsPark, Ranjit singh Article has been conflicted by editor see user:Hind ji,he always edit jat caste related articles or I think he belongs to jat caste please see the log of user:Hind ji[[1]]So your involvement requested to resolve the conflict ,there are variety of resources available on the internet but recently University had his researched on criminal tribes shows Ranjit Singh belongs to sansi caste :Hind ji try to declared Ranjit Singh as jat ,I have added that link as reliable source or as reference but one of user:Hind ji has reverted my edit without informing me .I may also have been wrong ,kindly resolve our issues.hope for early reply Thank you.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/features/research-on-tribes-dubbed-criminal-by-british-397524 He trying to create influence of jat caste .

Family was Sansi Sikh or Jatt Sikh or Neither is disputed

This subject about Ranjit Singh's family is disputed among historians. Some claim as Sansi Sikh, some claim as Sandhiawala Jat Sikh and some claim him just as plain Sikh. Since such subject is disputed, the mention of clan shouldn't be applied on the article but should rather be kept neutral. MehmoodS (talk) 14:42, 15 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • The reason to remove Sansi family or Jatt family is because there is major dispute where some historians say that Ranjit Singh's family was Sansi Sikh and some say that it was Jatt Sikh and then there are others who say that it was neither but just simply Sikh. Here is a link that clarifies the dispute [2]. So to be neutral, Sansi or Jatt should be removed. MehmoodS (talk) 18:37, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • User:Aj indiana Before reverting changes, I have told you to discuss the dispute here on the talk page and yet you haven't addressed it. Whether Ranjit Singh was Jat or Sansi has been disputed by many historians and this information here clarifies the dispute [3]. So to avoid the dispute among editors on the background where one wants to claim Sansi and the other as Jatt, this information was removed. Because this will cause continous edit warring. MehmoodS (talk) 21:39, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

He was a Sandhawalia Jat Prerit Tushir (talk) 07:36, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2022

Maharaja Ranjit Singh was jat sikh 122.161.66.242 (talk) 03:13, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Bsoyka (talk) 23:24, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2022

Tushir 25 (talk) 16:34, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pls mention him as a Jat sikh of Sandhawalia clan Tushir 25 (talk) 16:37, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He was a Sandhawalia Jat Tushir 25 (talk) 16:35, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 17:13, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have sources Tushir 25 (talk) 00:46, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Genealogical family tree is incorrect regarding the position of Nodh and Buddha Singh

Nodh Singh (d. 1752) was the son of Buddha Singh (d. 1718) rather than the reverse (as it is being erroneously portrayed as currently in the table). Please see the updated genealogical trees in 'The Panjab Chiefs' by L.H. Griffin, 'Chiefs and Families of Note in the Panjab' by C.F. Massy, and the genealogical table presented in 'Maharaja Ranjit Singh - First Death Centenary Memorial (1939)'. ThethPunjabi (talk) 11:12, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Buddha Singh Man was the first son of Mana Singh apparently named after his ancestor, Buddha Singh. See The Sikh Encyclopedia Buddha Singh and The Sikh Encyclopedia Buddha Singh Man. So Ranjit had an older brother Buddha and they were both sons of Maha Singh, son of Charat Singh, son of Naudh Singh, son of Buddha Singh whose ancestor, Bhara Mall was initiated into the Sikh faith by the seventh Sikh leader, Guru Har Rai. See page 14 of 'The Panjab Chiefs' (1865 edition) you mentioned. (I also found a 1890 edition of 'The Panjab Chiefs' here.) So the chart is not incorrect, just incomplete. Richard-of-Earth (talk) 18:44, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Add him as a Sikh Jat

Add him as a Sikh Jat👆 Jat Raj (talk) 04:44, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

His Spouses included a Muslim woman

his wife was also Moran Sarkar. Please add: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moran_Sarkar 2407:D000:B:C9BE:3299:E3EA:8B6A:FCE6 (talk) 10:10, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Non-HISTRS sources

Abh9850, regarding your this edit, the first source cited by you is authored by Sher Singh 'Sher' who was a Punjabi poet-cum-writer, rather than a historian.[1] He completed his postgraduation in agriculture and literature. Later on, he wrote a few anthropological accounts about his own Sansi tribe. And this locally-published source is authored by a couple of sociologists, rather than historians – see WP:CONTEXTMATTERS and WP:HISTRS. Not to mention the last nonscholarly source which is authored by Kamaladevi Chattopadhyay, who was a freedom fighter and an actor. So these three are locally-published sources from non-historians and are not WP:HISTRS. They are not even reliable for historical details, let alone using them for challenging all the subject specialists, i.e. the historians specialising in Sikh history.

References

References

  1. ^ Sarna, Jasbir Singh, ed. (2003). World Punjabi Writers Who's Who. Sant & Singh Publishers. p. 65. SHER SINGH SHER: M.A; M.Sc; b: Sept 13, 1924. b.P: Vill Chanianwali, Sheikhupura, Pakistan Prof: PR Officer to Governor of Punjab (70-72) A&P: Padmashri 1982, Punjabi Sahit Kala Kendra, Chandigarh 1982, Khalsa Diwan Society, Van Couver Canada (1976) etc.

- NitinMlk (talk) 19:24, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Origin

For historical facts, we need historians, i.e. HISTAR-compliant sources. The subject of this article is covered by multiple historians specialising in Sikh history and all of their sources that I have seen so far state that he was a Jat by origin. That includes W. H. McLeod,[1] Hari Ram Gupta,[2] Ganda Singh,[3] A. C. Arora,[4] Bhagat Singh,[5] Fauja Singh,[6] Mandeep Kaur Samra,[7] etc. Even historian Rajmohan Gandhi mentions the same thing in his book focusing on Ranjit Singh's empire.[8][9]

Ranjit Singh's first known ancestor who accepted Sikhism (Budha Singh) was a Jat.[3][5] His father (Maha Singh) and grandfather (Charat Singh) were Jats.[4] His Sukerchakia Misl, which was founded by his grandfather, was obviously of Jat ethnicity.[10][11] Note that his ethnic/caste background played an important part in his personal as well as ruling life: he married two widows under the Jat customs;[12] his state policies were also affected by it.[13]

So historians are very clear about the Jat background of him and his parents, his grandparents, his Misl, and his first known ancestor.

References

References

  1. ^ McLeod, W. H. (2004). Sikhs and Sikhism. Oxford University Press. p. 18. ISBN 978-0-19-566892-6. It is obvious that their leadership was largely in Jaț hands and eventually it was a Jaț misldār, Raňjīt Siṅgh, who secured total ascendancy. Individual chieftains such as Jassā Siṅgh Kalāl (later known as Jassā Siṅgh Ahlūwālīā) and his namesake Jassā Siṅgh Rāmgaṛhiā represent leadership derived from lower-status groups, but do not disturb the dominant pattern.
  2. ^ Gupta, Hari Ram (1991). History of the Sikhs. Vol. V: The Sikh Lion of Lahore, (Maharaja Ranjit Singh, 1799-1839) (1st ed.). Munshiram Manoharlal. p. xi. ISBN 978-8-12-150515-4. Ranjit Singh was the one man of genius the Sikh Jat tribe had produced. He converted the Sikhs into a unified community. He made them a ruling class consisting of the finest soldiers, great generals and successful administrators.
  3. ^ a b Singh, Ganda (October 1980). Singh, Ganda (ed.). "Maharaja Ranjit Singh: A Short Life-sketch". The Panjab Past and Present. 14 (2). Punjabi University: 7. ISSN 0031-0786. The first ancestor of Maharaja Ranjit Singh to have joined the Sikh brotherhood was Buddha Singh, a ploughman Jat of the village of Sukkarchak in the Majha tract of the Panjab. Buddha Singh was initiated into Sikhism by the Sixth Guru Hargobind.
  4. ^ a b Arora, A. C. (1984). "Ranjit Singh's Relations with the Jind State". In Singh, Fauja; Arora, A. C. (eds.). Maharaja Ranjit Singh: Politics, Society, and Economy. Punjabi University. p. 86. OCLC 557676461. Even before the birth of Ranjit Singh, cordial relations had been established between the Sukarchakia Misal and the Phulkian House of Jind. Though there was a distance of about 350 kilometers between the capitals of the two chiefships, which was not inconsiderable in those days when modern means of communication had not yet developed, the two Sikh Jat chiefships had cultivated intimate relationship with each other by means of a matrimonial alliance. Maha Singh, the son of the founder of Sukarchakia Misal, Charat Singh, was married to Raj Kaur, the daughter of the founder of the Jind State, Gajpat Singh.
  5. ^ a b Singh, Bhagat (1993). A History of the Sikh Misals (1st ed.). Punjabi University. p. 175. OCLC 30513185. Budha Singh,1 an affluent Jat farmer of the village of Sukarchak in the Majha tract of the Punjab, was the first historically known ancestor of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. His original name was Desu.2 He was born in 1670.3 He possessed 25 acres of land and three ploughs and a well. On this land he had built a couple of houses for his family and cattle. The place was named Sukarchak. Sukar means small and narrow and chak signifies a petty tract of land.
  6. ^ Singh, Fauja (1984). "The Cultural Basis of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's State". In Singh, Fauja; Arora, A. C. (eds.). Maharaja Ranjit Singh: Politics, Society, and Economy. Punjabi University. p. 312. OCLC 557676461. In order to understand the character, personality and policy formulation of Maharaja Ranjit Singh properly and in the correct historical perspective it is essential to look into social roots. Ranjit Singh hailed from a Sikh Jat peasant family which, like other ordinary peasant families of the times, was little known outside the village Sukarchak to which it belonged.
  7. ^ Samra, Mandeep Kaur (1993). Singh, Ganda (ed.). "Socio -Cultural Conditions of Early to Mid-Nineteenth Century Punjab as Described by Baba Prem Singh Hoti". The Panjab Past and Present. 27 (2). Punjabi University: 63. ISSN 0031-0786. Jats constituted the most important and powerful class among the Sikhs. Described as manly, hospitable, industrious virile but simple folk, the Jats were the 'fighting arm of the Sikh chivalry', their main professions were agriculture and soldiering. Ranjeet Singh a Jat himself knew their potential for dash and courage and gave them important posts in the army. For example Desa Singh Majithia, Lehna Singh Sandhanwalia, Attar Singh Sandhanwalia, Ajit Singh Sandhanwalia, Sham Singh Attariwala and many others were Jat Sikhs.
  8. ^ Gandhi, Rajmohan (2013). Punjab: A History from Aurangzeb to Mountbatten. Aleph Book Company. p. 137. ISBN 978-9-38-227758-3. Young Ranjit Singh's willingness to become a king revealed boldness, for it went against his Jat background and against Sikh tradition as well. It was also bound to invite hostility within his misl and from chiefs of rival misls. Ranjit Singh reckoned, however, that the populace, longing for a return of Mughal-era stability, would welcome a monarchy.
  9. ^ Gandhi, Rajmohan (1999). Revenge and Reconciliation: Understanding South Asian. Penguin. p. 178. ISBN 978-0-14-029045-5. To those may be added the final defeat and death in 1799 of Britain's principal foe in the South, Tipu Sultan; the 1799 takeover of Lahore and much of the Punjab by the Jat Sikh chieftain Ranjit Singh, who two years later assumed the royal title of Maharaja; the defeat in 1803 of the Maratha power in central and northern India, which also brought Delhi under British control; and, in 1817, the snuffing out by the British in Poona of the last flicker of Peshwa defiance.
  10. ^ Dhavan, Purnima (2011). When Sparrows Became Hawks: The Making of the Sikh Warrior Tradition, 1699-1799. Oxford University Press. p. 61. ISBN 978-0-19-975655-1.
  11. ^ Sachdeva, Veena (1993). Polity and Economy of the Punjab During the Late Eighteenth Century. Manohar. p. 163. ISBN 978-81-7304-033-7.
  12. ^ Gandhi, Rajmohan (2013). Punjab: A History from Aurangzeb to Mountbatten. Aleph Book Company. p. 159. ISBN 978-9-38-227758-3. His victories in Multan, Peshawar and Kashmir were still fresh when three new sons were born to Ranjit Singh. The mothers, Rattan Kaur and Daya Kaur, had been the wives of Sahib Singh Bhangi, who died in 1811. In conformity with Jat custom at the time, Ranjit Singh had taken both widows under his wing.
  13. ^ Singh, Fauja (1984). "The Cultural Basis of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's State". In Singh, Fauja; Arora, A. C. (eds.). Maharaja Ranjit Singh: Politics, Society, and Economy. Punjabi University. p. 312–317. OCLC 557676461.

- NitinMlk (talk) 19:31, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@NitinMlk Great write-up. I have also noticed the family trees in the article mixed-up the positions of his ancestors Budha Singh (born Desu) and Nodha Singh. Budha was the father of Nodha, not vice-versa like the family trees were suggesting, seemingly based off of an erroneous tree presented in 'Punjab Chiefs' by Lepel Griffin (first published in 1865). I have gone ahead and removed both family trees from the article as a result. ThethPunjabi (talk) 23:58, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2023

Please change the name from Ranjit Singh to Maharaja Ranjit Singh Karanb69 (talk) 13:11, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Please see WP:HONORIFICS. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:38, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We have an article on Azim Khan, which could be wikilinked on text found in the "Expansion" section, but currently isn't. Could That wikilink be added? -- 97.124.47.226 (talk) 06:39, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just to confirm, he is the general from 1813. Looking at his wiki page, it makes no mention that he was a general, but I will assume that he was based on context. Heart (talk) 06:47, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
 Done (with removal of 'General' to make it less ambiguous). Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 06:58, 5 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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