Talk:India

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 July 2023 Official Language

Change official langauges from Hindi and English to Hindi and English and all the other 22 langauges listed in the 8thnschedule of Indian Constitution. Hindi and English is the official language of Union only. For the whole country all the languages of rhe 8th schedule and English is official. Roaly3 (talk) 07:38, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done Eighth schedule languages are not listed as official in the constitution, and are already listed under "Recognised Languages" WelpThatWorked (talk) 17:34, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Not even Hindi and English is listed as the official language of the country in the Indian constitution. The Indian constitution says that Hindi in devanagri script and English is the official language of the "union" and authorizes the states to adopt as official language either English or any or multiple languages listed in the 8th schedule. All the languages in the 8th schedule thus can be technically considered as official language of Indian Republic, Union isn't the only component of the nation, States are also intrinsic part of the national polity, state legislatures elect representatives to the parliament for instance. As far the recognised languages are concerned, it is not limited to the 8th schedule languages, Puducherry for example recognises French language which doesn't have a mention in the constitution. Roaly (talk) 16:15, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. CMD (talk) 14:48, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

There is already consensus for this alteration. Reffering you to the main article in wiki on the topic of Languages of India.Languages of India Roaly (talk) 15:41, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done. I looked at that article, and it says, among other things:

Article 343 of the Constitution of India stated that the official language of the Union is Hindi in Devanagari script, with official use of English to continue for 15 years from 1947. Later, a constitutional amendment, The Official Languages Act, 1963, allowed for the continuation of English alongside Hindi in the Indian government indefinitely until legislation decides to change it.[2] The form of numerals to be used for the official purposes of the Union are "the international form of Indian numerals",[13][14] which are referred to as Arabic numerals in most English-speaking countries.[1] Despite the misconceptions, Hindi is not the national language of India; the Constitution of India does not give any language the status of national language. The Eighth Schedule of the Indian Constitution lists 22 languages,[17] which have been referred to as scheduled languages and given recognition, status and official encouragement. In addition, the Government of India has awarded the distinction of classical language to Kannada, Malayalam, Odia, Sanskrit, Tamil and Telugu. Classical language status is given to languages which have a rich heritage and independent nature.

That seems pretty clear to me. Two "official languages", no "national language", and 22 "scheduled languages". – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:05, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Two official langauges of the "Union" is what is written in the Wikipedia article on this topic not Two official langauge of the nation. Kindly provide refferences to the two official language of nation claim.

The 22 scheduled languages which also includes Hindi and English which is recognised as official subsidiary language of union are the official languages of India. Roaly3 (talk) 04:53, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: you've been asked to establish consensus before using the edit extend-protected template. Please do so before using the template again. M.Bitton (talk) 14:24, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Consensus has been established and is reflected in this article Languages of India which neatly explains which all are the official languages of India. Kindly dont repeat this endless request towards me to establish consensus. Roaly (talk) 15:43, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. CMD (talk) 04:27, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Kindly explain what is this? I have already established consensus. Roaly3 (talk) 15:12, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

@Roaly3, we don't use other Wikipedia articles as sources or as proof of consensus. You need to persuade the editors here on this talk page, and for that you need a reliable source supporting your change.

FWIW re: the other article: It looks to my untutored eyes that many of the other languages are actually official languages of a particular state rather than of India? If you look in the infobox here, you'll see an expandable section that does list all of those. Valereee (talk) 15:35, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Official Langauges of India

Change official languages from Hindi and English to Hindi and English and all the other 22 languages listed in the 8th schedule of Indian Constitution.

This change was requested several days back and despite providing multiple sources such as Constitution of India, and even a Wikipedia main article Languages of India, the requested edit has not been made. To make it worse someone is changing the request to answered despite there being no response. Roaly (talk) 04:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Refer to Talk:India#Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2023 for the same. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 20:58, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 August 2023

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Please Change "Official Langauges Hindi and English" to "Official Languages: English and Eighth Schedule". Languages of India Roaly3 (talk) 10:24, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. What is all the languages in the 8th schedule? Lightoil (talk) 10:36, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Apologies for the error. I have corrected my edit request. Please check. Roaly3 (talk) 15:09, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lightoil (talk) 03:29, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

The reliable sources I have included is the main article in wiki that is Languages of India, further articles that you can use as proof includes these [1]https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/sc-judge-calls-hindi-national-language-official-languages-act-says-otherwise-180653

[2]https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/for-centre-not-supreme-court-to-recognise-a-language-as-official-language/article67104735.ece Roaly (talk) 04:18, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

No reply to this. Predictably at this point. Roaly3 (talk) 05:39, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

@Roaly3: Read WP:ONUS to understand the reason for rejection. Also please go through the entire discussion thread once again to understand the reason for denying your request. Heads up, this discussion that you are continuing is edging into disruption, for which you've been warned. So please note that. Please go for WP:RFC for any further discussion on this topic. Thanks and happy editing. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 06:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

 Already done The required changes are already made, stating how the languages included in the Eight Schedule are official languages in individual state level. At national level, only English and Hindi are recognised as official languages. Please go through the article, as well as the infobox clearly before submitting another edit request. Thanks. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 06:53, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

No that is technically incorrect. Even at the "National Level" also all 22 Languages listed in the 8th schedule are Official. That is the reason why Indian National Rupee Currency Bill/Notes features the sum or amount mentioned in all these languages. You are again mistaking "Union" with National, Hindi and English are the only two official language of the "Union", not the Nation or National. Roaly (talk) 15:07, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

From 26 January 1950, Hindi has been the official language of the Union, i.e. the federal government, and English, the associate official language. The official language of India is the official language of the union. It is widely documented in tertiary sources and in what is recognized by international agencies such as the United Nations as well as foreign governments. We have had several RfCs about this over the years.

I should warn that I'm seeing edits being snuck in based on the judgment of one person responding to an extended-confirmed-protected post. Just because the poster has a reliable looking source or two backing up their proposed change is not reason enough to make the change. Quite often infobox information is the result of a longstanding consensus, and it can't be changed without a discussion. The responding editor is better off saying, "Please open a discussion thread."

This is an old old featured article, soon to be 19 years old. There is good likelihood that pretty much anything you can think of has been thought of before and discussed. That doesn't mean that the article cannot be improved, only that in most instances it is better to examine the talk page archives first. Perhaps we don't do a good enough job with the FAQ up top, which may warrant a revision. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 04:42, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

As for Hindi, I found this description of B. Mallikarjun in an article in Language in India, November 2004, from a previous discussion:

Once the Constitution of India came into force on January 26, 1950, the status of Hindi was greatly enhanced. It is Hindi in Devanagari script and the international form of Indian numerals that is the Official language of the Union. Among the Indian languages, Hindi is the most highly empowered language which constitutionally/legally has multiple statuses – an official language of the Union; the official language of 13 states and union territories; the major regional language in 9 states where it is a majority language and an important minority language in 18 states and union territories. Also, it is a language of deliberations of the Parliament of India and state legislatures in the states in which it is recognized as an official language. Apart from this, the Constitution also provides that, with mutual consent, any two states or the states and the Union can use it as a language for their inter-communication. It is the majority language of the country and also a Scheduled Language since it is in the VIIIth Schedule of the Constitution. It is the only language about whose development the Constitution has given direction, and hence it has the constitutional right for development.

In other words, for better or worse, no other language has quite the constitutional status in India as Hindi. Still, Hindi is not the National Language, although much effort was made toward that status during the framing of the Indian constitution and has thereafter. See Hindi Day. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 05:40, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I am honestly dissapointed with this reply.

India has 23 official languages, they are English and all the langauges mentioned in the 8th schedule of the constitution. All the constitutionally ordained Governments in India use one or more of the languages among this 23 as their official langauges. The Official Langauges of India isn't the Official Langauge of the Union, nowhere is it said so in our Constitution that it is so the case.

The infobox says that English and Hindi are the official languages, and that rest of the languages of the 8th schedule are recognised state languages which is wrong. I have provided proof and substantiation that shows that all the 8th schedule languages are official. The Union means only the Union Govt, it is not to be confused with the Indian Nation or Republic. Roaly3 (talk) 07:11, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

I would urge you to give me a better reply than this. Telling me that anything I can think of is probably already discussed is insulting to say the least. I requested one edit which I could have made myself but isn't allowed to, I have defended that request repeatedly with proof and substantiation and have reached the point that not even a single proof to the counter has been furnished. Please just give one invalidatable proof that shows that Malayalam and Tamil and Kannada and Bengali aren't official languages in India. Hindi isn't an official language in Kerala state. Speaking Hindi in the assembly is infact banned. All the state of Kerala Govt communication must happen in Malayalam and English and use of Hindi is next to none existent unless there is a special objective. So if Hindi is the official language in country how does this scenario arise?

Hindi is the official language of the Union Govt. Malayalam is the official language of one of the State Governments in addition to the official language of one of the UT. Both Union and State are part of the larger component of the Government in India and constitutionally recognised intrinsic part of the polity and state. Union Govt doesn't equal country. Roaly3 (talk) 07:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

State level and 8th schedule languages, including Malayalam, are already included in the infobox. Each state also has their own article and infobox covering their specific situations in more detail. The details in the infobox and article here are by necessity those relating to the whole country. CMD (talk) 07:36, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Roaly3: We cannot interpret the Constitution of India on first principles. Only sources can, both WP:TERTIARY for determining due weight and WP:SCHOLARSHIP for reliability. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:32, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

@Roaly3: Please read Talk:India/Archive_12#Secondary_sources from July 2007 and the following threads in Archive 13 for the deliberations that led to the current version of the official languages in the info box. If you are still dissatisfied you may begin an RfC on the phrasing you prefer. But arguing here, however eloquently, has no meaning on WP. We can effect change only through sources. This point is all the more salient for phrasing that has been in this much viewed FA for 16 years. All the best. I am traveling until August 16 and mostly unavailable. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:10, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

what is an rfc on phrasing? And which is the other page or space where I can place this edit request. I thought this was the page where such requests are made. Roaly3 (talk) 13:39, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

 Note: Go through WP:RFCOPEN for further details. Drop by Voyager 2 talk page for an example of asking for consensus to change the phrasing according to your need. And for the nth number of time, kindly understand that this page is an FA, and is one of the oldest of the sort with a lot of traffic. Any major change in such an article need a very clear consensus and agreement from the editors. As you have been answered multiple times by various users, latest by Fowler&Fowler, that by arguing here, however eloquently, will not change anything, nor changing the edit request template from yes to no. You being adamant on getting it done out of this edit request will not work, be it how many times you reopen the request. So kindly do the RfC and get the consensus. I'm closing the request for now and marking it as answered. Start a new section for another edit request. Good luck and happy editing. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 14:04, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

I am new here and just following the instruction. Instruction is that I change answered from yes to no since my request was neither accepted nor did i get a reply that told me why my request cannot be taken up. It was a fair request that I laced with facts and sources. Roaly (talk) 16:19, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

@Roaly and Roaly3: I applaud your commitment to following instructions. Here's some more friendly advice/instructions:

• Don't your multiple accounts for editing. See WP:SOCK for more details.
• As you've been warned already in your talk page, opening and reopening multiple edit requests may constitute as disruptive editing, and can result in losing editing privileges. So consider this as a level 2 warning too.
• I've invited you to WP:Teahouse, a forum for new editors. You may drop by and learn how to kick off editing in Wikipedia.
• Kindly go through the entire thread of discussion to see why your edit request was declined, multiple times, by multiple editors. It's nothing personal.
• Finally, once again, go through WP:RFC to know more about the procedure and how to start one.

Thanks and happy editing. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 17:32, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

I am going to report you for being unethical and personally attacking me despite my constant effort at being professional and consistent. I have two accounts, one is open in my phone and another in my PC, I didn't realise they are different accounts but I most certainly didn't use them to push through any changes or edits, I didn't abuse the system. Roaly3 (talk) 05:27, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Data Update

there is new data on poverty at https://pip.worldbank.org/country-profiles/IND we should update the article at least with that data and mention the main article on poverty in india via template WikiYeti (talk) 10:58, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

socio-economic challenges

the gini coefficient should be mentioned in the very section. the tensions between muslim and hindu populations should be mentioned as well. WikiYeti (talk) 11:01, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Missing Hindi ISO

The official name ISO has "Bhārat Gaṇarājya" but not "भारत गणराज्य" as is the case for most nations, which mention the original. 122.173.28.14 (talk) 13:08, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

even Bharat Ganarajya is not the official name of the country in most languages. The whole thing should be removed. Roaly3 (talk) 06:51, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

https://www.indiatoday.in/law-today/story/india-or-bharat-renaming-constitution-article-1-supreme-court-2431213-2023-09-05

Article 1 of the Constitution states that “India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.” It's crucial to emphasise that Article 1 of the Constitution recognises both 'India' and 'Bharat' as official names for the country.

Should add Bharat alongside India as official name in constitution is India as well as Bharat. Revdevil (talk) 16:20, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Military as a new section

Wikipedia pages of states of Pakistan and China do have "Military" as a seperate section in it. With India (bounded by these two nuclear states in its northern borders) having the worlds second largest standing army, an Airforce ranking 4th in "Global Firepower Index", a CBG operating navy, significant amount and range of missile systems, ASAT technology, having IRBM's, SLBM's and ICBM and the only non-veto state operating nuclear ballistic submarine(s). Above all it has over 80 billion USD spend in defense budget, one of the highest in the world, shouldn't have a similar and dedicated section in this page? Editor8220 (talk) 14:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Adding mention of Ultimate Kho Kho

In the India#Sports and recreation section, I want to change the following sentence "Other professional leagues include the Indian Super League (football) and the Pro Kabaddi league." to this: "Other professional leagues include the Indian Super League (football), the Pro Kabaddi League, and Ultimate Kho Kho."

I believe this change is justified, as Ultimate Kho Kho is now the third most-watched non-cricket league in India (estimated to have over 100 million viewers), and it represents an indigenous sport of India, as opposed to a British-origin sport. Also, most likely it will grow in years to come (2022 was its first season), so that will further strengthen the case for it be in the article.

Sources: [3], [4] GreekApple123 (talk) 00:41, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Adding the information of Srirangam Ranaganathaswamy temple - Worlds largest functioning temple

There are no Mentions or images of the Srirangam Ranganathaswamy temple in this article which is an injustice to the Country India. It is considered as one of the oldest temples of India . The temple is often portrayed as the Worlds largest functioning temple. It is also the biggest temple present in India located in Tamil Nadu. The temple is so Very important to the Indians, Vishnavites and explains the glory of India. The temple is rich in culture and history, Which requires a part in this article. the temple has 850+ inscriptions and 600+ are present on the walls of the temple. It has mentions in the Ramayana. it is also being mentioned in the Sangam literature of Tamil language and is considered 1st among the 108 Divya Desams . Kambar is a 12th-century Tamil poet who composed the Kamba Ramayanam, a work inspired from the epic, Valmiki Ramayana. He is believed to have come to the temple to get the approval of his work from scholars. The Jain scholar Tirunarungundam honoured the work and it resulted in Tamil and Sanskrit scholars approving the work. Beyond the ancient textual history, archaeological evidence such as inscriptions refer to this temple, and these stone inscriptions are from late 1st CE to 1st BCE.. The temple won the UNESCO Asia Pacific Award of Merit for cultural heritage conservation in the year 2017. It is the first temple from Tamil Nadu to grab this prestigious honour from the UNESCO. The temple occupies an area of 155 acres (63 ha) with 81 shrines, 21 towers, 39 pavilions, and many water tanks integrated into the complex making it the world's largest functioning Hindu temple. The temple town is a significant archaeological and epigraphical site, providing a historic window into the early and mid medieval South Indian society and culture. Numerous inscriptions suggest that this Hindu temple served not only as a spiritual center, but also a major economic and charitable institution that operated education and hospital facilities, ran a free kitchen, and financed regional infrastructure projects from the gifts and donations it received. Hence, i would like to add information of the temple. Narayanan Iyengar (talk) 15:50, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 16:41, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 September 2023

India should be named as a Bharat and soon it will be announced officially Kp144 (talk) 17:12, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 17:19, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Name change reports

Apparently, India's CNBC reports that the government is preparing to change the name of the country to 'Bharat'. We should wait for a more credible source, though. MiasmaEternal☎ 09:12, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

One has to be an incredibly insecure political party to rename the country all because the opposition alliance has come up with an acronym that sounds like it. (self-striking) In any case, if indeed they have done this (a big if), the name on wikipedia will not change—only the 'Republic of India' in the first sentence and the infobox may be changed to whatever XYZ they’ve decided to change the official name to. Nowhere else. UnpetitproleX (talk) 11:11, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Also a name change such as this would require a constitutional amendment, something which the BJP lacks the required strength in the parliament and state assemblies to do. But given that all this speculation comes merely on the basis of G20 invites using 'Republic of Bharat' instead of 'Republic of India', it isn’t unlikely that it turns out to be just that, sensational speculation. UnpetitproleX (talk) 11:33, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

We'll change it on the 18th if the name is changed. Solblaze (talk) 11:19, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: Per WP:COMMONNAME, WP:TITLE and WP:OFFICIALNAMES, the article title will remain India nevertheless.

Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria.

We should just buckle up for multiple move requests if such a thing happens. Otherwise, nothing is going to change in the article. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 13:33, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Till then we should edit the name to Republic of India (Bharat) as In official Indian constitution it's already mentioned two names, one India and other Bharat. There is no doubt in this. It is just that it is not widely used internationally but it's official. I can see an ISO tag but it should be "Republic of India (Bharat)" or "Republic of India or Bharat" as Bharat is not just devnagari translation of India. It is other name. If you want ISO, it should be included after the English "Bharat" which should be placed at level equivalent to name India. Revdevil (talk) 16:04, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Article 1 of the Constitution states that “India, that is Bharat, shall be a Union of States.” It's crucial to emphasise that Article 1 of the Constitution recognises both 'India' and 'Bharat' as official names for the country. Got this from constitution pdf.

Also mention in this source:

https://www.indiatoday.in/law-today/story/india-or-bharat-renaming-constitution-article-1-supreme-court-2431213-2023-09-05

Please add 2 names for now as officially the Constitution of India already has 2 names, India and Bharat. Revdevil (talk) 16:14, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

India changing it's name?

I've seen several news reports saying that India is changing its official name from the Republic of India to the Republic of Bharat, is this true? J.A. (talk) 15:25, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't think so, they just showed "President of Bharat" to a G20 meeting. So probably not MrJaydenfire (talk) 16:55, 5 September 2023 (UTC)