User talk:MonicaAng
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Happy editing! Name Omitted (talk) 05:57, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
What is going on?
Your entire Wikipedia career has been devoted to removing negative information about Joan Crawford. Either there's been a vast conspiracy to insert sourced, false information about her (and you also somehow have access to every book written about Joan Crawford ever), or you've been removing true information that you'd prefer not to be on Wikipedia. Can you explain yourself? Rublov (talk) 12:35, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- I agree with Rublov. You may discuss on the talk page what you think is wrong--in detail, with a discussion of the sources. Drmies (talk) 17:42, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- No, I have been correcting accusations which are not even properly sourced. I do have several Crawford biographies, among many Hollywood bios, and much of the information I have corrected is due to sensationalist content being contained in these articles as fact when it is not fact, and in addition, not even properly sourced with a means to validate the information in the cited source. MonicaAng (talk) 17:51, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- I understand you think you are right, and yet your opinion by itself is not enough ground. Nor is your argument about "Gay fans" very strong: you're saying "he's no expert on the gay community", but that, and "he's no professor", are not sufficient to remove the information which of course has a relevance to the article. If you want to claim that sourced information needs to be scrapped because the source isn't strong enough, you'll have to explain why the sources aren't strong enough. Drmies (talk) 18:55, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- Actually, I think that's a very strong point. The comment/opinion of a person who is not a scholar, professor or an otherwise expert on the gay community has no relevance being quoted within the article as if he were. There is no data, survey or study cited by Quirk in his book that supports his own personal opinion on the topic. I originally removed the quote by Quirk because when I visited the sourced content I discovered that it was not properly referenced (Quirk's comment in his book is not what was written in the article, it was paraphrased and misworded). Regardless, I am not going to waste time attempting to argue this point, and I will not attempt to remove it from the article again. MonicaAng (talk) 19:19, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- Basic fact is that the book was published by a real press, supposedly with editors and reviewers and copy editors and all that, and all that means that you will have to come with stronger arguments than that--it's the equivalent of original research. If something is misquoted, that's another matter. Drmies (talk) 02:27, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
- Key word of your statement is "supposedly." But beyond that, as mentioned above, Quirk's comment was his own, personal, opinion on the topic. He was not an expert on the gay community or Crawford's influence on the gay community. He was not a professional in sociology, and his comment on the topic is obviously irrelevant, just as much as if he gave a medical or psychological diagnose in his book without credentials in either field. But, as I said, I am not going to waste time arguing this issue because I know what the result would be, just like I am very aware why this conversation was diverted to my personal talk page, rather than on the article's talk page (where it belongs). Cheers MonicaAng (talk) 02:38, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
- Basic fact is that the book was published by a real press, supposedly with editors and reviewers and copy editors and all that, and all that means that you will have to come with stronger arguments than that--it's the equivalent of original research. If something is misquoted, that's another matter. Drmies (talk) 02:27, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
- Actually, I think that's a very strong point. The comment/opinion of a person who is not a scholar, professor or an otherwise expert on the gay community has no relevance being quoted within the article as if he were. There is no data, survey or study cited by Quirk in his book that supports his own personal opinion on the topic. I originally removed the quote by Quirk because when I visited the sourced content I discovered that it was not properly referenced (Quirk's comment in his book is not what was written in the article, it was paraphrased and misworded). Regardless, I am not going to waste time attempting to argue this point, and I will not attempt to remove it from the article again. MonicaAng (talk) 19:19, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- I understand you think you are right, and yet your opinion by itself is not enough ground. Nor is your argument about "Gay fans" very strong: you're saying "he's no expert on the gay community", but that, and "he's no professor", are not sufficient to remove the information which of course has a relevance to the article. If you want to claim that sourced information needs to be scrapped because the source isn't strong enough, you'll have to explain why the sources aren't strong enough. Drmies (talk) 18:55, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
- No, I have been correcting accusations which are not even properly sourced. I do have several Crawford biographies, among many Hollywood bios, and much of the information I have corrected is due to sensationalist content being contained in these articles as fact when it is not fact, and in addition, not even properly sourced with a means to validate the information in the cited source. MonicaAng (talk) 17:51, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
I started this thread on your talk page because it encompasses your behavior on a large number of articles, not just Joan Crawford, for example (links are diffs) What Ever Happened to Baby Jane? (film), The Best of Everything (film), and Berserk!, to name just a few. In each of these cases, you have removed sourced content with a misleading edit summary like Removed statements that are not properly referenced
. As far as I can see, every single one of your edits has had something to do with Joan Crawford or someone closely related to her. Rublov (talk) 13:27, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
Bette Davis and the Hollywood Canteen
Please stop erasing the history of the Hollywood Canteen - including the contributions of Bette Davis. She co-founded the canteen with John Garfield, acted as its president, made critical decisions regarding its integration policy and her work eventually earned her the Distinguished Service Medal from the Pentagon in 1983. It's clear you don't like Bette Davis - but you are erasing Hollywood's involvement in World War II.
Since you are critical of sources, the information from above can be found from these legitimate, contemporary articles:
"Bette Davis Heads Canteen Again". The New York Times. April 19, 1944.
"Bette Davis Overrules Objection to Mixed Couples at Hollywood Canteen". Cleveland Call and Post. January 23, 1943.
"Pentagon: Actress Bette Davis will receive the Pentagon's Medal for Distinguished War Service" UPI Archives. United Press International. June 7, 1983.
"Medal is given to Bette Davis". The Baltimore Sun. June 13, 1983. pp. B2. Nlb2023 (talk) 19:25, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
- @MonicaAng, I agree with @Nlb2023 that your behavior here is not acceptable. All of the information that you are trying to remove is well-sourced to what appear to me to be perfectly legitimate and reliable sources (The New Yorker, The Hartford Courant, the Stern book, The Daily Boston Globe, The Pittsburg Courier, etc). Asserting that the sources are not "legitimate" or "verifiable" in edit summaries without any discussion is not acceptable, and calling other editors' work "vandalism" without evidence is a personal attack that can get you blocked from editing. At this point, if you still think you have a case to remove this information, you should open a discussion on the article talk page and explain your reasoning. Continuing to edit war as you have been doing will certainly get you a block. CodeTalker (talk) 22:21, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- Also, you removed information in Mildred Pierce (film) with an edit summary "Removed sensationalized information without any sources", and did the same in Possessed (1947 film) and Mercedes McCambridge and apparently many other articles which I am still reviewing. Anyone looking at the edit history can clearly see that in all these cases the information you removed did have a source, which you removed. This type of dishonesty is not going to go far to convince other editors of your viewpoint. (And when you make grammatical changes, please spell "grammar" correctly; that will help other editors take your changes more seriously.) CodeTalker (talk) 22:28, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- Note to other editors: this editor has similarly removed sourced content with an edit summary claiming that it was unsourced in The Star (1952 film), The Damned Don't Cry, Of Human Bondage (1934 film), and Johnny Guitar. CodeTalker (talk) 22:46, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
- Also, you removed information in Mildred Pierce (film) with an edit summary "Removed sensationalized information without any sources", and did the same in Possessed (1947 film) and Mercedes McCambridge and apparently many other articles which I am still reviewing. Anyone looking at the edit history can clearly see that in all these cases the information you removed did have a source, which you removed. This type of dishonesty is not going to go far to convince other editors of your viewpoint. (And when you make grammatical changes, please spell "grammar" correctly; that will help other editors take your changes more seriously.) CodeTalker (talk) 22:28, 5 August 2023 (UTC)