Jump to content

Talk:Iblis

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by VenusFeuerFalle (talk | contribs) at 00:00, 6 December 2023 (Little problem with the "he was raised to the level of angels"-narrative: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

WikiProject iconIslam B‑class Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
BThis article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconMythology B‑class Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is supported by WikiProject Mythology. This project provides a central approach to Mythology-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the WikiProject page for more details.
BThis article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Little problem with the "he was raised to the level of angels"-narrative

This is pretty popular and even mentioned among many cited sources, however, I couldn't find, after reading through about 10 tafasirs in Arabic, not even one such story. And non of these sources do cite material, ecept for Tobias Nünlist Daemon belief in Islam. A German work with a lot of material regarding jinn, div, devils, angels, and satans in Islamic Medieval Age tradition. He attributes this to the Ikhwan as Safa, anonymous authors on Islamic legends with clear Neo-Platonic tendencies. The closest thing I found in tafsir is, that Iblis was taken captive by the angels,a fter he was sent down to earth to the jinn as a judge. But even here, he judges them and we don't know if he was an angel or a jinni in this report (They read him as "from the jinn" instead of "one of the jinn"). But still, there is no "works his way up to heaven". This is not to say that Iblis is always an angel. But those who say he is not, think of him mostly as the father of the jinn, not as an individual member from the pre-Adamite jinn. I am really unsure what to do. On one hand, there are a lot of references in reliable sources, probably due to contemporary popularity, but on the other hand, it doesn't seem to reflect anything established in Islamic exegetical tradition. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 18:10, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I found this essay on what to do if sources are wrong. However, since this is a huge step, and contradicting quite a few sources also used in the article, I would like to know if others know any better and could find support that the idea that Iblis was "a pious jinni elavted to tha rank of angels" has ever been considered by any (traditional) Muslim scholar. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 12:09, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I checked Awn's Satan-Book to look up for the primary source. It seems to be be Tarikh Khamis which tells about two of Iblis' origins. However, as a sixteenth Century compliation, I am not sure, how muhc it actually represents Islamic traditions regarding this matter. VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 00:00, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]