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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 45.58.94.255 (talk) at 22:39, 23 November 2023 (→Noktundo is not in Russia). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

NPOV

In article present only korean POV on claimed, disputable territory, and no other side - Russia POV on this disputable area. Yes Noktundo exist but in russian map 19 century Noktundo is now Big Island DPRK territory. Kun Som https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kun-som/@42.3014425,130.6615769,14z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x5fb5ed816b0e5bf3:0xbd841471f68297e2 46.183.6.170 (talk) 16:53, 26 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt Russians even know what Noktundo is. --208.72.125.2 (talk) 20:08, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Former island?

If this island for some reason no longer exists, then a statement to that effect should be included with some explanation.

Philologick (talk) 21:28, 17 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Noktundo is not a peninsula

It existed as an island at one point but it is not a peninsula. It is only part of a peninsula considering the island never made up the entire peninsula that exists now.

204.197.177.54 (talk) 19:58, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is Noktundo real or legend?

What evidence is there Noktundo ever existed? Is there any map of it in the past?

136.143.222.154 (talk) 04:40, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Almost definitely real; google images "녹둔도 지도". At the very least it seems a very plausible situation; the area is loamy and has lots of islands that appear and disappear. Related, this property of the islands caused border disputes between China and North Korea in the Sino-Korean Border Agreement toobigtokale (talk) 23:11, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In any event, it's unimaginable it was 32 square kilometers which would make it a huge island in such a small river. Where does the 32 square kilometer figure come from? 69.166.119.181 (talk) 03:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't spot that detail; I don't know much on the topic and probably won't get around to looking it up, have some other stuff I'm working on. It's a good question though toobigtokale (talk) 03:55, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of ROK in the administration section of the article

I deleted ROK in the administration section of the article because, while there is a border treaty between Russia and DPRK, there is no border treaty between Russia and ROK, nor is ROK geographically located anywhere near Tumen river.

69.166.119.181 (talk) 22:57, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion of Russia in the administration section of the article

Because of lack of historical map, no one can be sure the island was located in what is now Russia. For all we know, the location of the river could have been what is now North Korea, which would make the island located in what is now North Korea.

69.166.119.181 (talk) 23:01, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rewording Noktundo from is a former island to was an island

We don't say North America is former part of Pangae. We say North America used to be part of Pangae. So we cannot say Nokdundo is a former island. We cannot use the word is because is implies it exists. Noktundo does not exist. So we should use the word was. So we should say Noktundo was an island. 216.165.208.163 (talk) 18:22, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Theory behind Noktundo's disappearance

It likely existed during the Little Ice Age when sea level was lower. After the Little Ice Age, sea level rose and the island went under water. This could be similar to how the Red Sea used to be land during the Ice Age when sea level was lower and after the Ice Age ended sea level rose and the land went under water.

66.22.174.209 (talk) 05:50, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Single User attempting to remove Noktundo across multiple pages

Special:Contributions/136.143.218.177

Special:Contributions/162.221.124.31

Special:Contributions/216.165.208.92

Special:Contributions/216.165.208.163

Special:Contributions/172.98.156.47

Special:Contributions/136.143.217.225

Special:Contributions/66.22.174.209


I am putting this down for reference as I look into this more, but I identified these 7 accounts that all share similaries with a total focus on Noktundo as well as trying to get it deleted across multiple pages.


They are focusing on Convention of Peking, Noktundo, Talk:List of territorial disputes, etc. Sunnyediting99 (talk) 00:34, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Special:Contributions/69.166.119.181
Special:Contributions/136.143.222.154
Also more IP accounts? This is very suspicious given just how many IP accounts say almost the exact same topics (that Noktundo is under water, some of them also comment on Bakhmut which is a strange and doesnt appear to be a coincidence?) I am looking into this more Sunnyediting99 (talk) 00:38, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Materialscientist could you please protect List of territorial disputes? User has reversed our edits and has spammed the Talk with Noktundo multiple times using different IPs
Also a longer term protection might be needed, given this user's multi-month long dedication to deletion. I will keep this page on a watchlist though to be safe Sunnyediting99 (talk) 15:04, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am issuing this warning to you, if you continue with this vandalism and blatant racism, describing Koreans and Chinese as "backwards" along with a serious number of other degrading statements you have made scattered all across the page, I will take action. Sunnyediting99 (talk) 00:15, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Noktundo sank below the water. It is not in Primorsky krai.

Even the Bering strait used to be land. Even the English channel used to be land. Even the Red sea used to be land. What makes you so sure Noktundo did not sink under the sea when Little Ice Age ended and sea level rose? You cannot prove Noktundo is in Primorsky krai. So you cannot say Noktundo belongs to Korea.

168.91.61.39 (talk) 03:44, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop with your constant IP changes, it is very obviously clear this is the same person behind the multiple edits. The article is not even making the point that Noktundo belongs to Korea, it is merely pointing out there is a territorial dispute between the ROK and the Russian Federation due to the 1860 Convention by the Qing and Russian Empires. Sunnyediting99 (talk) 04:28, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Noktundo was not an issue at the 1860 Peking convention. Noktundo sank below the water after Little Ice Age ended and sea level rose. In 1860 the island was under water. It was not an issue at the 1860 Peking convention. Koreans never brought up the issue. The source is unreliable and appears to be a political hit piece intended to incite unnecessary conflict. Wikipedia should check its source. That's all. Cheers.

172.98.144.173 (talk) 12:28, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is what I am pointing out, this is yet another IP address that is completely different from the one what made the first point and shows these accounts are all being used by the same user. This cannot be discussed in good faith when multiple talk pages are littered with unnecessarily created multiple topics on the exact same issue, and with the exact same points. Sunnyediting99 (talk) 14:03, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Serious racism in the article

In the article the Jurchens are called barbarians. I quote from the article "The Jurchens took notice of this. In 1587 there was a battle fought on this island between the local Koreans and the invading barbarian Jurchens from nearby Russia."

Wikipedia is seriously turning into anti China and anti Russia propaganda and racist political hit piece.

This is seriously offensive. I myself have Jurchen ancestors. I am certainly not barbarian. Please edit this article and get rid of racism. Thanks.

168.91.61.39 (talk) 04:26, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Seems like fake facts in this article

According to this article, Koreans took something like 25 years to notice Noktundo after Peking convention. I quote from the article " When the Joseon government found this out in the 1880s, this became a matter of protest to the Koreans, who claimed that the Russians had no authority to do so, and protested it to the Qing dynasty."

How is that possible? I mean, if you are gonna care about an island, it wouldn't take you 25 years to notice it. So either the island didn't exist at the Peking convention or Koreans were ignorant of the outside world in the 1800s.

172.98.144.173 (talk) 04:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

South Korea's claim of Noktundo is an act of war

North Korea considers Noktundo an island in the river and therefore no man's land. South Korea is ordered by the US to invade Primorsky krai and take all of Primorsky krai. Considering South Korea does not know where Noktundo is in Primorsky krai, the only way to be sure South Korea take back Noktundo is to take the entire Primorsky krai. And that will be Falklands war 2.0

172.98.144.173 (talk) 04:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Theory presented as fact with no evidence or proof

There is no evidence or proof the river changed its course. There is also no evidence or proof Koreans ever controlled any land north of the river. I quote from the article "At the time of the shallowing of the northern branch of the Tumen, the course of the river changed from time to time. As a result, the island of Noktundo was sometimes joined with the mainland of Primorsky Krai. Regardless, the island remained under Korean jurisdiction." Where's the evidence or proof of any of these claims? There is none. There is no evidence or proof. The fact all the land north of the river was transferred from China to Russia at the 1860 Peking convention is evidence there were no Koreans north of the river.

172.98.144.173 (talk) 05:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article is hijacked by South Koreans and it is garbage

You South Koreans will never get back Noktundo. Ever. So dream on. And I will leave it at that.

172.98.144.173 (talk) 05:05, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

South Korea has never demanded the return of Noktundo from Russia

I quote from the article "South Korea refused to acknowledge the treaty and demanded that Russia return the territory to Korea." The only source of this is an article written in Russian with no corroboration from any other source. This appears to be fiction presented as fact. Please delete this from the article.

168.91.61.39 (talk) 02:11, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The area of Noktundo is most definitely not 3.2 square kilometers

Unlike Europeans who made detailed maps of the world, Koreans never make a single map of Korea and the surrounding areas. Koreans never made a single map of Noktundo. By the time the Russians arrived at Tumen river in the 1800s and made maps of the area, Noktundo had already sunk below the water after the Little Ice Age ended and sea level rose. With that said, there is no evidence the area of Noktundo is 3.2 square kilometers as written in this article. I quote "The area of the island was 3.2 square kilometres (1.2 sq mi)."

172.98.151.41 (talk) 04:41, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Koreans do not deserve Noktundo

Unlike Europeans who had mathematics, science, exploration, and made maps, East Asians like Koreans and Chinese never had any of these. So East Asians needed a kick in the butt to modernize. Just like Chinese who lost all the land east of the Amur and Ussuri rivers, Koreans lost all the land north of Tumen river. Koreans have no right to complain about being backwater just as Chinese have no right to complain about being backwater. 168.91.61.39 (talk) 14:37, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is my last warning to you, as it is very difficult to even communicate with you given that you are IP hopping across multiple areas and abusing these IPs. You raise points that can easily be refuted but is pointless in doing so, because you are constantly changing your argument, not engaging with other users in good faith as shown in previous edits weeks or months ago (or now), and you have ignored my previous warnings.
https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20220623000747
https://www.rfa.org/korean/commentary/mmh/russia_build_levees_nokdundo-20061204.html
These are sources supporting the fact that there is a territorial dispute between ROK and RF over this territory and also mentions that DPRK resolved it with RF while ROK haven't. I can add more but I can see you are not interested in engagement.
If you continue your activities and continue to spam these Talk pages with your behavior, I will undertake a SPI investigation on you. Your activity greatly parallels a previous Russian editor who was banned for racism as well as vandalism.
I have already taken action before by getting these pages protected because you kept vandalizing them, most recently list of territorial disputes. You have one last chance to stop IP hopping or I will contact admin and ask them to stop you. Sunnyediting99 (talk) 19:59, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No South Korean president has ever asked Noktundo from Russia. Your sources do not indicate there is territory dispute between South Korea and Russia. There has to be official demands or claims to justify territorial disputes between nations. One article written in Russian dating to 2013 does not justify your claim there is territorial dispute between South Korea and Russia. 45.58.94.255 (talk) 22:20, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Russians will never give Noktundo back to South Korea

Russians claim Noktundo went underwater in the 1800s when Little Ice Age ended and sea level rose. There is evidence of Little Ice Age. There is no evidence Tumen river changed course and made Noktundo disappear. Koreans never made a map of Noktundo and never documented it. So there is no evidence Tumen river changed course. Russians say they will never give Noktundo back to South Korea because they say it is underwater and if South Koreans want it then they can have it which is on the sea floor in the delta of Tumen river.

206.176.157.228 (talk) 02:13, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

South Korea war for Noktundo will lead to WW3

Noktundo sank under water in the 1800s when Little Ice Age ended and sea level rose. If South Korea invades Primorsky krai for Noktundo then South Korea will go to war with Russia's neighbors North Korea and China. It will devastate South Korean civilians. If South Korea wants Noktundo, then go scuba diving, but do not invade Russia.

45.58.94.255 (talk) 22:27, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Noktundo is not in Russia

There is no evidence Noktundo is in Russia. It is very likely Noktundo sank under water in the 1800s when Little Ice Age ended and sea level rose. Keep in mind Red Sea, Bering strait, English channel were land during Ice Age and sank under water when Ice Age ended 10,000 BC and sea level rose. So what makes you think Noktundo a small island next to the ocean cannot go under water when Little Ice Age ended in the 1800s and sea level rose. There is no evidence Noktundo is in Russia. There are quite a few islands in the delta of Tumen river today. Go pick one of them and call it Noktundo. But do not say Noktundo is in Russia.

45.58.94.255 (talk) 22:37, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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