Talk:Little Wing

Letter to Bil

According to biographer Harry Shapiro,[1] Hendrix wrote a letter to a female fan named Bil while on a UK tour with the Walker Brothers in April 1967, which he later followed up with a note (Shapiro says the two never actually met). However, nothing in his biography (or others) suggests a connection between Bil and "Little Wing". The letter and lyrics don't appear to share similar words or phrasing. Without a WP:Reliable source comparing the letter and the lyrics, to conclude that they "bear a resemblance" is WP:Original research. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:18, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

[copied from User talk:Ojorojo#Little Wing edit]:

Hi Ojorojo. Please would you explain why you have edited out what I wrote on the Little Wing page, about the letter to Bil. I think this is interesting information to add to the heading of 'Interpretation'. I am not asserting anything, just giving the information about the similarity between the Little Wing lyrics & the sentiments in the letter to Bil. I do not think that Hendrix often made mention of women's minds and imagination, so it could be significant. People will of course make up their own minds, but I don't see why this info should be suppressed, and I have quoted my sources. It is no more speculative than the comments of Leon Hendrix and Charles Shaar Murray, particularly as Hendrix said the song was about one girl. I am new to editing, so I would like to know in what way I have transgressed! Jaspermont (talk) 21:31, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

First of all, welcome to Wikipedia. I think it's great that you have an interest in Jimi Hendrix – many of his articles are in need of attention. "Little Wing" is a WP:GOODARTICLE, which means it has gone through a review process to ensure it meets the WP:Good article criteria. Criterion #2 is "Verifiable with no original research", which basically means that anything included in an article should be found in a reliable source ("RS"). All the sources for background material regarding the song specifically mention "Little Wing" – Shapiro, Hendrix himself, Murray, Leon Hendrix, etc. I kept your quote from the 1969 interview, because Hendrix mentions the song by name. However, in the Bil letter, he makes no mention of LW and his biographers have not made this connection (the Katerina quote is included because he noted "My Angel Catherina (Return of Little Wing)" shortly after meeting her). The ideas expressed by Murray and Leon may be speculative, but they are tied to LW and come from a RS. However, speculation about a connection between the Bil letter and LW is yours alone and is not supported by a RS. "...Your mind is, so imaginative, so beautiful there's no words for the sweet little drops of dreams that you manage to put on paper...No way to describe how happy you make me dureing (sic) these dark hours of today or any day..." seems to express much more general sentiments than "a circus mind that's running wild, Butterflies and zebras, and moonbeams and fairy tales, That's all she ever thinks about, riding with the wind". Unless there is a RS noting the similarity, to state this would be original research. To include the letter alone seems off-topic ("The most readable articles contain no irrelevant (nor only loosely relevant) information", emphasis added). I don't see that adding this contributes to a reader's understanding of LW. Hendrix's relationships and views on women are more appropriate in a biographical article. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:56, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I had not understood that only information that had been published could be put on Wikipedia. Incidentally, whatever Shapiro said, Hendrix and Bil did meet, and the letter I quoted is the third one that I have seen published. She wrote a short account of their first meeting in Univibes, and they also printed a poster on which Hendrix had written 'Please write me in London. We must see each other again'. Presumably they did, as he dedicated Electric Ladyland to her. So published sources are not necessarily reliable! But I accept your point and rules are rules. Jaspermont (talk) 20:51, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Sometimes there are mistakes or inaccuracies, especially in works on pop music subjects. "Verifiability, not truth" should be balanced with common sense. The essay Wikipedia:Verifiability, not truth#"If it's written in a book, it must be true!" includes: "Even the most reliable sources commit mistakes from time to time, such as misspelling a name or getting some detail wrong. Such mistakes, when found, should be ignored, and not be employed to describe a non-existent dispute." —Ojorojo (talk) 15:09, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Covers

I have only found three worthy versions of the tune; Jimi's, SRV's, and Concrete Blonde's. I like each masterpiece better than the former. While I'm relieved that not every cover ever made is listed, I'm disappointed that Concrete Blonde's is omitted. Cheers!
--2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:7098:B2A1:1BD5:76CC (talk) 21:44, 4 May 2018 (UTC)Doug Bashford

Do you have any reliable sources that discuss CB's version as noteworthy? It's not mentioned in their AllMusic bio[2] nor in the review for the album on which it appears.[3] Otherwise, it can't be distinguished from all the many covers that are not listed. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:08, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

2010 single

Hello Muhandes: The BPI link provided with the silver certification shows "Jimi Hendrix Experience", "Sony Music", and a release date of "15.01.10". Sony/Legacy released two Hendrix (including Experience and other backing musicians) albums in 2010, Valleys of Neptune and West Coast Seattle Boy, but neither includes "Little Wing". I went through several sources, including the official Jimihendrix.com website that usually announces all of his releases, but couldn't find a c.2010 single release for "Little Wing".

In 1972, Polydor UK included a live version from 1969 as the B-side to "Johnny B. Goode", but only the latter appeared on the chart (there is no OCC listing for "Little Wing" in any year).[4][5] When Hendrix in the West was reissued in September 2011, a live version of "Little Wing" from 1968 was substituted for the one from 1969. However, there is no indication that it was released as a single from the album or from Winterland, which was also released in September 2011.

Without more information, it can't said which version of "Little Wing" was certified and may lead some readers to wrongly conclude it was the original one from Axis: Bold as Love or one of the later live versions.

—Ojorojo (talk) 15:30, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ojorojo: My guesstimate is that this date is when a digital version was made available. There is no way to know which version it was, and BPI may bundle versions together when it comes to streaming data. Anyway, what are you suggesting? I would not object to adding a footnote saying that the exact version certified is unclear. Muhandes (talk) 16:48, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

@Muhandes: Yes, that needs to clarified. Also, a separate section with a table with a single entry is advised against by WP:OVERSECTION ("Very short sections and subsections clutter an article with headings and inhibit the flow of the prose. Short paragraphs and single sentences generally do not warrant their own subheading.") and MOS:TABLES ("should be used only when appropriate; sometimes the information in a table may be better presented as prose paragraphs or as an embedded": all of the examples have four or more entries).

By using prose under "Releases", there is no need for a footnote:

"In 2022, the British Phonographic Industry awarded "Little Wing" its Silver certification, signifying sales of over 200,000. However, it is unknown whether this applies to the original recording or a subsequent live version.

The certification for "Hey Joe" presents the same problem and should be changed accordingly.

—Ojorojo (talk) 17:31, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

@Ojorojo: I have no objection. In fact, I rarely do, so feel free to just go WP:BOLD on me. Muhandes (talk) 17:35, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

References

@Muhandes: Sounds good, I'll change both. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:40, 29 September 2022 (UTC)