Talk:Ketchup

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Etymology

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Ketchup was a good article, but it was removed from the list as it no longer met the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.
Review: January 12, 2006. (Reviewed version).

Untitled

What happened to the picture of the sauce with the face in it? That was dead good, that. Bring back the face!

Tomato Sauce vs Ketchup?

Everyone knows that American Ketchup, tastes nothing like Tomato Sauce from other countries. Ketchup is a mix of sugar and possibly some tomato-flavoured water and corn-flour thickener. Why does Tomato Sauce link to this page, when the two are not even remotely similar? ZL3XD (talk) 08:49, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In most English speaking countries “tomato sauce” when used refers to the same condiment as Ketchup. There’s no issue here, imho. 2A00:23C4:3E08:4000:CD9F:DBF1:3CA4:8A72 (talk) 14:02, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.google.com/search?q=tomato+sauce+vs+ketchup+australia&rlz=1C1RXQR_en-GBAU1000AU1000&oq=tomato+sauce+vs&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0i512l9.6099j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 They're not the same thing in Australia, they're two different products with different recipes. https://www.steric.com.au/news/the-difference-between-tomato-ketchup-and-tomato-sauce/#:~:text=In%20the%20Australian%20market%20there,more%20sour%20and%20more%20runny.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/food/whats-the-difference-between-tomato-sauce-and-ketchup/news-story/7f2bffc6826ce6aedc06674ecbf93b14 118.209.201.240 (talk) 09:12, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I second this but can this be explained under ‘Terminology’? It weirdly states that American and Canadian English don’t use ‘tomato sauce’ this way but don’t clarify that the UK and many Commonwealth countries do 2603:7000:2F02:5E65:801B:FD12:9846:11E8 (talk) 03:56, 16 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why is the place of origin the UK?

The ancient origin of the name and various sauces is Asia/China.

The modern thick tomato recipe that has remained mostly unchanged came from Heinz in Pennsylvania.

Why is the UK picked? Is it simply when the sauce entered the west? 73.55.213.196 (talk) 22:20, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kurlansky discusses this in Salt: A World History and how it derived from an Asian anchovie sauce. However, the way "fish sauce" was used in the paragraph makes no sense and needs to be properly introduced and written up. Not just randomly throw in something about fish sauce ("In a 1742 London cookbook, the fish sauce had already taken on a very British flavor, ..." ) without explaining how it relates to mushroom ketchup; that's just sloppy. See: https://littleacregourmet.com/blogs/news/61026885-ketchup-comes-from-where#:~:text=According%20to%20Salt%3A%20A%20World,centuries%20as%20%22love%20apples%22)%3A Further, this isn't even referenced in the mushroom ketchup main article. Again, this article needs help to explain this part of its history. Vargob (talk) 03:38, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it seems like someone decided to erase that Asians invented ketchup and attribute it to white British in the "history" section. Older versions of this article had a much better/accurate/true "history" section. 2601:980:8000:25B2:0:0:0:1007 (talk) 19:59, 15 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You mean white Asians, right? Chinese in China don't consider themselves to have "color", nor do Japanese and Koreans. The facts that China had (a) north-south hegemony over darker-skinned parts of Asia, and (b) written records kept earlier and clearer don't constitute definitive proof that Chinese in China originated the condiment. They could well have encountered it while trading (see Sea_cucumber#Relation_to_humans for example) and then written about it. Martindo (talk) 05:09, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's extremely unclear to me how this screed, which seems to be in response to British being referred to as "white" is relevant to the origins of ketchup.

Can you bring us back there? NdotoYaKenya (talk) 23:05, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The suggestion that ketchup is American and British in origin is absolutely crazy to me; especially considering that the word itself is documented as having a Chinese etymology, and first is recorded being used to describe a Southern Chinese sauce.

This is just completely ahistorical.

Is there anybody here who wishes to defend this state of affairs? NdotoYaKenya (talk) 23:09, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit protected

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please add to the #Terminology section after

“

US states and Mexico.

”

In parts of Canada, ketchup is sometimes referred to as chow-chow.^[1]

-- 67.70.25.80 (talk) 07:02, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: just because someone described the relish chow-chow^[2] as Ketchup doesn't mean that part of the Canadians do. M.Bitton (talk) 13:03, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This guy refers to it a "chunky ketchup" [1] and not relish. While it is fruit ketchup [2] and Quebec ketchup [3]

You can buy it commercially bottled in stores as "ketchup" [4][5][6]

So chunky ketchup is chow-chow, and chow-chow is ketchup. -- 67.70.25.80 (talk) 22:45, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Nat Da Brat. "Green Tomato Ketchup - Quebec-Style Chow-Chow". Food.com. Retrieved 7 July 2023.
^ Lugonja, Valerie (8 Oct 2011). "Green Tomato Chow Chow: Sweet and Sour Relish". A Canadian Foodie. Retrieved 12 Jul 2023.

Not done: You're going to want to take a look at WP:RS. User submitted recipes to food.com are not reliable sources, neither are grocery store listings. Also, "chow chow ketchup" seems to be chow chow flavored ketchup, similar to how jalapeno ketchup is jalapeno flavored ketchup. Cannolis (talk) 23:02, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Terminology citation does not support statement

> The term used for the sauce varies. Ketchup is the dominant term in American English and Canadian English, although catsup is commonly used in some southern US states and Mexico.

Source does not indicate that “catsup” is used commonly anywhere Jakeaglass (talk) 00:44, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In the 1950s, the United States' product produced by Libby's was called "Tomato Catchup," and the product in Europe currently produced by Libby's is also still called 'Catchup'. The article should include this alternate spelling.

172.250.237.36 (talk) 10:43, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Link here as a reference:

https://www.atticpaper.com/proddetail.php?prod=1928-libbys-catchup-ad

172.250.237.36 (talk) 10:45, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Nat Da Brat. "Green Tomato Ketchup - Quebec-Style Chow-Chow". Food.com. Retrieved 7 July 2023.

[Lugonja_2011_t629-2] Lugonja, Valerie (8 Oct 2011). "Green Tomato Chow Chow: Sweet and Sour Relish". A Canadian Foodie. Retrieved 12 Jul 2023.

[1]

[2]