Talk:John Fisher

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I've moved here the following contrib by 86.136.108.46 (talk · contribs)

There is also a roman catholic boy's school named The John Fisher School, in Purley, England. It is the only school to be called The John Fisher School, as it was founded principally before Fisher was cannonized

to here since

1. a college is a type of school, and we need to know which other kinds of schools besides the college (and what countries, if any, since the vagueness and the difficulty of world-wide verification raise that possibility) the editor is excluding, and
2. "principally" is unencyclopedically vague: when was it "first founded", and what further events, that in some sense could be called further foundings, took place later?
3. as written, the word "as" implies a relation between the uniqueness of the name and the timing. Ah! This is a school without "St." in its name. Sooo...

Is this verifiable?:

The Roman Catholic boys' school in Purley, England is named The John Fisher School after him. The lack of "St." or "Saint" in its name reflects its history's beginning before his canonization.

"Only" is of very little encyclopedic interest, since we can leave it to Guiness to settle bar bets. That may leave only the need for Dab'n between Purley, London & Purley-On-Thames.
--Jerzy•t 21:44, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Here's one http://www.sjfchs.org.uk/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.1.112.32 (talk) 20:54, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

I seem to recall that in the past there was some coverage on this page of Fisher's loose plotting with Catholics that wanted to overthrow Henry. Was this deemed inaccurate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.237.174 (talk) 22:18, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Hagiography

The article appears to have been written in a disctinctly hagiographical vein (? as befits a Saint). As such it differs from that on Sir Thomas More, who is portrayed "warts and all". I do not know enough about Fisher to contradict this, but certainly he seems to have been involved in the interrogation and subsequent burning of at least one Protestant martyr, so perhaps more balance is needed. Millbanks (talk) 07:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Everything I have read states that Fisher was not involved in burning heretics. Is there a source for this or do you just think he did because he was a bishop in the sixteenth-century? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.184.95 (talk) 08:26, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

If there is evidence for this he would not be on the list of Saints. If there was found the slightest evidence of wrong-doing on his part, between 29Dec.1886 and 19May1935 he would not have been canonized. MacOfJesus (talk) 17:55, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of hagiography, wow. He never sinned? Even according to Catholic doctrine, saints sin. Sheesh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.237.174 (talk) 22:17, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

No, there is a difference between unrepentant wrongdoing, and a confessed sinner. I was referring to unrepentant wrongdoing, such as having a hand in the death of someone. See the life of Saint Dismas. He did all that and more but was repentant on the cross. "Remember me when you come into Your Kingdom". Jesus Himself canonized him. MacOfJesus (talk) 13:01, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

As I recall, and I believe was stated in an earlier version of this article, Fisher became involved in intrigues against Henry to a degree and manner that for instance Thomas More never did. These intrigues are important and should be included. It is briefly mentioned in this link:

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=5108 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.250.206.188 (talk) 14:56, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Bot-created subpage

A temporary subpage at User:Polbot/fjc/John Fisher was automatically created by a perl script, based on this article at the Biographical Directory of Federal Judges. The subpage should either be merged into this article, or moved and disambiguated. Polbot (talk) 20:43, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Duplicated sentence

In November 1529, the "Long Parliament" of Henry's reign began its series of encroachments on the Church. Fisher, as a member of the upper house, at once warned Parliament that such acts could only end in the utter destruction of the Church in England. On this the Commons, through their speaker, complained to the king that the bishop had disparaged Parliament,

This sentence ends the section Defense of Catherine of Aragon and is then duplicted at the beginning of the next section, Henry Attacks the Church. One or the other needs to go. Most concerned editor should choose.Buster Seven Talk 01:02, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done

Cardinal John Fisher

"Catholic piety conventionally explains the scarlet robes that Cardinals wear as a sign of their readiness to shed their blood for the sake of the Christian gospel. This is an edifying thought: but as a matter of fact, in the whole millenium-long history of the cardinalate, only one member of the Sacred College has actually ever suffered martyrdom. That man was John Fisher. (...)

He had many friends among the bishops (...). But one by one, they parted company from him, succumbing to the threats of their implacable royal master, renouncing the Pope, the unity of Catholic Europe. That growing isolation was the measure of Fisher's courage, a measure by which all his brother bishops proved so notably lacking. Maybe absolute integrity is destined always to fall foul of absolute power." (Eamon Duffy: Saints, Sacrilege and Sedition, p. 150)--Analogia (talk) 08:17, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Serious Bias

This article is seriously biased using terms that can not be justified and not dealing properly with his principal role in plots against the Tudor state. --2.127.214.169 (talk) 21:18, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Anglican Communion Calendar of Saints

I think it should simply be mentioned that he is honoured in some Calendar of Saints of the Church of England and other provinces of the Anglican Communion. It makes absolutely no sense to mention those calendars were he is absent. We can't forget that the Anglican Communion title of saint is merely honorific, their churches have no mechanism to beatify and canonize saints like the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches.Mistico (talk) 18:43, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Saint John Fisher.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:51, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Extreme bias

This is an incredibly biased article; as others have pointed out, it reads like Roman Catholic hagiography. He's a saint of the RC church, no doubt, but this site is not for hagiography.

This is especially bad in the section "Henry's attack on the church." (An Anglican would not consider it an attack on the church, but a change or clarification of church government.) The section engages in a great deal of speculation about Henry VIII's motivations and even actions ("presumably with Henry prompting them behind the scenes" and "leaving it to the Commons to declare that the explanation was inadequate, so that he appeared as a magnanimous sovereign, instead of Fisher's enemy.").

I'll leave this comment here a few days for discussion. Then I plan to go through and correct some of this. 129.110.242.24 (talk) 21:36, 12 July 2023 (UTC)