Talk:Indian English

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2020 and 22 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Malnarula.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Source of the anomalies

Does anyone have any information on where the "anomalies" in Indian English grammars listed (the use of the progressive in static verbs, for example) came from? Did they develop somewhat arbitrarily simply as language drift, or do they mirror grammatical forms in other (non-English) Indian language and were imported from there into English? --Delirium 20:41, May 23, 2004 (UTC)

Grammar Structure in Hindi differs from English. It's kinda like French. For instance, when I was learning French, I would formulate a sentence in English(since English is my strongest language), and then convert it to French (or vice-versa). This often had disastrous effects. Take the phrase Je Vous Remercie, which literally translates as I You Thank. If "I You Thank" is not considered French English, I don't see why similar structural mistakes are included in Indian English. More often than not, these "anomalies" are actually just bad English spoken by non-native speakers of the language. I hypothesize mostly from personal experience, but I intend to get some professional views on this phenomenon soon.--LuciferBlack 05:06, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)

Usages are accepted in a dialect if enough people communicate with them and accept them. If there were a community of people who were used to saying "I you thank," that would be considered part of the dialect. If we're accepting that Indian English is a dialect that has grown separately from British English and American English, then there are going to be anomalies in grammar. Thirdreel 13:53, 16 Aug 2004 ()

Include canonical phrases / words

WRT the back and forth edits between LSofS and Rj, I have a suggestion to make. Why don't you just include canonical phrases/ words that have been used in advertisements, other media, etc.,?

I disagree with LSofS on the one letter difference- in fact saloon is a very interesting word and is not similar to the colour/ color conventions or other conventions such as s/z or c/s that are standardised in many words. I was not aware of the salon/ saloon connection - maybe there is an interesting etymology to it too, it is worthy enough to be included! In daily life in India, at least in Tamilnadu, in every small town and maybe even in village, a saloon refers to a "barber shop" frequented only by "gents"(that's another Indianism) KRS 18:17, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well, unfortunately, Rj misinformed regarding saloon as referring to salon. If it means what you're talking about, then it has a well-established Euro-American precident in "saloon," a congregatory hall, frequently for men, in which drinks and such would be served (see cowbow westerns). Also, "gents" is not an Indianism, in the sense that it was not coined by Indians. It's a known contraction all over the world. --LordSuryaofShropshire 18:40, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

Salon is not only misspelt in Tamil Nadu, it is also misspelt in Kerala and Bangalore (I have witnessed that). Only very few women salon, correctly spelt that. A google search suggests [1], the word is misspelt even in Jaipur, Mumbai and many other places in India. --Rrjanbiah 11:37, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It's not misspelt, we've already determined this. It is referring to the Euro-American saloon. Look up a dictionary.--LordSuryaofShropshire 16:17, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Saloon http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.0?stage=1&word=saloon 1. barroom, bar, saloon, ginmill, taproom -- (a room or establishment where alcoholic drinks are served over a counter; "he drowned his sorrows in whiskey at the bar") 2. public house, pub, saloon, pothouse, gin mill, taphouse -- (tavern consisting of a building with a bar and public rooms; often provides light meals)

Salon http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.0?stage=1&word=salon 1. salon -- (gallery where works of art can be displayed) 2. salon, beauty salon, beauty parlor, beauty parlour, beauty shop -- (a shop where hairdressers and beauticians work) 3. salon -- (elegant sitting room where guests are received)

In Indian English, Saloon means beauty salon (Salon) [2]

--Rrjanbiah 05:15, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree with you Rrjanbiah, I also wanted to cite references- saloon in the Western context has no relation to saloon in the Indian context, the Indian context saloon has to be the Western context salon KRS 06:28, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I think, the right place to discuss about this issue is a.e.u. I have some doubts in English especially "How do you do?" and "Saloon"; I'll post there sometimes later (as I'm bit busy now) and will update here. --Rrjanbiah 07:59, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The term "co-brother"

The term "co-brother" is not understood even by most of the Indians. It cannot be included in Indian English. Telugu people use the word "co-brother-in-law" instead of it. Even the use of the term "co-brother-in-law" is incorrect method while translating Telugu words to English. In Telugu, sons-in-law of a common father-in-law are called as todallullu. In Telugu, the word todalludu means companion of son-in-law. It is incorrect to use those words such as co-brother and co-brother-in-law while translating Telugu kinship terms to English.

Differences in the English Language Throughout Asia

Cell phone or handphone? SMS or text? I've posted a brief intro about the differences in terms used for every day things in Asia in my blog at www.ux.com.sg. I would like to expand on the list and to do that I will need contributions from as many people as possible. Please do help me out by sharing your valuable insights. Thank you :)

Request Indian English assistance

Greetings,

I am a published author working on my second novel. There is a brief scene featuring a character speaking English with an Indian accent. I have been using the wikipedia entry on "Indian English" to help me write this section phonetically and idiomatically, but i'm sure I am making numerous naive and inaccurate representations. Would the author of that entry or anyone else on this board be willing to take a look at the short section and provide feedback? It's about 6 sentences long.

Thank you for your time. You can reach me at juxtapozbliss@yahoo.com.

Unique phrases again

I've just removed the following. While in England, it may not be common to use place names as an addendum to university names, it is quite common in the U.S. and Australia (perhaps because of sheer size of the countries, branch campuses develop). Anyway if anyone has a problem w/ this, the original text is here.

• "Placenames appended as part of a formal organisation name: Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad instead of Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad; possibly because a similar Indian Institute of Management is probably in another location and to differentiate between these, a location name has to be added, unlike in the case of University of Manchester or Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This appears to be common usage."

Morphology and syntax

The section with this heading is presently (late 2017) empty. Surely somebody has some reliable information!

OR: My own observations include the frequent omission of the definite article the by Indian-English speakers and writers, where it would be mandatory in Australia, the UK and the US. For example, I've recently been reading Wikipedia articles on Jainism, many of which show this tendency. However, it is only a tendency, and neither omission nor inclusion of the article is certain. Occasionally, the indefinite articles a and an are also affected similarly.

Does anybody have published information about this usage to confirm (or otherwise) these impressions? Or about any other consistent structural differences between Indian and other Englishes? yoyo (talk) 17:02, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

Hello yoyo, like you, I am confused by tags that entreat me to use Indian English in certain articles. Sure, there is different pronunciation. The vocabulary may differ slightly from American English. I see no point in adding unnecessary modifying clauses, overusing gerunds. or to mix and match lakhs and crores and inconsistent grouping of digits with SI standard numbers. Tell me the rules for written Indian English and I'll comply. Rhadow (talk) 09:13, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Given I'm building a spelling and grammar checker for Wikipedia, I'm curious about the standard Indian English dialect too. So far the opinions I can find on the topic of articles in Indian English is that a lot of people are simply using them incorrectly because they are not present in Hindi and perhaps other Indian languages, and hardly anyone in India has English as a first language. If true, I think it's not dissimilar to what happens with English spoken and written in the Netherlands. Almost everyone there speaks English, but even on professional web sites you'll see errors much more frequently than on say, British sites. And a lot of them are clearly dragging some things over from Dutch, like weird vocabulary choices or making lots of new compound words. That said, if most Indian English speakers don't consider adding or dropping "a" or "the" to be an error, and if people generally ignore the distinction, we might count that as a dialect difference. It does seem like in professional prose that articles are almost always used as they would be in British English. For the purposes of Wikipedia, perhaps we can simply assume that prose that follows British grammar is considered correct Indian English (but perhaps with slight vocabulary differences), even if the reverse might not be true? It's not necessarily a bad thing to use the language in a more restricted way that looks correct to multiple countries, just to improve clarity for more people. Certainly I try to do that when dealing with American vs. British differences. -- Beland (talk) 06:56, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

@Beland:, sounds like a good plan to me — just use articles as one would elsewhere, even if the text one is editing has dropped a few. yoyo (talk) 04:08, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Additional Phrases Unique to Indian-English

• clubbing-together (consolidating, grouping)
• cousin-brother (male cousin)
• cousin-sister (female cousin)
• today morning (this morning)
• the needful ("necessary, "what's needed" - uncommon in Am. Eng. I had never heard in 50+ yrs as native speaker) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChinaChuck (talk • contribs) 17:34, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

My Indian-born doctor (GP) in Australia always asks specialists, in his referral letters, to "please do the needful". yoyo (talk) 04:16, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Pedestrian overpass

When I encounter an article with {{Use Indian English}}, should I use the term "over bridge," "foot over bridge," "footover bridge," or what? Rhadow (talk) 16:20, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Baton charge

When I encounter an article with {{Use Indian English}}, should I use the term "lathicharge," "lathi-charge," "lathi charge," or what? Rhadow (talk) 11:57, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

I've seen "lathi-charge" in an Indian news article. Also, note that the commas in Rhadow's list should appear outside the double quotes in British, Australian and Indian English; thus: "lathicharge", "lathi-charge", "lathi charge", or what? (The last comma in a list is optional). yoyo (talk) 04:16, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Official language of India

@Anonymousboii: Next time you get the urge to introduce unidiomatic constructions such as "co-mandated," please do yourself the favor of reading Talk:India/Archive_12#Secondary_sources:, especially Saravask's reduction to 15 of my sources. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:35, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

With all due respect, I , apologize for using that word, I didn’t realize it was Italian for something else. -- friendlyneighborhoodanon 19:10, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Number of English speaking people in India

The article says:

Native speakers	250,000 (2022) L2 speakers: 200 million L3 speakers: 46 million 246 million total speakers (2022)

There are three sources given for 250,000 native speakers - all of them give an error.

Furthermore the article says there are 200 million second language speakers in India with no source given. The census of 2011 gives 83 million people for English as a second language (see https://www.livemint.com/news/india/in-india-who-speaks-in-english-and-where-1557814101428.html , but we can also take the census report itself).

I suggest we change to that number, if we do not find a reliable source for higher numbers. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 15:57, 12 September 2023 (UTC)