Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ved Prakash Upadhyay

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. This AFD has now been open for nearly a month and it verges on being a trainwreck. I don't see a consensus here. I'm closing it as No consensus, no prejudice or waiting period for it to return to AFD for a fresh start, with a solid focus on sources and standards for notability instead of accusations against editors. Right now though, this discussion calls for closure. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:15, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Ved Prakash Upadhyay

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Ved Prakash Upadhyay (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NAUTHOR and WP:GNG.

Sources are either unreliable or they are making only a passing mention. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 02:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: India, Academics, Punjab, Languages, Hinduism, and Islam. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 03:24, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

@Aman.kumar.goel, please don't forget the steps listed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion#After nominating: Notify interested projects and editors. Thanks,

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 03:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: here are potential refs:
  • Bhatt, Kamlesh (24 April 2021). "Sanskrit Sahitya Alankar Samman to Dr. Ved Prakash Upadhyay and Dr. Jagdish Prasad Semwal". Google Translate. Dainik Jagran. Retrieved 4 August 2023.
  • "Dr. Ved Prakash Upadhyay will get President's Honor-2018". Google Translate. Khaskhabar.com. 20 August 2018. Retrieved 4 August 2023.
  • "Presidential Award to Dr. Ved Prakash Upadhyay". Google Translate. Aggarjan Patrika. 9 April 2019. Retrieved 4 August 2023.
  • "Sanskrit scholar Dr. Ved Prakash will reach Panchkula on June 24, has got more than 60 students done PhD". Punjab Kesari. 22 June 2022. Retrieved 4 August 2023.
  • Haque, M. Zeyaul. "A Hindu view of Islam". Google Translate. The Milli Gazette. Retrieved 4 August 2023.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 04:14, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Another ref:

• "Sahitya Ratna Awards announced". The Tribune (Chandigarh). 3 December 2016. Retrieved 4 August 2023.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 04:20, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Question: the Rashtrapati Award (formerly the President Award of India -- isn't that a big deal? Something like that in other countries would normally qualify someone for notability per WP:ANYBIO and WP:ACADEMIC.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 04:24, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Routine coverage about awards does not verify WP:GNG. Most of these sources make only passing mention. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 02:03, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep His significance is undeniable, as he received numerous additional honors, including the President's Award in the field of literature. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 01:32, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Rashtrapati Award is not enough for establishing GNG. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 02:03, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

I think you should read the subject-specific notability guidelines since this biography clearly meets WP:ANYBIO and WP:ACADEMIC. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 03:52, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

@DreamRimmer: Which source convinced you that the subject meets WP:ACADEMIC or WP:ANYBIO? BTW, the IP who notified you to this AfD has been blocked for socking.[1] Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 06:04, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

@Editorkamran, Could you please explain where you discovered information indicating my involvement in this matter? While patrolling the recently accepted drafts on AFC/SC, I came across this AfD. The link you provided in your previous comment is for a different AfD, to which I have not responded. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 06:36, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

I checked the edits of the IP and found that they notified you. But given your explanation, I have removed the tag I had added. Editorkamran (talk) 06:40, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

He received Rashtrapati Award (formerly the President Award), which is a significant and national-level award given by the the President of India. He also received the "Sahitya Ratna Award", a significant award in literature. According to WP:NACADEMIC, The person has received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level. and per WP:ANYBIO, The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 07:18, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

@Aman.kumar.goel, I was not requested to comment here; please do some investigation before making allegations. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 07:23, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete Just winning a notable award is not enough for meeting WP:N. Editorkamran (talk) 05:55, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

:I think it's a sockpuppet of Aman.Kumar.Goel. I request @A. B.: to do a sockpuppet investigation. 202.134.10.138 (talk) 17:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Sometimes other people just independently disagree with you; no sock- or meat puppetry is involved.

I am no longer an administrator. You can request a sock puppet investigation yourself without my help at WP:SPI.

To avoid wasting your time and others, carefully read the part that says "Before opening an investigation, you need good reason to suspect sockpuppetry." The CheckUser people will only investigate if they have "probable cause" to do so. You can't just wave your arms and say "Editorkamran and Aman.kumar.goel agree with each other too much". Here are examples of investigations where the reporting parties did a good job of laying out the evidence: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/MasaoOhba1949 and Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Maheshworld.

The better prepared you are, the easier it will be for the checkers to determine whether or not there really is a problem; see this for some guidance: Wikipedia:Signs of sockpuppetry. As I said earlier, sometimes other people just independently disagree with you.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 17:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep per my own earlier comments and those of others. Notable.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 16:37, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Not a single source provided by you has provided significant coverage to this person. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 03:16, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

@Aman.kumar.goel, I believe you haven't properly read the notability guidelines. This article is compliant with the subject-specific notability guidelines (SNG), so it does not need to adhere to the general notability guidelines (GNG). According to WP:N; topics which pass an SNG are presumed to merit an article. All of the provided information and claims are verified by reliable sources in this article. BTW significant coverage(WP:SIGCOV) is part of WP:GNG. 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 05:18, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

For example, all MLAs (legislators) are notable under WP:NPOL (SNG), even though they lack significant coverage (GNG). 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 05:24, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Again, not a single source provided which has provided significant coverage to the subject. Writing a non-notable book and winning a notable award isn't enough. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 05:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

::::::You have WP:COI with this, that's why you are just going on saying this exact line again and again because you don't have the ability now to prove it in detail. 43.245.120.228 (talk) 16:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/43.245.120.228, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence which you have not presented. Aman.kumar.goel has made 1000s of edits across a range of topics. Your edits have most been related to Ved Prakash Upadhyay and his book. While I disagree with him in this AfD, I trust him.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 17:16, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete because once the major puffery & blatant promotionalism are removed there will be nothing left but a successful career as a professor, which is not in itself notable.UrielAcosta (talk) 20:03, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. –Novem Linguae (talk) 04:49, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
• Keep: Passes 3rd criteria of NAUTHOR as author of Kalki Avatar and Muhammad which has " been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work".

Passes 2nd criteria of NACADEMIC as Rashtrapati Award is "a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level.". ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 16:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

That book is not notable either. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 05:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Book is not notable but that book has " been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work". ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 16:04, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep - Clearly meets WP:ACADEMIC, WP:ANYBIO and WP:GNG. — Masum Ibn Musa  ^Conversation 04:55, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

• See my lengthy citation analysis at the AfD for one of Dr. Upadhyay's books:
  • Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad
  • Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad

Dr. Upadhyay's ideas and writings are clearly notable.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 03:07, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep: please see - WP:ACADEMIC & WP:ANYBIO.≈ Farhan  «Talk» 04:14, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
• Delete I only see puffery and promotion. There is no chance of this subject meeting WP:GNG. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 14:39, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

  It doesn't meets GNG but meets ACADEMIC and NAUTHOR. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 16:06, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete - I am surprised by those who claim he passes WP:ACADEMIC and WP:NAUTHOR; This is completely unsupported by any of the sources, either here or on the page. Clearly non notable. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 19:04, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete -No Claim of WP:NAUTHOR and he not passes WP:GNG. Kind regards --Âvîrâm7^(talk) 13:54, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

  @Aviram7, I saw that you've voted in multiple AfDs recently, and they all seem quite similar. You're using the same format for each AfD. Could you please explain why this subject doesn't fulfil the requirements of WP:NAUTHOR or WP:GNG? 𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛 ^{𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜} 05:18, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

I believe my votes provide sufficient information, and regarding this AfD, I think this award isn't as significant as it needs to be in order to demonstrate the importance of this subject.Kind regards --Âvîrâm7^(talk) 08:04, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

@Aviram7 And what about crictism about his book? ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 18:06, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete per the tale of Cap'n Jack Sparrow - it does not appear that he meets NAUTHOR, NACADEMIC or GNG although perhaps this is a language barrier issue. Andre🚐 18:55, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep, It seems this article have the basic requirements of an article to be in Wikipedia unless there's a conflict of interest or writing an article as a propaganda for social media accounts. محمود (talk) 10:35, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:26, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete No evidence of notability. It does not pass WP:NAUTHOR because "Kalki Avatar and Muhammad" is a non-notable book. Dympies (talk) 16:19, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
• Keep: Passes WP:NACADEMIC as a long-tenured and influential professor who attained a notable national award, i.e. the Rashtrapati Award, for their services to academia. Iskandar323 (talk) 08:35, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
• Comment - After looking into the claims of receiving the Rashtrapati award 2018, which was really the only justification for keep votes based in policy, it appears that he did not win the award at all. There exist two reports from questionable sources, both of which claim that he was announced as a recipient; however, no other reports on this exist.
  Instead, he was awarded a different "Presidential Award of Certificate of Honour and Maharishi Badarayan Vyas Samman" which is nowhere near being "highly prestigious". Every year, dozens of these are given out to people above 60, these are not reflective of notability by themself.
  Like I said, the policies being cited fail to actually show the notability of the subject. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 18:27, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
  • In addition, the Rashtrapati Award seem to have been a political honor, not an academic award. See WP:NPROF#Specific criteria notes. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 20:15, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

    @The ed17, it is actually Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman which are given to academics for their contributions. The awards are handed over by the President of India on the Independence Day. Bringtar (talk) 18:42, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

    • That is also a political award, which runs into issues at WP:NPROF#Specific criteria notes. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

• Comment - Some awards available in English.

Sathiya ratna shiromani awards Times of India The Tribune diprpunjab.gov.in

President's Certificate of Honour - 2018 (as Prof. (Dr.) Ved Prakash Upadhyaya) sanskrit.nic.in ministry of education, India pib.gov.in DSP2092^talk 06:29, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete - Given the content and praise in the keep assertions above, I was expecting to find at least one gold-standard newspaper profile of this person that would meet the criteria laid out at WP:GNG. But... I'm not. The best source I've seen from the analysis at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Kalki Avatar and Muhammad is this work, but that's the only one. To WP:NPROF then. Supporters are pointing to a Rashtrapati Award, but per above it's a political award (not academic) and there's debate over whether they actually received it. Other awards named appear to be minor if compared to those listed at NPROF. I'm also not seeing anyone argue in favor of any of the other seven bullet points outlined there. We have an intentionally low bar for articles about academics, but as it stands I don't see how this qualifies. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 20:30, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

** see here in pages 2, 3 and 26. He got president's certificalte of honour award and also 5 lakh rupees with it. The article of the president's certificalte of honour says: "The awards of Certificate of Honour and Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman are Indian Presidential honours which are conferred on academics by the President of India once a year on the Indian Independence Day, celebrated on 15 August; in recognition of their substantial contribution in the various fields of languages including Arabic, Kannada, Sanskrit, Malayalam, Oriya, Pali, Persian, Prakrit and the Telugu language. The awards come under the umbrella of the language division of the Ministry of Education's Department of Higher Education. ... The Certificate of Honour-i is awarded to selected Indian scholars having an age of 60 years or above. It honour includes a certificate, a memento and one time cash of five hundred thousand Indian rupees. The Certificate of Honour-ii is awarded to selected scholars Overseas Indians and foreigners of non-Indian origin, who aged 60 years or above. The award constitutes a certificate, a memento and one time cash of five hundred thousand Indian rupees." And you can check the references in this deleted version of the article in Bharatpidea. See here in Daily Jang and here in Urdu Point by google translate, and here in English in The Nation (Pakistan) and here in Turkish in OdaTV, the book has been discussed there broadly.Also there is media coverage of being converted to muslim by reading this book. 202.134.10.141 (talk) 21:35, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

• • • 202.134, what we need from you is not quotes or lengthy extended arguments about how to classify a different politically given award. Upadhyay isn't even mentioned in The Nation or OdaTV links. Can you link to three sources that are primarily about Upadhyay themselves and meet the criteria laid out at WP:GNG? Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 02:03, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

References

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:50, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

• Comment Just to inform anyone interested, I've just removed the entire Career section as a copyvio. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 22:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

  Looking back the original diff has copyvio from two different sources, [2] and [3]. I'm not sure of what to do here. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested ∆transmissions∆ °co-ords° 22:51, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

  @ActivelyDisinterested If it's a copyvio of multiple sources, use the copyvio revdel template with multiple url parameters (url, url2, url3, etc.) —Alalch E. 23:50, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

• Keep - Not only a well known figure who is often quoted in mainstream media with in-depth coverage, but also a notable scholar and receipient of the President Award national level Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman[4] by the President of India. This award is not owned by some random private organnizations or given to random people. IMO, it is a bad faith nomination from AKG as he has a history of doing it. Bringtar (talk) 08:41, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

  Warned you for personal attacks on your talk page. Nearly everyone here agrees that this person is not notable thus your empty claims about notability are senseless. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 17:53, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

  How irony that you are engaging in personal attacks yet lecturing me on it. Comment on the content and not on the contributor, this applies to you too. I do not see how your claim. Nearly everyone here agrees that this person is not notable fits here specially because the rationale matter, !vote count doesn't. Bringtar (talk) 07:50, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

  Falsely accusing another person of "personal attacks" is also personal attacks. You claims about notability are still senseless because you have failed to substantiate them. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 08:18, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

  I retracted my comments on you and apologies if it hurts you since it was not intended. I expect a mutual understanding. Thank you for what you do here. Bringtar (talk) 18:37, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

  "Obviously notable" doesnt work when they fail to meet the criteria. President award was debunked just above, did you even go through the discussion? Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 10:00, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

  @CapnJackSp Thank you for bringing clarity but how do you concluded that the award he received has not noteworthy? Bringtar (talk) 18:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

  Because its not prestigious. Its given out to dozens of people every year, and the pool is only for people older than 60. Even non notable people can win it. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 03:48, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete - Still fails to meet any notability criteria despite long discussion above. Georgethedragonslayer (talk) 02:41, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

  Which notability criteria? The person does meet WP:NACADEMIC and WP:GNG so which criteria you are referring? Bringtar (talk) 07:52, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

  They fail both, you are just citing guidelines without supporting them. Presidential award is an incorrect report from two obscure papers ; He won some random award that is handed out in dozens. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 10:00, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

  @CapnJackSp I dig a bit more and he was awarded with the Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman[5] in recognition of his works which satisfies criteria #2 of WP:NACADEMIC. Bringtar (talk) 18:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

  That is a political award, which runs into issues at WP:NPROF#Specific criteria notes. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 03:17, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

  And its not very prestigious either. Certainly not of national note. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 03:49, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

  @Ed, can you please be more specific about what you meant by "political award"? I am not sure how you concluded it as a political award when it is only given to academics so I want to understand it? I think that even if it is a political award then also if it is a notable then it should satisfy GNG. @CapnJackSp, awards itself by nature considered as prestigious, specially an award which has its own Wikipedia article is certainly, notable. When a President of a democratic republic is giving it to specific people on a specific date i.e., indepdence day of the country then do you have any RS to establish the insignificance of it? Bringtar (talk) 18:51, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

  See below. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 20:04, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete. Does not pass Prof or GNG. Xxanthippe (talk) 09:23, 25 August 2023 (UTC).

  A Mahamahopadhyaya as well as an Acharya who has been named as Shastra Chudamani (well versed scholar) and also recived "Sahitya Ratna Padak" and "Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman", doesn't pass GNG!? Bringtar (talk) 18:59, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

  Nope, as explained above. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 20:03, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

  Comment:

  • Mahamahopadhyaya: "is an honorific title given to prestigious scholars by the Government" - awarded by the Haryana state government (see article in Punjab Kesari^[6]
  • Acharya: "In Indian religions and society, an acharya is a preceptor and expert instructor in matters such as religion, or any other subject." ^[7]

  Either satisfies WP:NACADEMIC criterion 5.

  These are in addition to the President's Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman Certificate of Honor which satisfies WP:NACADEMIC criterion 2 (see comment below)

  --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 01:50, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

• Comment from a disinterested editor not otherwise engaged with this topic prior to this and its companion AfD:

See Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman. The Certificate of Honour is a Presidential award given annually to a few scholars for career achievement. Only a handful are awarded in Sanskrit annually. Some years it’s not awarded. Here is the lede from our article:

• ”The awards of Certificate of Honour and Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman are Indian Presidential honours which are conferred on academics by the President of India once a year on the Indian Independence Day, celebrated on 15 August; in recognition of their substantial contribution in the various fields of languages including Arabic, Kannada, Sanskrit, Malayalam, Oriya, Pali, Persian, Prakrit and the Telugu language.”

Are there higher awards for Sanskrit scholars?

The assertion was made above that this is a political award: what is the reliable source to support that claim?

Our notability guideline for academics, criteria 2 states:

• ”The person has received a highly prestigious academic award or honor at a national or international level.”

By our rules, this person is notable regardless of any fierce animus a pool of editors may have toward him and his book.

—A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 19:33, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Ill answer all your queries. "Handful of people" is far from the truth. When he was being originally credited with the presidents award (Which he didnt win), I went ahead and looked into this.

Only a handful are awarded Not true. Over half a hundred awards are handed out every year, with about three dozen in Sanskrit each year.
"Some years its not awarded" Not true, our article is incomplete but the award is handed out annually.
"Are there higher awards for Sanskrit scholars?" Yes, the actual Notable, National awards known as the Jnanapith Award and Sahitya Akademi Award. These I remember off the top of my head, but quite sure there's more.

Therefore, by our rules, this person is non notable regardless of any fierce affinity a pool of editors may have toward him and his book. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 20:13, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

According to the The Hindu, 23 awards were given across all languages in 2009 for example. The actual numbers are higher in subsequent years: 2019: 16, 2018: 15, 2017: 15

More than a "handful", less than "several dozen" in recent years.

I don't see awards for 2022; I seem to recall there was some dispute about missing awards but, honestly, I may be thinking of another award. There may have been awards and I couldn't find them.

The Sahitya Akademi Award award is for "writers of the most outstanding books of literary merit". It is not an award for scholarship.

The Jnanpith Award is "the highest Indian literary award presented annually by the Bharatiya Jnanpith to an author for their 'outstanding contribution towards literature'". It is not an award for scholarship

I am sure there are other actual awards for Sanskrit scholarship -- like China or the United States, India is a huge country. One or more might even be more prestigious. Nevertheless, this is a national award and it is awarded by the President of India, not some minion. That is sufficient for the purpose of notability.

Not much of a cohesive pool in favor of keeping this article - mostly miscellaneous editors wandering by like I did. Most of us are not especially fierce, either.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 21:05, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Punjab's Sahitya Ratna awards were delayed several years, not the national Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman Certificates of Honor - my mistake. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 21:26, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Summing up - Ved Prakash Upadhyay meets WP:NACADEMIC 3 different ways as discussed above:

1. Presidential Certificate of Honour (Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman)- criterion 2
2. Mahamahopadhyaya - criterion 5 (distinguished professor equivalent)
3. Acharya - criterion 5 (distinguished professor equivalent)

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 01:56, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

You are drawing the conclusion on debunked info, Bardrayan reward doesnt clear #2, and those two titles dont clear #5.

Acharya clearing #5, lmao. Acharya literally means teacher, and if you think thats the standard for notability on wiki, I dont think a constructive discussion is possible. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 06:38, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

You're confusing Acharya with teacher because An acharya is a highly learned person with a title affixed to the names of learned subject. Can you please share some RS to support your claims about the award in question? Do you think Maharshi Badrayan Vyas Samman is a non-notable award? If yes then why it is in Wikipedia? Bringtar (talk) 07:59, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

I dont think you know sanskrit. Acharya literally means teacher, and you are simply quoting Wikipedia. Remember, Wikipedia is not a RS.

FOr your edification, the title of "Acharya" in Sanskrit nowadays is a PG degree, again, not a sign of notability.

And criteria #2 is not for any random award that passes GNG, it is only for "highly prestigious" awards. And no, over half a hundred awards a year handed out like candies is not "highly prestigious". Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 09:05, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is certainly not a RS but what I quoted is supported by a RS. I am still waiting for at least one single RS to support your claim that this award is insignificant. A basic instinct can tell that a President of a country does not handed out random awards unless it is prestigious. Specially, the award itself has a Wikipedia entry which proves its notability. Random awards do not get an article on Wikipedia or does it?

This person is not only a lerned academic but also served as a Professor in a Govt. institute named, Panjab University. I have seen even less notable people on Wikipedia. If the strictiest rules of notability are applied then it still meets WP:GNG. Bringtar (talk) 11:08, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

WP:OSE, WP:ONUS. Thats all. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 04:50, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Note for closer - Kindly weigh arguments on merit, a few of the ardent supporters of "Keep" keep using WP:IDHT to maintain that he is notable. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 09:06, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

• Comment - The person has been the subject of multiple independent reliable sources[8][9], has own several significant awards[10][[11], conferred several scholarly titles[12][13], served various high positions in Govt. education institutes[14][15]. If these are still not enough to establish notability then we have a systematic bias in applying the criteris. Bringtar (talk) 11:19, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

  Like I said, WP:IDHT. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 06:40, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Deloar Akram (Talk • Contribute) 21:10, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Keep He's called an expert on scriptures in Gbooks, more than a few times. Seems ok to me. Oaktree b (talk) 22:38, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

• Delete Despite vague handwaves, there is absolclearly no cation that subject meets WP:GNG or WP:NACADEMIC. Azuredivay (talk) 17:19, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.