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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by The ganymedian (talk | contribs) at 18:01, 21 December 2023 (→Video of Hamas Attack: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Collage

With the first quarter of 2023 done, I think we can begin making a collage which would obviously be altered throughout the rest of the year.

1. The Syria/ Turkish Earthquake 2. French Pensions protests (although this is domestic, some domestic events get global attention) 3. Israeli Judicial Reform protests (same situation as France) 4. The rise of AI (maybe Chat GPT could be used) 5. The Chinese Spy Balloon incident 6. Trump's indictment (same thing as France) 7. Signiture Bank Collapse (mostly a US thing but it had global impacts) 8. Finland joining NATO, which hasn't happened yet, but it will soon TRJ2008 (talk) 13:40, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly the collage can be less American-centric than you propose: Benedict XVI's funeral, assault on Brazilian high institutions, High Seas Treaty... _-_Alsor (talk) 16:53, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. MarioJump83 (talk) 09:26, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also in agreement here, although I probably wouldn’t include the Brazil capital events on the collage, for much the same reasons as those of the US in January 2021. TheScrubby (talk) 09:37, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with most of these, though I don't think the Chinese spy balloon should qualify, it wasn't that big a deal at the end of the day. GevBen (talk) 18:58, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say five for now: Silicon Valley Bank, ChatGPT and AI, Brazil, the Earthquake, and Finland joining NATO./ InvadingInvader

Nominate the inclusion of the following events for consideration (with some events repeated from previous nominations). (1) Croatia adopts the euro and joins the Schengen Area, (2) 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquake, (3) Northern Ireland Protocol, (4) High Seas Treaty, (5) Iran and Saudi Arabia agree to resume diplomatic relations, (6) Acquisition of Credit Suisse by UBS, (7) IPCC Sixth Assessment Report, (8) Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO. Carter00000 (talk) 08:58, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. Although I would not include the sixth IPCC report. The previous ones have not been included in the collage. Not that it's irrelevant, but it's not particularly noticeable either. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:16, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd replace the IPCC report with either the Israeli or French protests. Every previous year for the last few years has had a major protest from around the world in the collage and I feel like these were the most high profile ones this year so far. GevBen (talk) 23:06, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is no need for so many pictures - in fact, there is no need for a collage at all. Let's wait until we know what this year's big news stories are. Any particularly significant individual events can have images placed alongside their entry. Deb (talk) 15:19, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer to wait until this year is finished. I remember feeling that the collage of 2022 are being not up-to-date after October's events, with crowd crushes and collapses of that time. MarioJump83 (talk) 00:55, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Best option is to not have the collage at all since it is entirely useless. Least bad solution is at the very least to wait for the year to be over before we even start talking about it since trying to compile the content before year's end would just be a complete waste of time. --McSly (talk) 19:47, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the notion not to have a collage until the end of the year. And I also agree that we really don't need many pictures at the moment if there even was one right now. That being said if I had to say what I think should eligible for the collage:

  • For certain - Turkey-Syria Earthquake, Finland joining NATO
  • Should be considered but could be swapped out - French or Israeli protests (I don't think it's likely we'd choose both), American Bank Collapses, Brazil Congress Attack, AI, High Seas Treaty, Sudan Conflict

As I said though, I think we should wait until the end of the year just to post a definitive collage because by that point everything would be a lot clearer in retrospective on what to add and also it would avoid constant changes as notable events are always likely to spring throughout the rest of the year. CaptainGalaxy 12:29, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Whenever everyone decides to vote on images, I gladly volunteer to assemble this year's collage! The ganymedian (talk) 03:37, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Collage

2023 is now halfway done and I think we can start working on a collage. There will obviously be moments later in the year that would replace some of those I'm about to mention. Anyway here's my suggestions:

The Turkish Earthquake

The Titan Implosion

Charles' coronation

The rise of AI

The spy balloon incident

The Israeli Judicial reform protests

The Wagner rebellion

The Sudanese conflict TRJ2008 (talk) 13:13, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I am of the opinion we shouldn't have a dedicated discussion on the collage until say late-November or December. A lot can happen in another 6 months so I'd rather we just let it play out before we focus on the collage. That being said, in my opinion some of the events suggested I don't think reflect this year or at least aren't as impactful as others. The events in question that you have listed are; The Titan Implosion - It doesn't have any impact on much, Charles' Coronation - Debatable but is likely not going to get past voting, Spy Balloon - It was impactful but feel wasn't as notable as other events, Wagner Rebellion - Could be really impactful but I suggest just waiting and seeing how it pans out. CaptainGalaxy 14:41, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We have already come to a concensus on the collage
We have added the earthquakes, the Brazillian congress attack, the banking crsis, and the ICC's arrest warrant for Putin. You can find the links to the images on the edit page. Thanks for trying DementiaGaming (talk) 15:28, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
When the end of the year is near, and people vote on photos to include, I happily volunteer to make this collage! The ganymedian (talk) 16:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, we should wait until the end of the year, I can't wait to see what the collage will look like. 4me689 (talk) 22:55, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
there is a collage discussion here, about a early version of the 2023 collage that was made, for anybody interested. 4me689 (talk) 20:57, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 North India floods & 2023 South Korean floods

Should we add 2023 North India flood & 2023 South Korean floods to the page? The death toll for both events are quite high, comparable to other disasters which have been included on this page (ie. June 21, June 14, March 18, January 10). Carter00000 (talk) 14:03, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The North India flood deserves to be on there, it killed 422 people. DementiaGaming (talk) 18:12, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mass Removal of Content

I note that user JohnAdams1800 has made a number of removals across the page. The edit summaries for the removals seems to cite consensus which is not readily apparent or documented.

  • The UAW strike isn't important enough to merit inclusion here. It would merit being in the 2023 in the U.S. article but it's too localized and not a natural disaster.
  • The SAG-AFTRA strike is too localized to merit inclusion on this page.
  • Hurricane Hilary is too localized and didn't cause exceptional damage or death.
  • The St.Petersburg bombing is part of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and doesn't merit its own entry.
  • The New Zealand-EU trade deal is too localized and routine to merit an entry on this article.
  • The Tenerife fire didn't cause any fatalities, and is thus too localized to merit an entry.
  • Bilateral relations, both commercial and military, are not sufficiently important to merit entries unless they are truly extraordinary or conflicts.

I would like to seek some additional input on weather the items should be removed, given the quantity of the removals and the justifications for the removals.

Removed Content

The following items were removed.

    • August 15 – 2023 Tenerife wildfire: More than 3,000 people are evacuated from the Spanish Canary Island of Tenerife as a wildfire breaks out. The fire burns some 2,600 hectares (around 6,424 acres) of land.

Carter00000 (talk) 18:02, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Propose to reinstate all removed items for the time being, given the vague references to consensus given as justification in the edit summaries. The items may be removed again later if there are other editors who wish to remove the items and/or consensus to remove the items. Carter00000 (talk) 18:19, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support totally agree. There is no need for an extensive justification if it is sufficiently clear, easy to understand and are common sense knowing what is the raison d'être of Year in Topic. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:25, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose mass removal, at least for now. This is the old international notability standard back at it again. See my essay on why we should not bring back International Notability for context. There is no consensus for neither the standard nor the removal. I am vehemently against the standards as enforced from 2021 to early 2023 being reigned in yet again.
I personally am strongly against the removals of either UAW or SAG-AFTRA. Unions affect a major chunk of notable businesses which have a wide effect on culture. For UAW, the argument is a bit stronger for exclusion, but prices for automobiles are due to go up because of this alone, and it's covered by reliable sources (Vox and AP. For now, given the grave impacts that RS's have cited could be caused from the UAW strike, I argue for its inclusion, though if it gets resolved quickly without major effect to the economy as described by RS's, I will support exclusion.
I could see as to why bilateral diplomatic and trade relations aren't too significant enough. The standards for natural disasters seem to arbitrary, though I could see the argument for Hurricane Hilary and the Tenerife fires. I would be open to a firmer standard or criteria for natural disasters pending that it gets an RFC.
For other events, I would suggest that we include or exclude them based on due weight, and not arbitrary standards. Previous debates on 2022 regarding the inclusion of Robbie Coltrane and more so Barbara Walters (the "Coltrane RFC" and "Walters RFC" respectively) cited the wide dissatisfaction with international notability as it has been previously defined on Years articles. I do not wish to see it implemented here ever again. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 00:00, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose mass removal. The SAG-AFTRA strike should absolutely be included. The strike being due, at least in part, to the emergence of AI, is highly notable. It would be useful and informative to readers in the future, looking back at the progress of this tech. Also, Hollywood studios have global reach and a major influence on culture, and the workers are often based in other countries, not just the US. Wjfox2005 (talk) 12:28, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So what? The real impact of this is minimal and almost nonexistent in the world. Just because it's Hollywood, we're not going to include the death of the cat that used to walk around the studios. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:45, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
in my opinion it should be Case by case basis.
SAG-AFTRA & UAW strikes should be included, because they are covered 24/7 on the news and has a big impact on their respective industries.
Hurricane Hilary should be included, because it infected not only the us but also Mexico and some Caribbean countries.
The St.Petersburg bombing should be excluded because this Page is not a timeline for the Ukrainian war.
The New Zealand-EU trade should be excluded because is this the local trade deal which I don't think the general public even knows or cares about, and should be put on their respected places year pages as it's just useless trivia.
The Tenerife fire should be included because the press is on it and it is devastating Spain. 4me689 (talk) 15:51, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, the New Zealand-EU trade agreement is the most event most worthy of inclusion in the list. New Zealand and the EU together encompass 28 separate countries, accounting for approximately one-sixth of global trade. Considering the impact on the world economy as a whole, I believe this event should be in included on the page. Carter00000 (talk) 16:52, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would second the inclusion of the NZ-EU deal based on Carter's argument. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:54, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You should know that treaties between the EU and singular countries (NZ, Fiji, Malawi or San Marino) are common. This is how international diplomacy works since its millenary origin: with treaties whenever possible. No treaty should be included.
The Tenerife fire is not the worst that the Canary Islands, nor Tenerife, nor Spain have ever had. No notorious figures of damages and victims.
Hurricane Hilary has affected several countries, as any other hurricane, storm or wave can affect. Without notorious figures of damages and victims.
The strikes are notorious and this year's have had no international effect.
What a poor Year in Topic it ends up being, sincerely. Not every sine international event should be included. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:08, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why do we even keep saying "international"? Seems like that we're going back to "international exclusive" inclusion criterias when we should really be following the due weight policies instead. I don't think there's ever going to be a non-local consensus which endorses the standards that you are alluding to. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 23:55, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree that we no longer have the "international notability" standard here, but even due weight policies has its limits, the 2023 page is not a timeline of the Ukrainian War, nor its a news site. this is just a Wikipedia page for the year 2023, and its supposed to give highlights of the year to readers, not a timeline by timeline of the year. if possible we can always go with the RFC approach for this discussion, which is looking like it's getting close too. 4me689 (talk) 00:18, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Correct. But it does seem like that this is way too loaded of a question for an RFC. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 10:12, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then load 2023 in the United States. What's the point of this one, if Year in Topic is already there, if international notability is already irrelevant. This is a real disaster. Manage it yourselves, because I don't want to participate in this if it is neither productive nor of quality. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:31, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think we all agree year in topic is needed for much more niche events, but for the biggest events in a year in topic, they deserve inclusion here based on due weight per how much coverage they get. Most of the people who concur with my opinion think that year articles are too exclusive, and more so based on arbitrary disaster standards (aka, what I refuted in my international notability essay) rather than coverage. A majority of us, aside from maybe you and John, are generally in favor of coverage based standards, and while I value your opinion on more substance-based events, a rough philosophy I myself agree with, I think you're being too exclusionary. Besides, SAG-AFTRA's and the UAW's international impact, as demonstrated by previous comments, works against you in substance. So would the business buyouts of Splunk by Cisco, and Coach New York (Tapestry) buying Versace and Michael Kors. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 04:30, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the removal of the SAG-AFTRA strike and Hurricane Hilary (the reasoning is because it drew so much attention in and confused everybody). DementiaGaming (talk) 22:19, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
update, an RFC has been made on this situation. 4me689 (talk) 00:51, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the RFC, given that there has been clearly insufficient WP:RFCBEFORE. Carter00000 (talk) 02:26, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay I'll just wait, i'll see how long this discussion keeps going on and how deep the arguments go before starting up the RFC again. 4me689 (talk) 02:29, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose removal of the SAF-AFTRA strike Hollywood movies are not a local topic. See https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/world/2022/. The foreign revenue for the 200 highest grossing movies of 2022 was large, often exceeding the revenue in the United States. It has received significant coverage from the BBC https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c7p29rdrw9xt. The topic of the effect of AI on jobs also makes it more generally notable. Oppose removal of UAW strike. U.S. car makers' share of overseas markets, as well as domestic markets, is declining but it is not insignificant. Also, Fortune magazine had an article entitled Your American Car Is Probably Not as American as You Think in 2019. It is behind a paywall but the title shows that the strike is of importance to foreign manufacturers and has more than a local scope. The inclusion of Hurricane Hilary can only be justified because it was rare geographically. Thankfully, despite the pre-storm hype, the damage and casualties were not extraordinary in any of the locations that it affected. I am on the fence on this one but lean toward exclusion. The Tenerife wildfire was not extraordinary enough to justify inclusion and has no further implications. The St. Petersburg bombing is too localized an event to include. The target of one of a notorious person's lesser known operatives does not lead to wider implications. Such events are unfortunately common worldwide, as well. The trade agreements are now probably too common to include. There may be more justification for the China-Solomons agreement as China extends its influence to other countries. I am not sure about the data communications agreement because I don't know the terms. If this has implications for privacy or international business, it might merit inclusion. Of course, all are notable enough to have articles. Donner60 (talk) 05:48, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to remove only the St Petersburg bombing and the Tenerife Wildfires

Since these two items are the most commonly scolded for inclusion in the above discussion, why don't we just reach a consensus on removing these two? InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 10:15, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support I support it, as I removed the items originally, including these two. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 21:25, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support the removal of the entries as proposed. Carter00000 (talk) 16:26, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I support the removal of these entries. 4me689 (talk) 17:12, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should Rupert Murdoch's retirement merit an entry?

Should Rupert Murdoch retiring as chairman of News Corp and Fox merit an entry for this page? I'm looking for a consensus, because I've seen the entry added, then removed, then added--by others, not me. Does Murdoch deserve an entry on this page, or could this just belong on an article about developments in the media industry in 2023 for example?

Murdoch is a powerful individual whose media empire spans Australia, the UK, and the United States, but on the other hand he's not extremely well-known or a politician holding elected office, and his companies have significant competition. He is unique because he & his family own his media companies, while most of his competitors are publicly traded corporations. Murdoch's retirement will also not have a direct impact regarding the content from his companies (i.e. Sky News Australia, the Wall Street Journal, Fox News, the Sun, etc.) and I can't recall similar entries if other billionaires retire from their powerful and well-known companies (i.e. Jeff Bezos retiring as CEO but staying as Chairman of the board of Amazon or Bill Gates stepping down from Microsoft's board). JohnAdams1800 (talk) 04:03, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong include. "Not extremely well-known" - eh? Apart from being the most powerful media magnate in human history? And no, he wasn't "a politician holding elected office", but the influence of his media over elections, and politics in general, has been undeniably huge. Wjfox2005 (talk) 12:24, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
include, it's a big news story, definitely belongs on this page. 4me689 (talk) 20:50, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Include. Murdoch was one of the most powerful people on the planet, and his son Lachlan will soon be too now that he's going to own it. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 03:28, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Borderline Exclude because we don't include when other CEOs step down from influential organizations as you mentioned with both Gates and Bezos, and it won't have an effect the day to day of those organizations in any capacity though I am open to inclusion if there are good enough arguments in favor of it. PaulRKil (talk) 14:14, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Gates and Bezos did not have the same impact that the Murdochs had on world affairs despite running larger companies. This is most likely due to their actions being more focused on their industries, which while presenting exponential benefits to the consumer, did not topple governments or come close to toppling governments the same way the Murdochs did. If you would prefer consistency however I am open to inclusion. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:17, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Its a hard one to gauge for me but you make a good point, Murdoch is probably the most powerful media tycoon since William Randolph Hearst. I'm open to inclusion on that. PaulRKil (talk) 14:15, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exclude - A person would have to be far more important than Murdoch is to justify his/her retirement being included as an "event". Deb (talk) 18:57, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should the 2023 Hanoi building fire be included?

Should the 2023 Hanoi building fire be included on the page? While the death toll seems to be relatively high for this type of accident, there does not seem to be any further impact, both locally and globally. I would exclude, and removed the entry, but it was later re-added by another editor. Carter00000 (talk) 14:18, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not really of note to the wider timeline of events, and has smaller due weight than other events both in impact and coverage. I would advocate for its exclusion for now. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:05, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exclude because it didn't have as much due weight locally, much less globally. It would merit an entry for 2023 in Vietnam or an article about fire safety disasters in 2023 due to its death toll, but not this page. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 17:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
exclude, this is not really that known by the General Public. 4me689 (talk) 02:14, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should the recent acquisitions by Cisco & Tapestry be included?

I note that user Wjfox2005 has removed two entries relating to recent acquisitions by Cisco & Tapestry.

The edit summaries for the removals don't seem to cite any consensus or policy which is readily apparent or documented.

  • Splunk isn't exactly a household name, and I heard nothing of this merger from any news outlet. So this entry just doesn't seem notable enough.
  • Totally irrelevant, boring and non-notable business event

Should these recent acquisitions by Cisco & Tapestry be included? Carter00000 (talk) 14:28, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Exclude. But I'd support their inclusion in 2023 in the United States. As far as I can tell, these events have received little or no coverage internationally (certainly not here in the UK). There might be a case for inclusion of the first one, due to its size. The second one is considerably less at $8.5bn, which I don't view as notable for 2023. Wjfox2005 (talk) 15:15, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Include. All four of the main entities (acquirer and acquired) involved in the two acquisitions are market leaders in their respective industries. Both industries are likely to be significantly impacted by these acquisitions. Carter00000 (talk) 15:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exclude. Of little interest to most of the world. Deb (talk) 15:50, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Include. It's frankly bullcrap to claim that Michael Kors, Coach, and Versace aren't notable based on both the older criteria and new due weight guidelines. Likewise with Cisco and to a lesser but still consequential extent Splunk. I do not think that previous commenters recognize the impact that either mega-merger involves, which while not being as big dollar-wise, absolutely shakes up two of the most prominent industries in the world today: cybersecurity and luxury goods. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:04, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"absolutely shakes up" – how, exactly? Who will it affect? Which countries, or aspects of society, etc.? I mean, maybe it does have an impact, and maybe I'm ignorant, but it wasn't at all clear from the entries you posted. Some additional explanation is needed (but in a concise way), for the layman. Mergers and acquisitions are happening all the time in the world of business, so what makes these events special enough to include on 2023? Wjfox2005 (talk) 06:26, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Wjfox2005 apologies for the late reply; been working on other things. Tackling Cisco/Splunk first: Well aside from the $28 billion price tag, a number which alone should merit some mention, this is the largest acquisition in the software field as of recent. Cisco and Splunk companies are major in an industry becoming more relevant by the day, especially considering that cybersecurity has been the focus of two of the last four new articles I've written myself (Scattered Spider which hacked MGM and Caesars, as well as the alleged 2023 Sony ransomware hack). Sony needs no elaboration, and Scattered Spider's attack in particular hit nearly every aspect of Las Vegas and everyone who has ever gambled at the two largest casino companies in the world, which is a LOT of people. MGM's hack also brought down BetMGM, which many in the US and the UK use to do their sports betting. All of this highlights the crucialness of the cybersecurity industry which you seem to have played down, and an acquisition of one of the largest companies in this sector is undoubtedly notable in world events. Just because you didn't get a CNN alert on something doesn't mean it's not notable or that notability per the DUE Weight guidelines is fulfilled. An argument which states that cybersecurity doesn't matter is inherently ignorant or against the industry.
As for Tapestry and Capri, the luxury market is generally Eurocentric. The two largest luxury companies are Kering and LVMH, and all are French houses which have started to eat up American companies like Tiffany and Company for LVMH and Maui Jim for Kering. Further consider that these brands are among the most recognized brands in the world; Louis Vuitton per Forbes is more recognizable than nearly every company in the world save for Big Tech companies, Disney, and Coca-Cola. Tapestry, Capri, LVMH and Kering control nearly every major luxury brand in the world today, save for Ralph Lauren, Prada, Rolex and Hermes. According to the SCMP and UBuy, Versace and Michael Kors (Capri) are the 6th and 7th most popular luxury brands in the world, and Coach New York (Tapestry) is the 10th. Anything big involving any of the top luxury brands in the world should be here as well. Again, while your personal opinion on luxury is free to disregard these fashion houses, it's BS to think that the globe at large doesn't focus on these brands.
As an ancillary point, not only are these corporations notable for their industry impact, but also have the eyes of Wall Street and traders worldwide focused on them. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:20, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well thanks, I appreciate the more detailed explanation. I'm slightly more open to inclusion now. Wjfox2005 (talk) 19:44, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Who cares about some arbitrary and mundane corporate acquisition! Why is this in the summary of the year 2023??? Cisco or Tapestry (who even are these companies..?) acquiring another company no one heard of or cares about is of no interest to the general public, neither is some large fashion company acquiring another company. This is completely unlike the advancement of AI technology or the one or two companies pushing forward revolutionary products to the public. Please get rid of the commercial acquisitions. This was clearly included by some self-important investment banker or corporate lawyer who's trying to justify that their monkey-scribe work has any real importance to the history of human beings. It does not, and it should not be included in the SUMMARY of 2023 which has far more important things to be mentioned. Unless they are historical game-changing mergers or acquisitions which fundamentally change the way we live, they do not even warrant a footnote in a wiki article about 2023 - this adds NOTHING to the collective conscience. 2605:B100:739:20E:914C:4766:ED68:214E (talk) 20:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exclude. Not every business acquisition/dealing needs to be included and these in particular seem to not impact much of the world outside of these businesses, reflected by the little news coverage. Yeoutie (talk) 14:15, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exclude these are acquisitions, not mergers, and I don't think they're that notable on a global scale. PaulRKil (talk) 13:27, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Include Tapestry, Exclude Cisco, Versace is a big name company which is under the ownership of Tapestry, so Tapestry should be included, Exclude the Cisco acquisition because outside of the business world this was not covered that much, im open to maybe discussing inclusion requirements for business buyouts/acquisitions in a future discussion or RFC. 4me689 (talk) 04:53, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should the 2023 Mastung bombing be included?

I note that user JohnAdams1800 has removed an entry relating to the 2023 Mastung bombing.

The edit summaries for the removals don't seem to cite any consensus or policy which is readily apparent or documented.

  • The September 29th Pakistan bombing had a significant death toll and importance (it occurred on an Islamic holiday), but doesn't have enough importance internationally for this article.

Should this event be included? Carter00000 (talk) 17:58, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Exclude, as I removed it because such events routinely and tragically occur around the world, including on days of national importance and religious significance. This event merits an entry in the article about 2023 in Pakistan, but not this page because it has smaller due weight than other events in coverage and impact. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 21:06, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Borderline exclude, Yes true that this does have a big death toll, but I don't know if the general public knows it that much outside of the area affected, tho I am open to changing my mind if a good argument is told. 4me689 (talk) 02:17, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Borderline include. There aren't policies or guidelines aside from consensus which support exclusion here. This is a very high death toll compared to most other events, so I would say that the due weight guidelines for now would support a weak argument for inclusion. I would be open to changing my opinion if a better argument for exclusion can be made. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:23, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Any appetite for combining the Mustung and Hangu mosque bombing in the same entry as they both occurred on the same day in Pakistan and both had religious undertones? Would perhaps solidify the notability of these religious terror attacks. Example: September 29 – During Mawlid celebrations in Pakistan, terrorists bomb a festival and a mosque, resulting in the deaths of 65 people. Yeoutie (talk) 16:59, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, we should add it back in in this style. DementiaGaming (talk) 02:47, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support this course of action. I think merging the two events into one entry is a good idea and would definitely help solidify the notability of the entry. Carter00000 (talk) 16:32, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nobel Prizes Rationale

I'm curious on the thoughts in adding Nobel Prizes Rationale to the the Nobel Prizes section which I just did here. In my opinion it's an improvement to the section because it gives you the reason why they were nominated in the first place giving more context to that area. I'm thinking of putting this on WP years talk, but I don't feel like putting that on there yet. 4me689 (talk) 21:17, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should 100% be included. However, now that you've started this discussion here, I suspect we'll see a repeat of previous years' debates on whether Nobel Prizes should even be mentioned at all on year pages. Sadly there seems to be a small, hardcore minority of anti-intellectual editors, ferociously opposed to their inclusion (perhaps they just hate science, humanity, and progress?). I hope the sensible majority of people resist these efforts to dumb-down the page again. Wjfox2005 (talk) 06:36, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
this section isn't about the whole Nobel Peace Prize section, just on people's thoughts on adding the Rationale to the section. 4me689 (talk) 06:41, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your presumption that editors in opposition to their inclusion might "just hate science, humanity and progress" is telling. To slander them as a collective as being "anti-intellectual" is even more so. Assume good faith and remain civil.
I oppose their inclusion because they are awarded by a private, non-governmental organisation. In response, I’ve been told that they represent the pinnacle of human achievement. Which begs the question: why are these fields of human achievement of more value than any or all others? Why not include the Academy Awards for best actor and best actress in each year’s article? We should not provide any organisation with such special treatment. Asperthrow (talk) 19:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Put them in their own section. They can fit on a timeline, but given that it's gonna look like October 1 is one prize, October 2 is another, and October 3 is third. I would suggest that we even consider putting awards separated from the heading. Think like this:

Awards
Academics

Just an idea. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:13, 3 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support the inclusion of rationale for the winners, but the rationales should be brief and include additional citations if necessary. Not all entries may need a rationale (i.e. the 2023 chemistry and physics prizes for original discoveries) or may already have one (i.e. the 2023 Physiology or Medicine entry). JohnAdams1800 (talk) 21:56, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support for the inclusion Noble Prize winners and for rationales for each winner, as the entries seem incomplete without the rationales. Carter00000 (talk) 16:30, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Collage Discussions

Final image for the collage

October is here, and we have already come to the consensus for seven images on the 2023 collage, as you can see on the edit page. There have been two major conflicts within the past month that are both candidates for the eighth picture on the collage, both with major implications. The first one is the September Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. It only resulted in the death of around 440 people and only persisted for one day, but ended in the inception of major protests within Armenia, the egression of over 100,000 Armenians (one-third of the population of the region) from Nagorno-Karabakh, and the partition of the region unto Azerbaijan.

The second preference is the Gaza-Israeli engagement. As of this post, it has started today, but has already ended the lives of of 530 people and may amplify into a full-scale war within the next few days. However, unlike the Nagorno-Karabakh war, there is less peril or certainty for genocide like the Nagorno-Karabakh situation.

Both regions have a lengthy, significant history to them, and both are favorable for displaying on the collage. There is also two months left to the year, so if another major world event transpires, we may have to remove an event. I added the Hawai'i wildfires as a image to the collage, so I affirm that I am entitled to say that it might be a candidate for not being critical enough to be on the collage if such a major event happens. Let me know what you guys think. DementiaGaming (talk) 00:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, because it likely ended the conflict (1988-2023) after the 2023 Azerbaijan offensive and the dissolution of the Republic of Artsakh on January 1, 2024. It's very specific to this year and had a major impact with the exodus of over 100,000 Armenians and the deaths of about 440 people.
The Gaza-Israeli conflict is part of the wider Arab-Israeli conflict, which has been ongoing since 1948 and has its own long and detailed articles. I don't think it work well for a collage for just 2023, though it is the first time Israel has declared war since the 1973 Yom-Kippur War. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 20:21, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What if the conflict becomes a major war that results in thousands of deaths DementiaGaming (talk) 20:57, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would say the Gaza Israel conflict. While it is part of an existing conflict, this is a major escalation and has resulted in the first declaration of war by Israel in fifty years. As I’m typing this, Israel is also seemingly launching an offensive against Hezbollah in Lebanon. To John Adams’ point, the same could be said about the Azerbaijan conflict as it’s part of a decades long post soviet conflict. This is definitely a larger global event. PaulRKil (talk) 14:44, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, I agree. Hundreds of innocent women and children are being massacred by Hamas. DementiaGaming (talk) 03:00, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Per consensus, I have removed the Hawai'i wildfires and added both conflicts. I will ask The ganymedian to do this collage, as he said we would do it. DementiaGaming (talk) 18:18, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, we might as well add two or three images for the Israeli conflict, i.e. the hostages, the music festival massacre, the battle of Sderot... DementiaGaming (talk) 23:51, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't. The ganymedian is one of a handful of contributors who seem interested in little beyond getting their graphics into the public eye. Deb (talk) 18:59, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Collage suggestion

The Israel-Hamas war has dominated this year's news, it seems to me that Jesus will return sooner or later. I think we should add 3 images relating to the war on the collage. Certainly, we will add 2 pictures, but do you guys think we should add 3? DementiaGaming (talk) 20:43, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Stick to 2 images, because the war began in October and is part of the wider Israeli-Palestinian conflict which has been ongoing since 1948. As stated above, I support one image from the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict in the 2023 collage (i.e. the exodus of 100,000 Armenians) in the collage. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 21:49, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Collage Suggestion
File:Isr vs pla war.jpg

@DementiaGaming: You say that the specific image suggestions can be found at the edit page. Where is that? (found the list of events at The ganymedian's talk page). I would like to discuss that we begin making our collages using the multiple image template, mainly because images can can be viewed in a higher resolution when clicked. Here's a draft from me:

  • International Criminal Court arrest warrants for Vladimir Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova
  • Flight of Nagorno-Karabakh Armenians
  • 2023 Israel-Hamas war
  • 2023 Chinese balloon incident
  • 2023 United States banking crisis
  • Cyclone Daniel
  • 2023 Turkey-Syria earthquake
Marginataen (talk) 20:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You can find the images by clicking "edit" on this 2023 page. These are the consensus images
Collage Suggestion
File:2023 in a nutshell.jpg

DementiaGaming (talk) 21:55, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@DementiaGaming: I'll just comment on my choice of events. I didn't include Putin's arrest warrant. It's basically just a continuation of the war in Ukraine and its not like he was going to vist the U.S. hadn't it been issued.
I suggest including the War in Sudan instead. It was a war that started in 2023 and was caused the deaths of tens of thousands and above 1 million refugees. I've also included Charles coronation. I belive it was a huge event. If Israel launched a full on ground invasion of Gaza, some picture of that would probably replace the one of a Hamas missile, albeit speculation.
Something that might also be worth considering is the Wagner Group rebellion; the first real blow to Putin's power in 20 years Marginataen (talk) 10:28, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The reason we included the arrest warrant was the reason behind it - over 700,000 children have been unlawfully deported and transferred by Russia since 2022, which escalated this year. I think, for that reason, it is more important than the war in Sudan. It is the first time they have issued an arrest warrant for a world leader, anyway. DementiaGaming (talk) 11:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've now made this proposal in which I have included (clockwise, from top left) the following eight event:

My suggestion:
Collage Suggestion
ArionStar (talk) 11:51, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The rest of the things that have been proposed, and from the perspective of "finalizing" the year....meh. _-_Alsor (talk) 20:22, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Events that clearly change the history of the year 2023 (Brazilian attack, Turkish earthquake, Chinese balloon, Israeli war, Hawaiian fires) shouldn't be scraped out. ArionStar (talk) 23:59, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Two of these events are domestic: nobody was killed and only 84 people were arrested in the Brazilian Congress attack, and nobody outside Brazil was aware of it. I guess the Hawaii wildfires did have an impact on most Pacific countries, but the death toll of the wildfires was only 97 DementiaGaming (talk) 22:29, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I further note that the Chinese balloon incident, while involved more then one country, was essentially a non-event hyped up by the media. The event had no lasting effect or impact on anything in the end. Carter00000 (talk) 09:26, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"nobody outside Brazil was aware of it"...it's clear that we don't live in the same world. I suppose there will be little difference between what you say and your opinion about the assault on the capitol.
And totally agree with Carter on Chinese balloon incident. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:37, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Capital attack was indeed international news and it's absolutely wrong to say that nobody outside of Brazil head of it. But still, I don't think it should be included in the collage Marginataen (talk) 13:43, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize, I worded my message wrong: Nearly nobody outside Brazil had been impacted heavily by it. DementiaGaming (talk) 12:13, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@DementiaGaming: I disagree; just see Reactions to the 2023 Brazilian Congress attack#International. The article is also in good condition, well referenced, and by the way, there is the article Artworks damaged, destroyed or stolen during the 2023 Brazilian Congress attack too. ArionStar (talk) 15:17, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a new draft. Thoughts?
Collage Suggestion
Clockwise, from top left: Israeli IDF forces during ground operations in the Gaza Strip after the breakout of the Israel–Hamas war • After increased tension, Yevgeny Prigozhin (pictured), leader of the Wagner Group, stages a one day rebellion against Russia's leadership, dying in a plane crash two months later • Azerbaijani offensive in Nagorno-Karabakh • Charles III and his wife Camilla are crowned as king and queen of the United Kingdom and the other Commonwealth realms • Refugees flee to Chad from a new war in Sudan • Consequent to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the flags of NATO and Finland are raised ouside the Finnish parliament as the country joins the alliance • The Storm Daniel creates havoc across the Mediterranean • Destroyed buildings in the Hatay Province of Turkey after Turkey and Syria are hit by a series of major earthquakes
  • I nominate the inclusion of the following events for consideration (with some events repeated from previous nominations).
  1. Croatia adopts the euro and joins the Schengen Area
  2. 2023 Turkey–Syria earthquake,
  3. Northern Ireland Protocol
  4. High Seas Treaty
  5. Iran and Saudi Arabia agree to resume diplomatic relations, Acquisition of Credit Suisse by UBS
  6. IPCC Sixth Assessment Report
  7. Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO
  8. Developments relating to Global Warming
  9. 2023 Israel–Hamas war
Carter00000 (talk) 09:57, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I only support the 2023 Turkey-Syria earthquake and the 2023 Israel-Hamas war. Those two events have received international coverage and have extremely high due weight due to their death toll and severity. The other events are important, but are not highlights for this year in my opinion. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 18:01, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. DementiaGaming (talk) 19:13, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
the last photo I would post here about the Israel-Hamas war is of two politicians, one not even directly involved in the conflic; the (mutual) bombings, the Hamas assassinations in Israel or the escape of the Gazans is by far the most important and remarkable thing..... _-_Alsor (talk) 14:58, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support this sentiment and propose that a image showing the missile trails in the sky be included, given their recognisability and the likely association with the conflict. Carter00000 (talk) 16:06, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Either we show an image of bombed Gaza or the atrocities by Hamas. By chosing either, we sort of take a stance/frame it. However, this event is the one most likely to change before the end of the year, so I would rather wait. Marginataen (talk) 20:54, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. _-_Alsor (talk) 22:09, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Collage depreciation

At Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Years#Lead_image, a discussion on whether to depreciate collages in general in going on. Please share your thoughts.--Marginataen (talk) 21:36, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Historical accuracy on this page

Alright, so the news about Israel formally declaring war on Hamas on October 8th has now been merged back in with the news of the initial Hamas attack on October 7th two times now. This is clearly misleading readers. You wouldn't change the specific dates of declarations of war against Germany and Japan in WW2, right? I see no valid reason to merge the two items, one is the attack and the other is a formal declaration of war in response. Two seperate events on seperate days. How is this even an issue? It should be noted that the main article includes the declaration of war under October 8th. GWA88 (talk) 05:53, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Merge. Given that the two events are directly connected to each other, with one being the direct consequence of the other. The events also occurred in a very short time frame, on consecutive days, within less then 48 hours. The general practice on this page is to reduce the number of entries, given the wide range of events the page potentially covers, so a split in the entries which you propose is not normally done. If needed, the sperate dating can be noted in the merged entry.
It is also suggested you moderate your tone. Accusations of clearly misleading readers, issues with historical accuracy, and asking How is this even an issue?, are both unhelpful and uncivil, especially when you know consensus is against you. Carter00000 (talk) 06:15, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is no consensus established yet. That's why I've started the discussion. GWA88 (talk) 06:40, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
When you are reverted twice by two different people, you can consider the general consensus to be against you, unless a formal discussion results in a different outcome. You may review WP:EDITCON for more information. Carter00000 (talk) 06:44, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note. It should be noted that even if the events occurred in a very short time frame, on consecutive days, within less then 48 hours, that's still seperate events on seperate days. General practice or not the fact remains that the declaration of war by the Security Cabinet of Israel happened on October 8th, 2023. GWA88 (talk) 07:01, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin McCarthy removal?

I'm curious why the recent events in the US house haven't been mentioned on this page. I feel like it's important to include given its rarity and impact on US politics.

I'm not a frequent Wikipedia editor, but I feel like American politics is rarely mentioned in these disambiguation pages? I understand not wanting Western politics to overrun the wiki, especially given the makeup of its editor base, but I think there's been a small over-correction. Or maybe I'm just biased myself lol :p Beccabecco (talk) 00:44, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin McCarthy's removal was purely domestic politics and belongs in 2023 in the United States. Wjfox2005 (talk) 13:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is the article about 2023 for the whole world, not the United States or any other individual country. Only national events that have enough due weight internationally are featured on this page. General elections for individual countries are regularly featured on this page, but not domestic political events unless they are important enough to have a direct international impact. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 21:52, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I second the comments made by Wjfox2005 and JohnAdams1800 - to include this event on the main 2023 page would be Americentrism, particularly as if this exact event happened in any other country, nobody would raise a peep/bring this up for debate at all. We have 2023 in the United States for this. TheScrubby (talk) 05:28, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would strongly disagree with the above comments and say VERY strong include the ouster of Kevin McCarthy. Just because 2023 in the United States exists doesn't mean that international notability should be reigned in yet again, see User:InvadingInvader/Against international notability. The exclusion of Kevin McCarthy's removal represents a failure to follow the Due Weight policies. Considering that this was the vote heard around the world, and reported by numerous sources including but not limited to NHK in Japan, DW in Germany, Al Jazeera and ArabNews from the Arab World, ABC in Australia, and The Wire in India, and further considering that all of these sources list the ouster as unprecedented, this domestic event has high importance in world history. To respond particularly to @TheScrubby in saying that the removal of Kevin McCarthy is Americentrism, what about Liz Truss in 2022? She was not too much more notable than McCarthy. One could say that her 45 days being included but not McCarthy's 270 days in the following year could actually be British-centrism. Moreover, if we include her but not McCarthy, that's not preventing Americentrism. It's fostering Anti-Americanism. May I remind you that Wikipedia articles are written from a neutral point of view, not biasing in favor of, or against, any country. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:45, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I unequivocally reject any notion of “anti-Americanism” when I stand against Americentrism (and will continue to call out and stand against with such blatant examples, such as this). Kevin McCarthy was not a head of government or state, and his international equivalents would never be seriously considered for this page. This does not include Liz Truss; there is absolutely zero equivalence with Truss, who was Prime Minister and head of government of one of the world’s most powerful and influential countries. I’ve given my two cents, as has Wjfox2005 and JohnAdams1800, and I’m not about to get into any habit of WP:BLUDGEONING, so I’m not going to comment further on this thread. TheScrubby (talk) 23:35, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
VERY strong include. Hello, as someone we in living in Denmark, Europe, I can testify that McCarthy's removal was breaking news and I know – as @InvadingInvader has pointed out – that the same was the case in many other countries. Both Danish analysts (for instance here use Google Translate) as well as CNN here has pointed out that I might greatly impact U.S. aid to Ukraine. Here is also a mention in the mainstream Japanese newspaper Yomiuri Shimbun. I believe it should absolutely be reinserted into the article. Marginataen (talk) 19:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Include, per the reasons given by those supporting inclusion above. Carter00000 (talk) 09:45, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've now put an updated version back in Marginataen (talk) 18:59, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also see the recent RFC on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years which actually ruled that we should be basing inclusion off of due weight. Another discussion on that page presently is actually discussing whether or not we are firmly deprecating international notability, and as Carter suggested below, whether it already was deprecated. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:28, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Exclude. McCarthy's removal is not 'important in world history' and I have to agree with above that any comparison with Truss, the leader of a country, is ridiculous. Agree that this is a perfect entry on the 2023 in the United States for being a purely domestic political event. Yeoutie (talk) 14:31, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I feel compelled to again remind participants that inclusion is not based on any arbitrary criteria but on the Due Weight policies, per WP:DUE. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 15:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gaza Hospital

I feel as though we should discuss whether to keep the hospital explosion in Gaza on here. Many sources, including official U.S. and Israeli reports say the explosion was caused by the Islamic Jihad, and really only affected the parking lot of the hospital. It seems more and more unlikely that 500+ people were killed by this. The ganymedian (talk) 15:19, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that the death toll is definitely under 500 from the information at this point, with it being as low as 50 by some estimates. I wonder if there is an argument for inclusion based on the international condemnation and reactions in its aftermath? Yeoutie (talk) 16:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is absolutely no argument for leaving it as is. It didn’t happen the way it says it did, it should at the very least be changed to reflect the reality of the situation. Even just adding something like “the story was later confirmed as false” would be a great improvement. GevBen (talk) 20:05, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Now that you say this, it makes me question weather it should be put on here. The death toll estimates mostly put it lower than the music festival massacre, so I take back my other comment. I feel like we should wait, though. DementiaGaming (talk) 12:50, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Seems reasonable as a second image for the Gaza war. DementiaGaming (talk) 23:30, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Considering the fact that this story was thoroughly debunked, it’s an actual outrage that it is still up in this article. I thought this website was dedicated to delivering information, not putting up random false stories to further some agenda. I don’t want to just delete it unilaterally, but the longer it stays there the more potential damage it can cause. It needs to be removed ASAP. GevBen (talk) 08:39, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It has simply been such a covered story by reliable sources that I believe it should have a mention. However, it should of course be said that initial reports were wrong Marginataen (talk) 19:43, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have modified the wording of the entry to include a range of casualty estimates. Wjfox2005 (talk) 08:35, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of Tornado outbreak of March 24–27, 2023

I recently added the Tornado outbreak of March 24–27, 2023, joined with the 2023 Rolling Fork–Silver City tornado to the list. This inclusion was reverted 22 hours later by Wjfox2005, saying it belonged in the 2023 in the United States article, which it already was. My inclusion was based on two parts: (1) the notability, which included local, state, and national responses, including the US National Guard being activated & (2) the shear size of media attention. It is common to include large, single-country disasters in the yearly article (not just country yearly article) if there is an extreme media attention. A few Google searches indicate over 500 media articles (Google news tab) from this event, just Googling “Rolling Fork tornado” (strongest/deadliest tornado of the event) and “Amory tornado” (Just one of 3 different EF3 tornadoes). The disaster article (parent) did appear on Wikipedia’s ITN section. While it wasn’t outside the United States, several international sources (dozens from those 2 Google searches only) came up, including this one by News Corp Australia, based on the opposite side of the world. Notability of the outbreak/stand-alone EF4 tornado article warrant inclusion on this list. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 20:09, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Wjfox2005: I'm wanting to ping you again, since you have reverted the edit once again. Can you discuss it here? The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 05:29, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"...local, state, and national responses" – exactly. Not international. If the tornadoes had occurred along the U.S.-Canada or U.S.-Mexico borders, or if some sort of international response had occurred (e.g. overseas aid), you might have a case. Death toll of 26 is hardly notable for 2023. There are myriad other disasters around the world this year, some with much higher death tolls, that weren't included. Given your username, I suspect you may have a bias here ;-) Wjfox2005 (talk) 05:57, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There wasn’t an international aid response, but there was international media response. Independent in the UK did an article about one of the tornadoes, not even the deadliest or strongest. Yet, it received international media attention. If this list truly requires an international response, then I can go on a short deletion spree since there is a good amount of single country events. I implore you do self-revert and re-add the tornado outbreak. Article from Australia and here is one from India. It is clear that there is hundreds of news articles about this tornado outbreak and dozens of international news articles from several countries. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 06:18, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Wjfox2005 This is a personal attack, Given your username, I suspect you may have a bias here ;-). and not helpful for this discussion. Carter00000 (talk) 09:24, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I further note Wjfox2005 edit summary This was a DOMESTIC event. No international notability. Death toll wasn't high enough for inclusion on 2023. Cheers!. The use of such criteria was recently deprecated by consensus, following a ANI filing and sitewide RFC. Carter00000 (talk) 09:20, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If that's the consensus now, then okay. And sorry for my personal attack @WeatherWriter. Feel free to re-add the entry. Wjfox2005 (talk) 10:18, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Monterey Park shooting, Brovary helicopter crash & 2023 Brussels shooting

I note that Marginataen has recently added the following entries:

Are these event notable enough for inclusion on this page? Carter00000 (talk) 09:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, the mass shooting in Monterey Park might actually be on the verge Marginataen (talk) 14:43, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Only the Ukrainian helicopter crash, as the other two events don't have enough due weight internationally. The Ukrainian helicopter crash received international coverage and had a high death toll including a member of Ukraine's government. The shooting in California is a domestic event that is quite common in the United States, while the Brussels shooting doesn't have a high enough death toll and didn't have much international coverage outside of Europe. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 17:56, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I support this proposal to only include the Ukrainian helicopter crash. Carter00000 (talk) 18:08, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I support only including the helicopter crash. Marginataen (talk) 22:02, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Only the Ukrainian helicopter crash should be included. Wjfox2005 (talk) 10:56, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think that only the Brovary crash meets the due weight policy. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 00:06, 27 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Remove the Ukrainian helicopter crash due to DWP. So, now we're adding random helicopter crashes with low death tolls. It almost fits an entry, but not quite. DementiaGaming (talk) 18:56, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Langarud drug rehabilitation center fire--Merit and Citation

Does this event merit an entry on this article? I'm looking for a consensus; I'm not very familiar with the event, but I haven't seen this widely reported anywhere (i.e. Aljazeera, the New York Times, Washington Post, Euronews, AP News, etc.) except for Fars News Agency (Iran's state media) and it seems to be purely local.

I personally oppose the entry for now, as it seems to lack due weight--I haven't seen it being widely reported on any reputable news site and hasn't evoked any major reactions in Iran itself from the government.

Also can someone add a citation for the event if we decide to keep it? There's no citation for the event. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 02:13, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Exclude. A domestic incident, and the casualty count isn't notable enough for inclusion on 2023. If, say, 100 or more had died, and there were some international element (such as multiple nationalities among the deaths), it might be worth including. Also, the editor doesn't help their case by omitting a citation. Wjfox2005 (talk) 09:34, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Change to the DMY format

I would also like to suggest changing the date format of this article to the DMY format (e.g. 6 June 2020 as opposed to June 6, 2020).The DMY format seems more international and more suitable for a "global" article like. Also DMY simply makes more sense as it goes from smallest to highest.

On the project page, I've presented a similar proposal to use DMY in general for articles on "generic" years, but would also like it create consensus for it specifically on this article about 2023.

. Marginataen (talk) 21:39, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On the one hand, I would support this, as it's more international as you say. But going through the entire history of humanity and changing each entry would surely be a mammoth task. Unless there's a quick fix? Wjfox2005 (talk) 10:45, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello. I would at the very least personally go through all articles until 1900. There is no policy saying all year articles – especially only for a period while the transition happens – has to use the same date format as long as it is consistent within the article itself. However, this discussion is only about the changing it on this specific article about the year 2023. I would personally do it should consensus arise. Are anyone against this change for this specific article? Or just in general for articles about "generic" years? Marginataen (talk) 11:44, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support and apply to every Year article, though I personally doubt it’ll get up. It is frankly bizarre that we persist with the mdy date format on the main Year pages when so few countries use that format. TheScrubby (talk) 01:01, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have now changed it. Marginataen (talk) 21:19, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Firefangledfeathers Please restore the DMY date format that you removed without consensus. Marginataen (talk) 14:36, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Sorry I missed this section. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:41, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't particularly object to changing all the year articles to DMY, which is the topic of discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years#Change to the DMY date format, but I do think changing just this one article to DMY isn't worth the loss of consistency. As far as I'm aware, every other year article uses MDY. For now, I oppose this change. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:58, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that it should be agreed to change all generic year articles to DMY. Thanks for pointing that out. @TheScrubby @Wjfox2005 Marginataen (talk) 18:34, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A discussion is ongoing at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Date format for year article Marginataen (talk) 21:23, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The format was changed back to MDY without consensus. Currently, there are no standard about consistently in date format across year articles. That is what I am trying to do. The last discussion got messy and I'll probably start a new one about it one the village pump. In the mean time, 2023 should be changed back to DMY Marginataen (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should the 2023 NYU Langone Health attempt be added?

Basically the worlds first successful complete eye transplant. It is a major medical breakthrough and I believe deserves a mention. Jake11223344 (talk) 13:30, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say borderline exclude because while it is major and I included it in another article, it isn't something that has an impact on every human being in the same way as the first successful COVID vaccine or the discovery of antibiotics did. Also, the patient hasn't had any vision return to the donor eye. If it did restore vision, I'd also be open to including it. PaulRKil (talk) 14:37, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I thought I didn't know what it was, but now I realise I've heard of it. "2023 NYU Langone Health attempt" was not exactly meaningful. Deb (talk) 14:43, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning towards include. It's a notable milestone in the medical field. Wjfox2005 (talk) 14:46, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would say include, as it is a major medical breakthrough and received international news coverage. It has sufficient due weight to merit entry on the page about 2023. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 03:08, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Include–This is a milestone medical breakthrough and it is worth including in the article. Nagae Iku (talk) 06:24, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should the Operations 1027 & 1107 from the Myanmar Civil War be added?

The rebel groups from the Myanmar Civil war have launched what are reported as successful counteroffensives, named Operation 1027 and Operation 1107, in the Myanmar civil war. I'm looking for a consensus on whether the counteroffensive should be added, as I believe this has sufficient due weight to merit an entry on this page, because this is a major ongoing armed conflict that also indirectly involves Russia, China, and India which are providing support to Myanmar's military junta. I have one citation (below) and can add more if the consensus is in favor of including this.

One thing is that I'm not sure which date(s) to add for this event, and perhaps they should be added after the counteroffensives have ended because it's ongoing and territorial control can rapidly change--the National Unity Government & rebels could gain additional territory, or the Myanmar military junta could retake territory for example.

Citation: [1] JohnAdams1800 (talk) 17:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why was my entry for the death of Henry Kissinger removed?

He was a key historical figure and should be on the list. Jake11223344 (talk) 13:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because, as was explained in the edit summary, Deaths are no longer included in recent Year articles but are included in Deaths in 2023. Deb (talk) 18:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hello
@Deb. Would you be so kind to link me to the discussion where that decision was taken? Marginataen (talk) 19:29, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Check out the first discussion here and you can follow the links listed there to find out more. Even if you don't agree with it, you won't be able to include any deaths without consensus on this Talk page, and so far User:Jake11223344 hasn't attempted to obtain that. Deb (talk) 13:37, 3 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of File:U-2 Pilot over Central Continental United States (7644960) (cropped).jpg

Per a discussion on WikiProject Years, every image for this article needs a unique consensus for it, so here is the discussion for this image. Should this image be added in the February events section of the article?

Inclusion of File:2023 Coronation Balcony.jpg

Per a discussion on WikiProject Years, every image for this article needs a unique consensus for it, so here is the discussion for this image. Should this image be added in the May events section of the article?

Betelgeuse occultation

Shouldn't we include the Betelgeuse occultation that will occur on December 12, 01:08 UTC? Aminabzz (talk) 09:19, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, but it can definitely go in 2023 in science. Wjfox2005 (talk) 10:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Video of Hamas Attack

I am don’t think we should have a video of murdered civilians from Oct. 7 on the main 2023 page. Thoughts? The ganymedian (talk) 18:01, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Fishbein, Emily; Hkawng, Jaw Tu; Awng, Zau Myet (3 November 2023). "Northern offensive brings 'new energy' to Myanmar's anti-coup resistance". Reuters. Retrieved 6 November 2023.
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