Talk:Han dynasty

Image problems

This is a brilliantly written article, though I have found a problem. Many images in the History section violate WP:SANDWICH. If there is a good soul who is knowledgable about the Han dynasty and could fix this that would be highly appreciated. Cheers! Wretchskull (talk) 10:12, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Sources problem

May I ask how were the sources compiled after Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution? A lot of ancient Chinese history was destroyed! 190.218.30.203 (talk) 03:12, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

China had a lot of history to start off with so what remained was still substantial. Senorangel (talk) 20:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Iron ji and knife, Han Dynasty.JPG

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:40, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Taiwan

Why isn't Taiwan shown as coming under control of the Han dynasty in the map? Ubikwit ^連絡 _{見学/迷惑} 15:12, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

I also have the same question, it is at least a consensus in the Chinese historical community that Taiwan belongs to the control of the Han Dynasty. Fibre of paramecium (talk) 15:39, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Is it really? Our article History of Taiwan claims the first possible contact was during the Sui dynasty, while the first outposts date only to the Yuan dynasty. Baidu's article on Taiwan mentions a possibility of contact during the Three Kingdoms period, but nowhere is there any claim that Han dynasty China was even aware of Taiwan, much less in control of it. Are there new archaeological discoveries that all these articles have missed? What are your sources for this reputed consensus in the Chinese historical community? Folly Mox (talk) 10:36, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

"Confucianism" as a religion during this period

I'm now at two reverts, which I don't like, the latter of which reverted an editor whom I greatly respect. But nothing I have read in the field of Han dynasty history, nor indeed the history of the succeeding centuries, indicates that Confucianism was seen as anything other than a political philosophy during this period, and I think it's deeply misleading to use "Confucianism" as a value for the |religion= infobox parameter in this article.

In the early Han dynasty, we don't even really have the differentiation of schools of thought, which were named by Sima Tan in the 100s BCE. It was "Kongzi thought" the same way we now have "Mao Zedong thought", "Deng Xiaoping thought" and so forth. It's true that Wudi made the study of certain classics that were associated with Confucius required prerequisite knowledge in the government training facility for new officers. It was a presumed subject matter perspective the same way modern politicians might be expected to have some background in law and economics. The spiritual dimension that is currently attached to Religious Confucianism was the same spirituality that had existed since before record keeping began: ancestor veneration and folk religion.

Our articles on Confucius and Confucianism are already too much written from a religious studies perspective, and lose dight of the fact that for hundreds of years, if Confucianism was mentioned at all, it was as a political philosophy and not a religion.

Obviously, I don't have sources to prove a negative. There aren't Han dynasty documents that list out religions or even use the word translated as "religion". I am open to being wrong if anyone is able to provide a sound historical soyrce demonstrating that Cobfucian thought was considered a religion during the Han period, but it's my informed understanding that it analgamated the aspects of ancestor veneration and Chinese folk religion that had always been present and subsumed them into part of itself, albeit strictly later than the period discussed as this article topic. Folly Mox (talk) 06:52, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

I entirely agree that Confucianism has been Westernized quite a bit on Wikipedia, but it is undeniable that the philosophical thoughts which would be formalized as the broad tradition of Confucianism is pertinent to the understanding of the Han, particularly from Wu onward. This being said t this point, I'd feel better also removing Daoism and Chinese folk religion (I hate that term) from the infobox as well, because the current predicament gives the sense that the former two were present and Confucianism was not.

On a technical standpoint, Chinese folk religion is unsourced in the article, and the only source for Daoism/Confucianism is "The early Western Han court simultaneously accepted the philosophical teachings of Legalism, Huang-Lao Daoism, and Confucianism in making state decisions and shaping government policy" – which talks of the Western Han court specifically, and does not say it was a "religion" per say. Aza24 (talk) 07:14, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

I disagree. The Han dynasty did have confucianism as a philosophy. Other dynasties list it. I think it should remain Zman19964 (talk) 14:21, 28 August 2023 (UTC)