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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Sadko (talk | contribs) at 18:02, 8 August 2023 (OneClickArchiver archived Cowrie shells and the meaning of art to Talk:African art/Archive 1). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kalemckean.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:32, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

POV

"The style and fluidity of the human form in Egyptian art of this era far surpassed its counterparts in Greece which often contained awkward transition between torso and pelvis, and pelvis and thigh."

Needs a couple of references if it's going to stay, I'm not sure Egypt should canonically be considered part of 'African Art' as well. Besides, Greek art is universally considered to be the most influential (relative) artform in western culture.

You can consider Egypt part of ancient Mediterranean art, in line with Greece and Rome and whatnot, but Greece in no way straight-up borrowed its art forms from Egypt. In turn, Egyptian art had a great influence on kingdoms in Kush and Axum in Sudan and Ethiopia, so at this point many art historians do consider Egypt as part of Africa (since geographically, it is) and include discussions of Egyptian art in larger studies of African art. I'd also take exception to saying that Greek art is "universally considered" the most influential in Western culture. Most Cubists, for example, would disagree with you.Chiwara 22:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Uh, 'scuse me, but a little clarification here. Egyptian dynastic culture began in the south -- in Sudan and Ethiopia/Eritrea (ancient Abysinnia). Egypt did not merely transport art and artistic innovation to these areas. Architecturally, the first pyramids were built in Kush -- not Egypt. Egyptian civilization began in Upper Egypt and spread northward, and the flourishing of art/architecture and science was the result of a confluence of African cultures. It is wholly inaccurate, and helps fuel a eurocentrist Semitic, whites-civilizing-blacks myth to suggest that Egypt exported art to the rest of the Nile Valley civilizations. Certainly, Egyptian art is African art. In fact, some very early examples of Egyptian statuary often are mistaken for West African/sub-Saharan art. There is, in fact, a piece on prominent display in the collection of Frank Lloyd Wright at Falling Water. deeceevoice 16:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Egypt gave overwhermingly more advances in art, culture, civilization, domesticiation, and many other things to the rest of Africa (as did other African civilizations such as the Bantu peoples, the empire of mali, and ethiopia, of course) than it received from them. Domestication-- which is the very basis for having a sizable enough population to even have a civilization, and even build pyramids in the first place (by the way, I'd like you to show proof that the first pyramids were in Kush)-- came to Egypt from the Fertile Crescent. Only after domestication techniques were introduced from the Fertile Crescent was Egypt able to domesticate sycamore figs, chufas, donkeys and cats-- advances which they would spread to nearby parts of Africa. In Africa, there is no guarantee that anyone ever developed domestication independently-- Ethiopia, Sahel, and parts of West Africa may have independently developed domestication, but the jury is still out on that-- and Egypt surely did not.
The effect of domestication on history is very difficult to underestimate-- if you look at civilizations which have succeeded its either those who independently developed domestication, or those who got it from other cultures and then domesticated a couple of their own local species. Civilizations without domestication (except in rare instances) have not been able to produce enough food to feed such specialists as artists, kings, etc. This is why so much African art is so solely concerned with utility-- because that's the only feasible option in societies without a huge food surplus.
You thinking that this strongly supported historical record fuels whites-civilizing-blacks myths has nothing to do with whether or not it happened. It simply did. Not because of Egyptians' skin color, but because of their geography and natural resources available to them, as well as an excellent trading position.--Urthogie 17:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have no idea where you get information from, but the first pyramid was King Djoser's pyramid at Saqqara from about 2600 BCE. This predates any and all pyramids elsewhere, including those in Kush, the most famous of which are at Meroe from the first millennium BCE. Also, I'm absolutely shocked that, again, I'm hearing people say that African art is solely concerned with utility. Go watch a Yoruba egungun masquerade and tell me what the utility of that is. Berber decorated multicolored wedding garments, Kongo imperial statuary, Maasai beadwork, I could go on. These objects are by no means utilitarian. To say that all African societies never had any food surplus is blatantly wrong, and frankly ignores all of the incredibly power and wealthy states and kingdoms that have existed in Africa throughout its history. Kongo, Songhai, Mali, Ghana, Swahili city-states, Great Zimbabwe. And to even equate "not having a food surplus" with "only making utilitarian art" also seems ludicrous to me, and frankly to many other art historians. If we assume the Maasai, for instance, never had a food surplus (which is probably very wrong), you can't tell me that their incredibly detailed an decorative beadwork is purely utilitarian. It's functional in that it conveys social messages like status, class position, gender and whatnot - but is by no means physically functional.Chiwara 18:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Noone is saying that African art is purely utilitarian. What I said is that where there was no food surplus, there was very varely non-utilitarian art.
  • Noone is saying that art that is utilized does not convey artistic, social, etc. messages. I never said the utilized art is somehow inferior. It simply represents the resources available in the society.
  • Noone is saying African nations didn't have food surpluses. Many of them did, such as those in Egypt, Sahel, West Africa, Mali, and Ethiopia, among others.
  • What you say about the Egyptian pyramid simply proves my point. The Egyptians started domesticating in 6000 BC, after domestication was introduced to them from the fertile crescent.
  • Noone is saying you need domestication for a food surplus. However, most food surpluses of a significant degree have occured in sedentary societies that domesticate and farm.

--Urthogie 20:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Common Features

You're all missing a huge feature common to nearly all African art: the human figure. It is the primary subject of African art.

Also, I don't think having utility as a unique African trait makes much sense, because ALL art has literal or symbolic utility. There is no such thing as a work of art in any culture that just sits there being art and nothing else, without any context.

I agree with you on both accounts. I am very much in favor of removing the "utility" tag, since as I believe I said elsewhere, all art has "utility" in some sense. As for African art being primarily humanistic: if there is one generalization about representational African art you can make, that one I would not have a problem agreeing with. Chiwara 05:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm currently taking a course on African Art History. When I have more time I'll update the common features with sources from my textbooks.::Rglong 06:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The "common features" section was originally taken ver batim from Monica Visona's "History of Art in Africa," now considered the standard book in the field. I am wondering whether the section needs to be there at all, especially considering the complete lack of info on the diversity of African arts in this article. As soon as the school year is over, I plan on creating subheading sections based on geographical regions, then classifying by people for the "traditional" section. The contemporary section needs a lot of work too.Chiwara 05:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re-Organization

It's summertime, so now I have time to commit to this article. I'd like others' input in the article's re-organization - I think it would make sense for this article to be divided into section by geographical area, and then sub-sectioned by cultural group. I don't think it is wise to divide it by country, since so many culture groups extend beyond national borders (i.e. the Chokwe and Yoruba peoples. Before making changes, I'd like to get a list of what the regions should be, and the groups contained therein. Here's mine for now:

NILE VALLEY: Ancient Egypt (Kemet); Kush; Nubia; Islamic Egypt; Coptic Egypt; Ethiopia

SAHARA and MAGHREB: Central Saharan rock art; ancient states (Carthage, Numidia, Mauritania); Berber/Tamazigh arts

CENTRAL SUDAN: Nok; Bura; Sao; Mumuye; Hausa; Fulani

UPPER NIGER (MANDE): Djenne; Mali; Songhai

WESTERN SUDAN: Tellem; Dogon; Senufo; Bwa; Bamana

WESTERN ATLANTIC: Sapi; Dan; Guro; Sande

GOLD COAST: Akan (Asante); Fante

LOWER NIGER and NIGERIA: Ife; Yoruba; Fon; Benin; Igbo

CAMEROON and GABON: Fang; Cameroon grasslands peoples

WESTERN CONGO BASIN: Kongo Kingdom; Teke; Lunda; Salampasu; Kuba

EASTERN CONGO BASIN: Luba; Hemba; Songye; Bembe; Bwende; Azande

SWAHILI COAST: Swahili and Islamic arts; Maasai

SOUTHERN AFRICA: Shona; Zimbabwe; Ndebele; Sotho; Nguni; Zulu

Any suggestions? Chiwara 02:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mali

Is Mali really Islamic? 

           Brooke  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.30.27.44 (talk) 00:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the country is, and has been for the better part of a millennium. Indigenous peoples of Mali (Dogon, Bamana, etc.) were obviously not originally Muslims, but the religion has held powerful sway - with many Dogon and Bamana peoples practicing indigenous beliefs as well as Islamic ones.Chiwara 00:20, 15 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Muslim is not necessarily the same as "Islamic" as the word is commonly used. "Islamic" often is used to mean pertaining to the religion itself and to the Middle East, or to the Moors (as in Moorish architecture). Malian culture is African and Muslim, but I wouldn't say that its, say, architecture, is predominantly Islamic (ceramic tiles, interior courtyards w/fountains, minarets, mahabishras, etc.); it is African. deeceevoice (talk) 06:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dispora art and a removal

Does anyone know exactly to what extent art scholars include the art of African diasporas under the heading "African art"? Is it placed firmly in the category of the art of Africa, the current residence of the diasporas or as a transitional variant?

I also removed the following passage from the lead since it struck as being applicable to just about any artform and since it was fact tagged:

Multiplicity of Meaning: Symbols and forms in African art are typically intended to represent different things to different members of society, depending on age, gender, education, or social status.

If anyone feels that it does apply more uniquely to African art, do by all means reinsert it.

Peter Isotalo 06:43, 17 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

African Art

Styleish mordern day art is diffrent from african art. The word "Africa" comes from the word affpria meaning jungle.

human figure evidence of african contact?

I find the sentence in the first section surprising, absolutist and probably incorrect. Certainly impossible to prove: "In historical periods involving trade between Africa and Europe, the introduction of the human body into existing European pottery and other art forms can reliably be taken as evidence of contact with African cultures". An astonishing claim and quite unreliable: in fact the human figure has been a feature of every culture's canon of art forms that I can think of since prehistory and certainly since before trade contact with Africa. There are plenty of European examples of direct representation of the human figure long before regular trade links with Africa were established. Lgh (talk) 10:47, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Help Needed on the History of Art page

Hi all, I don't know enough to make a good intro paragraph on African art, but wanted to point out to you all that the History of Art page could use some of your help. There is no good information under the African section except for a link to here. --TravisNygard (talk) 23:41, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

NEEDS MAJOR REFORM

The article does have some merit - there are many useful hints at where it could go. But it needs attention from experts, not only in the field, but in the creation of wikipedia articles. One for the future...Ackees (talk) 15:19, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to reinforce the statement of Ackees. I'm not an expert, but even the POV is personal here: "For this reason I have used [...]. I have used the name [...] This distinction may or may not be valid historically and ethnographically.." Not to speak of typos. I can contribute somehow (e.g. editing typos...), but can please some admin organise some copy-editing, rewriting, and crosslinking? I don't know any African anthropologists, and only one non-African anthropologists working in Africa. It would be great to ask someone who could integrate some expert knowledge and a neutral (i.e. non-eurocentric, but also non-nationalist/ethnocentic) viewpoint. --Botanischwili (talk) 19:25, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Picture positioning

I noticed two issues: there is a Yoruba bronze casting of Oduduwa in the Dogon section, and at the very bottom there is a Makonde ebony carving in the Egyptian section. Afro-Eurasian (talk) 04:44, 7 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Art of Burkina Faso

I have started this, moving off 13Kb of nice stuff that was too detailed for here, but keeping the "lead". It needs images and wikifying over there. One day the Mali sections need the same treatment. Meanwhile the rest of the article here remains a very poor jumble. Johnbod (talk) 16:50, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Too Reactionary

The POV and tone of this article needs reworked, it seems very "interested" in what Europeans or other groups thought of African Art. Obviously this is a reaction to slavery and colonialism, but the article on African Art should be more about African Art, and less about trying to demonstrate that it is not inferior to other forms. Perhaps someone who is not emotionally invested in the issue should write the article to be more informative and less POV. For example, I'm sure there are plenty of African people who think that Classical music is terrible, but no where on the classical musical article does it say: "Although, Africans disliked european music espspecially from the baroque period, it has now been accepted has a valuable tradition and style" This page should be about African Art not what certain groups of Europeans may or may not have thought about the art they were exposed to in the past. TheBookishOne (talk) 00:12, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Citations

I added some much needed citations in this articleKalemckean (talk) 07:28, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Plagiarism

Some parts of this articles are directly lifted from the New World Encyclopedia. http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/African_Art Librarianhelen (talk) 03:52, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Au contraire! "New World Encyclopedia writers and editors rewrote and completed the Wikipedia article in accordance with New World Encyclopedia standards..." Johnbod (talk) 04:49, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me that this is both potentially conflict of interest as well as self-plagiarism. The New World Encyclopedia should at very least be cited. Entire sections are used verbatim. If the New World Encyclopedia is copyrighted material, it doesn't matter that the authors copy and pasted their own content here. I believe I am right in saying that it is still a violation. Librarianhelen (talk) 14:37, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Huge, completely unsourced section under "Zambia"

There's a huge (nearly 1,600 words!), completely unsourced section under the heading "Contemporary African Art: By country: Zambia" that needs to be pared-down and properly sourced, or removed entirely. It is filled with weasel-words and PR-speak, such as "Zambia is arguably home to some of the world's most creative and talented artists" and "works of art that are often staggering in their scope" -- and those from just the first (of eight!) paragraph. It seems to focus on one particular organization, the Lechwe Trust, for which a Google search returns only a few hundred hits that don't point to some form of Wikimedia, or their own website. I would prefer it if the editor who added this section would take care of Wikifying it and reducing it in proportion to what is appropriate to the rest of the article, but if that doesn't happen, it should be removed entirely. Bricology (talk) 20:57, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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Where is the Traditional African religion section?

You cannot talk about African art and its history without mentioning the Traditional African religions. I am shocked that perhaps the most important aspect of this article has been overlooked. I am creating a section for it - and history would fall under that section. That section can be expanded of course with time, and it would be immensely helpful if fellow editors can help with that expansion. Senegambianamestudy (talk) 23:34, 17 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone add Sudan to the template about African art?

Hello, I have written two articles about art in Sudan: Visual arts of Sudan and Architecture of Sudan. Can someone add these to the template for African art? Thanks, Munfarid1 (talk) 12:26, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I tried, but it is wierdly/wrongly set up. Johnbod (talk) 14:13, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
User:Finnusertop may be the one responsible. Only the art one should be added here. Johnbod (talk) 14:18, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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