Talk:Western Sahara

Western Sahara was a Geography and places good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

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Is the description of the dispute biased?

I know nothing about this conflict and have no dog in the fight at all. I first learned about it today and was trying to brush up. But certain language in the description of this conflict sounds like it is preferring one side to me. For example: "the remaining 80% of the territory is occupied... by Morocco," obviously assuming that Morocco's presence is an occupation, not legitimate governance. Presumably, Morocco does not think so. Similarly: "Western Sahara is the last African colonial state yet to achieve its independence," clearly presuming that Western Sahara is a state, a claim which (I assume) only one side of the dispute agrees with. This second claim is also rather outlandish in that there are definitely other territories in Africa seeking independence from their current governments.

It just sounds to me, as an outsider, like this article was written by someone who believes in the cause of Western Sahara, and that this has influenced the stance of the article. I'm hoping someone who knows more about it than me might step in and make some adjustments to more neutrally represent the positions of both sides.

Apologies if I am just ignorant and everyone but me knows that this is a perfectly fair and reasonable description of the circumstances.

Is the map outdated?

According to some sources, it seems that Morocco has extended its berm into Mauritanian territory and successfully split the previously contiguous SADR-controlled part into three separate regions.

Link: https://sovereignlimits.com/boundaries/morocco-western-sahara-land 2001:8003:9008:1301:9535:F3C8:6763:D1BC (talk) 01:01, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2022

This edit request to Moroccan Sahara has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please it Moroccan Sahara not western sahara 105.159.180.210 (talk) 08:15, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No and don't do this yourself. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:21, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Also, please provide reliable sources. EnIRtpf09b^{chat with me} 08:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 October 2022

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UN does not consider Morocco as an occupying entity of the Western Sahara. The latter is indeed in the 4th committee but it I was put there by Morocco when Spain was occupying Western Sahara.

Change "while the remaining 80% of the territory is occupied and administered by neighboring Morocco." to "while the remaining 80% of the territory is administered by neighboring Morocco." Neglectos (talk) 12:12, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The General Assembly have called Morocco an occupier multiple times. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:39, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not done You need to provide a source to support the requested change. - wolf 13:57, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Disputed territory" in lead sentence

Should its description as a "disputed territory" be in the lead sentence? Compare with the following:

The Golan Heights, or simply the Golan, is a region in the Levant spanning about 1,800 km2 (690 sq mi).
Crimea is a peninsula in Eastern Europe, on the northern coast of the Black Sea, almost entirely surrounded by the Black Sea and the smaller Sea of Azov.
The Liancourt Rocks are a group of islets in the Sea of Japan between the Korean peninsula and the Japanese archipelago.
Nagorno-Karabakh is a landlocked region in the South Caucasus.

As you can see, almost no other article about a disputed territory refers to them as such in the lead sentence, I think it would be better suited to have the lead written something like this, and summarise the geography afterwards, then get into the political situation:

Western Sahara is a region the northwest coast and in the Maghreb region of North and West Africa.

- CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 00:03, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how that's an improvement. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:35, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The current lead in this article gives to much weight to the current political situation IMO compared to the other ones I linked above, it should be balanced in also summarising the geography and history. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 01:55, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unexplained revert

Hi @M.Bitton, could you please explain why did you dismiss the content i added as "UNDUE"? SimoooIX (talk) 18:18, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I did so don't you dare call it "unexplained" and don't ping me again. It's not just UNDUE, it's POV that serves no purpose other than a political agenda. M.Bitton (talk) 18:21, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

1)- you called my edit "UNDUE", so you sould explain why.

2)- If you don't want to be pinged, please explain your edits next time. What you're doing doesn't make anysense. SimoooIX (talk) 18:32, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What POV? and what political agenda? Please refrain from such accusations. The scholarly source clearly suggests what i added.

In the 1540s, according to Marmol-Carvajal (a Spaniard who was prisoner in Morocco for over seven years), the authority of Muhammad al-Mahdi reached as far as Saqiyat al-Hamra. ^[1]

It is not undue. The Saqiya el-Hamra is a part of Western Sahara and thus its history is a part of Western Sahara's. SimoooIX (talk) 18:36, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Now that you're familiar with how Wikipedia works, I don't need to tell you what to do or waste time explaining to you what WP:UNDUE is. I'm done here. M.Bitton (talk) 18:41, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Since you are "done" here, I'm taking this to ANI. SimoooIX (talk) 19:39, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For those who are not familiar with the subject: this edit is clearly meant to create a historical link between present-day Morocco and Western Sahara (a contentious subject that was settled once and for all by the ICJ). M.Bitton (talk) 20:52, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That wasn't the reason why added it. But isn't there a "historical link" already? Am I the one who's going to create a historical link? Sorry, but your excuses don't make anysense. SimoooIX (talk) 20:56, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We're not talking about you normal historical links that are shared by all neighbours. This is a case of asinine irredentist claims that have been conjured up in the 20th century. M.Bitton (talk) 21:07, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if i accurately undestood what you meant. Please could you clarify? SimoooIX (talk) 21:20, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Western Sahara is not only a disputed geographic area, but also holds a rich historical significance, which is why there is a dedicated section for "history". The content I added, which is sourced, pertains to the 16th century rather than the 20th or 21st centuries. (I actually still have more content to add) SimoooIX (talk) 01:31, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for asking me to comment. Simoool, what kind of content are you planning on adding? ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:31, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you koavf, the content i wanted to add is about history. please see my edit here, and here is the source. ^[2] --SimoooIX (talk) 20:38, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This does seem like a one-off opinion from several centuries ago, so I think it may be WP:UNDUE. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:12, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Luis del Mármol Carvajal is one of the most reliable chroniclers when it comes to this period. also these maps here [1][2][3] are confirming that the Saadi authority had reached Saqiya al-Hamra region. SimoooIX (talk) 23:09, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Koavf, i'm waiting for your answer please. SimoooIX (talk) 19:40, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A one-off reference to a single source several centuries ago seems undue to me. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:01, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't undue especially when it comes from such a reliable chronicler (not a random person). Also what about the maps? SimoooIX (talk) 20:07, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reliable sources about the subject establish DUE, not random maps (let alone stupid ones, like those that are usually published by sciencespo). Anyway, now that you have the third opinion , you have no reason to keep banging on about this. M.Bitton (talk) 20:09, 16 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Simoooix.haddi You're annoying and playing stupid. If you are incapable of understanding what has been explained to you already you should spend time studying logic, reason and English. But you do understand the issues and that is why you've been overruled. On the subject matter i don't care much about it as I'm from a different continent. SarsZals (talk) 05:17, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is a personal attack and you've been warned in your talk page. (The following question is not for you) Is it normal that this new editor pinged my old username? Or because that was my username when i started this discussion? (This is a serious question) SimoooIX (talk) 06:28, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Oliver, Roland, ed. (1977). The Cambridge History of Africa: Volume 3: From c.1050 to c.1600. The Cambridge History of Africa. Vol. 3. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 410. doi:10.1017/chol9780521209816. ISBN 978-0-521-20981-6.
^ Oliver, Roland, ed. (1977). The Cambridge History of Africa: Volume 3: From c.1050 to c.1600. The Cambridge History of Africa. Vol. 3. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 410. doi:10.1017/chol9780521209816. ISBN 978-0-521-20981-6.

Correction on Moroccan frontiers

moroccan south borders is Mauritania. There is no country in UNations called western Sahara,. It's Moroccan Sahara. Eastern and western. Please correct. And always go to sources like united nations before publishing. Thank you 196.75.138.108 (talk) 13:19, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article does not claim to be about a country, it's about a disupted geographical region. It clearly states "Western Sahara is a disputed territory..." in the opening sentence. The borders of the article's subject are correct. The partially-recognized country is Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. Fbergo (talk) 18:12, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2023

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Add coordinates:

{{Coord|24|N|14|W|type:country|display=title}}

Wiki-ircecho (talk) 09:21, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:38, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 August 2023

This edit request to Moroccan Sahara has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

41.147.1.220 (talk) 06:38, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 06:56, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

First sentence

Any objection to reducing on the northwest coast and in the Maghreb region of North and West Africa to on the northwest coast of Africa? Srnec (talk) 23:12, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No objection, I guess, but I think it's fine as is. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:24, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Law enforcement in Western Sahara" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Law enforcement in Western Sahara has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 September 28 § Law enforcement in Western Sahara until a consensus is reached. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 18:54, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Oliver, Roland, ed. (1977). The Cambridge History of Africa: Volume 3: From c.1050 to c.1600. The Cambridge History of Africa. Vol. 3. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 410. doi:10.1017/chol9780521209816. ISBN 978-0-521-20981-6.

[2] Oliver, Roland, ed. (1977). The Cambridge History of Africa: Volume 3: From c.1050 to c.1600. The Cambridge History of Africa. Vol. 3. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p. 410. doi:10.1017/chol9780521209816. ISBN 978-0-521-20981-6.

[1]

[2]