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September 6

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Category:Radiological weapon

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:47, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per Wikipedia:Category names, names of set categories should be plural. Ibadibam (talk) 23:49, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ibadibam, yes.--Arbnos (talk) 01:02, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Makes sense Ibadibam (talk · contribs). Iazyges (talk) 05:06, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Film speculative fiction

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: selective merge to Category:Speculative fiction films. It has already been moved by User:Arbnos from the nominated title to Category:Speculative fiction film, so I will merge from there where necessary. – Fayenatic London 22:26, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Recently created category that is redundant to Category:Speculative fiction films. Ibadibam (talk) 23:15, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ibadibam, it is genre.--Arbnos (talk) 01:01, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ibadibam, see https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q9583669 and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2973181 --Arbnos (talk) 01:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not getting any meaningful Google results for "film speculative fiction". As far as I can tell, you coined the term yourself when you created that label on WikiData. I take it you were making a literal translation of Kinofantastika, which might translate better as "fantastique film", speculative fiction film", or maybe just "fantasy film". Help us understand: does kinofantastika differ in any way from speculative fiction, except for its culture and language of origin? Ibadibam (talk) 01:19, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ibadibam, it is genre. Similarly Category:Experimental film contains Category:Experimental filmmakers, Category:Experimental film festivals.--Arbnos (talk) 13:03, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ibadibam, title is I do not care what.--Arbnos (talk) 13:05, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Difference is exist. John Clute propopse introdice term fantastika into English for good reason… But this isnn't for category. --Be nt all (talk) 01:56, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very grateful for this link, which does a great job defining the term. I should point out that the definition offered in that article, "...the armamentarium of the fantastic in literature as a whole, encompassing science fiction, Fantasy, fantastic horror and their various subgenres; but not Proto SF.", is very similar to Wikipedia's definition for speculative fiction: "...a broad category of narrative fiction that includes elements, settings and characters created out of imagination and speculation rather than based on reality and everyday life. It encompasses the genres of science fiction, fantasy, science fantasy, horror, alternative history, and magic realism." From this I take it that fantastika is a synonym for speculative fiction, and as such should not be segregated. Following the closure of this discussion, I will take steps to merge the entries on WikiData. Ibadibam (talk) 23:32, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Rob Sinden, Category:Speculative fiction films is subcategory for Category:Films by genre. And Category:Film speculative fiction is subcategory for Category:Film genres.--Arbnos (talk) 14:18, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Film speculative fiction does not make sense and seems to be very poorly structured anyway. As Category:Films by genre is a subcat of Category:Film genres, Category:Speculative fiction films is included. This category is not needed. --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:23, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Rob Sinden, WP:DIFFUSE.--Arbnos (talk) 15:29, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't address the majority of my concern. You've created a nonsense-named, duplicate category and filled it with an incoherent jumble of articles without paying any mind to a structured category tree. --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:49, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Judges of Supreme Court of Sierra Leone

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Should someone find some information in the future which would support using "Judges" in preference to "Justices", we can have a new nomination to change that word back. (From an English common law perspective, which is the system SL has adopted (or had imposed on it, depending on the POV), I think the terms are more or less interchangeable. In some jurisdictions, judges of superior courts are called "justices", while judges of inferior courts are called "judges". The SC of SL is a superior court, so "Justice" seems relatively safe to me.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 01:15, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: At the very least, there's a missing article in the current name. I propose using the most common format in the parent category Category:National supreme court judges but am obviously open to other suggestions. Pichpich (talk) 19:52, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Major US cities

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename all. Consensus is clear that the categories should match the article titles (among other reasons). -- Tavix (talk) 20:57, 8 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming:
Rationale: Per names of articles about each of these cities. See also recent discussion, where this was decided about Seattle-related categories. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 16:06, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The following are previous discussions related to this issue:

Will soon notify all the participants in the 2 most recent; pinging the other participants from the previous two: @Andrewaskew, Benkenobi18, BrownHairedGirl, Mayumashu, Qetuth, Richhoncho, and Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars:. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 16:12, 6 September 2016 (UTC) [reply]

  • Support rename, per nom. --Dэя-Бøяg 16:18, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, following the Seattle precedent. For those who may not recognize this group of cities, they're all listed in the AP Stylebook as not needing state designations, making them an exception to WP:USPLACE (hence the titles without the state name). --BDD (talk) 16:20, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 6, 2016; 16:20 (UTC)
  • Oppose Don't recall what I stated earlier, but I would oppose dropping the state names. Would rather be consistent for clarity purposes than remove something that may be redundant.Benkenobi18 (talk) 16:24, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per main articles, per WP:USPLACE which makes these cities an explicit exception and per Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 17#Seattle. Timrollpickering (talk) 16:27, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per consistency, and as I said in the Seattle discussion, we should be making wikipedia easier to use for more people, not less. I don't see how removing the state (or not having them on articles) achieves that. Kbdank71 16:49, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    It makes it easier because in most cases, category names match article names. Deviating from that risks articles being placed in red categories. --BDD (talk) 17:55, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Changing a category to match a less helpful article name doesn't make things easier, it just makes the encyclopedia less useful. You yourself said For those who may not recognize this group of cities, so you recognize that there are readers who would benefit from these being city, state. As for red categories, won't having some articles/categories as just city and some are city, state cause that problem as well? Kbdank71 18:29, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    For those who "may not recognize this group of cities", things can be made much clearer by moving all US city articles (except those with ambiguous titles, obviously) from "City, State" to "City" title. You know, setting them up the same way as nearly every other city article on Wikipedia. In all, if anyone gets confused, it's not the fault of this proposal (which simply follows the existing guidelines), it's the fault of the abomination which is WP:USPLACE. Just sayin'...—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); September 6, 2016; 18:48 (UTC)
    First of all, I do agree with Ëzhiki above. But I should clarify that the statement of mine you referred to was really saying "For editors who may not know why this nomination has these specific cities", i.e., to head off any boosterism or bickering about the relative significance of these or other cities. Apologies for not making this clear. --BDD (talk) 20:48, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Changing a category to match a less helpful article name doesn't make things easier" Sure it does: it forces these conversation about article names into RM article discussions on the article talk a where they belong. The purpose of CFD category discussions should not be to undermine and second guess the decisions made in the main articles. I think there is a potentially strong argument that the AP Style Guide is designed for American readers and Wikipedia has a global audience so we should use state names across the board but there is nothing about that argument that justifies having split naming conventions for main articles versus categories. RevelationDirect (talk) 21:15, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hong Kong pan-democrats

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: This is a followup to WP:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 June 3#Splitting activists and politicians. It was decided that we split activists from politicians. While activists remain in Category:Hong Kong democracy activists, this is the politicians category, and should be accordingly named. The "(Hong Kong)" disambiguation is necessary because there is also a "Pan-democracy camp" in Macau, see Pan-democracy camp (Macau). PanchoS (talk) 12:32, 21 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, the "pan-democracy camp" in Macau is called "pro-democratic camp". If this renaming is adopted, then "pro-Beijing camp" in Hong Kong should be renamed into "pro-establishment camp", and "pan-establishment camp" in Macau should be renamed into "pro-establishment camp (Macau)". UU (talk) 15:59, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This discussion is stale, but I think reviving it might lead to a consensus. I think we're close to achieving consensus, but not quite there yet. I'll notify WP:HK as well.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix (talk) 15:50, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Checkuser requests to be listed

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 04:06, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Requests for Checkuser has been superseded by WP:SPI. Chickadee46 (talk|contribs) (WP:MCW) 23:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I'll inform the WP:SPI folks about this, they'll probably know what to do about it.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix (talk) 12:32, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Livins people bhind

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: speedy deleted, gibberish. -- Tavix (talk) 12:41, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only used on the creator's user page. This category cannot be used on articles and contains typo (Living people behind?). NgYShung huh? 11:30, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tomorrow's World presenters

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 03:46, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:PERFCAT Rob Sinden (talk) 09:13, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - "Raymond Frederic Baxter OBE (25 January 1922 – 15 September 2006) was a British television presenter and writer. He is best known for being the first presenter of Tomorrow's World, continuing for 12 years, from 1965 to 1977". The nom needs to find a relevant rationale for presenters; presenting a weekly programme for 12 years does not fall under WP:PERFCAT. Oculi (talk) 12:17, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:PERFCAT: "This also includes categorization by performance—even for permanent or recurring roles—in any specific radio, television, film, or theatrical production" --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:25, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Top Gear people

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:59, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Despite the previous discussion, this is still a WP:PERFCAT, and is non-WP:DEFINING for the majority of the included individuals. Rob Sinden (talk) 09:06, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that is a solution. Clarkson was a presenter, so editors would just keep adding him to that category too. Matt LeBlanc too. How many of these people are really defined as a "Top Gear person"? Any of these (and any subcat) fails WP:PERFCAT. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:43, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:DEFINING, Clarkson belongs in Top Gear presenters. That's how RS refer to him; even now he is referred to as "former-Top Gear presenter". If it wasn't for Top Gear, Clarkson would be unknown outside the UK. LeBlanc not so much. --AussieLegend (✉) 10:27, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If this is the case, then the couple of people who could possibly be considered truly defined by their performance in Top Gear could be included in the parent category. Category:Top Gear presenters and Category:Top Gear people are liable to be filled with any number of individuals, as we have seen. --Rob Sinden (talk) 10:34, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I upmerged it based on that discussion, and it became clear whilst doing that that both this and the previous category were nothing more than WP:PERFCATs. No-one here is WP:DEFINEd by their performance in this TV series. --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:44, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WP:DEFINING: "A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define[1] the subject as having". Clarkson: "He is best known for co-presenting the BBC TV show Top Gear with Richard Hammond and James May from October 2002 to March 2015". So it is obviously defining for Clarkson (and more so for Hammond and May). Oculi (talk) 12:05, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The defining category is Category:English television presenters, not the specific programme, per WP:PERFCAT. In the same way, someone who is famous for being on EastEnders is defined as Category:English soap opera actresses, not Category:EastEnders actresses. --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:30, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There is no such thing as a defining category. This argument would dismantle Category:Manchester United F.C. players and Category:The Beatles members. Perfcat doesn't apply: get another rationale. Oculi (talk) 17:40, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No it wouldn't, being members of a band or a football team has nothing to do with WP:PERFCAT. We're talking about appearances/performances on a TV show, so WP:PERFCAT is completely valid. --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:19, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:PERFCAT: "This also includes categorization by performance—even for permanent or recurring roles—in any specific radio, television, film, or theatrical production". --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:27, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For whatever reason, PERFCAT is pretty narrowly scoped to exclude athletic categories, and Category:Musicians by band categories fall under People by organization. A media title is a performance; the organization in this case is the BBC. So Category:BBC people is an appropriate place for these pages (though I note there are a few more perfcats in that tree that should be dealt with). Ibadibam (talk) 19:09, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep; akin to other franchises where on-air, off-air, owners, producers, directors, etc. can be - if they all ought to go, let's discuss them collectively. DO NOT RECREATE THE RECENTLY DELETED, as that would be disruptive and limited to on-air folks (which is clearly PERF). Carlossuarez46 (talk) 20:34, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete -- Clearly a PERFCAT. Some of the presenters are far more notable for other television work than for this. I would not object to a list in the articled, though the information appears that a template. The 2002 article needs to be renamed 2002-15, since its successor appears to be a shadow of that series. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:58, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The presenters are already listed in the related articles (there are 2), the cat combines the list. Renaming the 2002 series article would be contrary to the naming convention. --AussieLegend (✉) 18:03, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Selectively upmerge to parent categories only if the parent category is defining. Clarkson may be upmerged to both parent categories because WP:PERFCAT does not apply to him but many others should just be upmerged to Category:BBC people (or maybe not upmerged at all) because WP:PERFCAT is applicable to them. This is a clearly not a 'one size fits all' issue. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:59, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or listify, and selectively upmerge to appropriate subcategories of Category:BBC people. Do not upmerge to Category:Top Gear. Perfcat is quite clear that it applies "even for permanent or recurring roles", and precludes upmerge where it tells us that "performers should not be categorized into a general category which groups topics about a particular performance venue or production (e.g. Category:Star Trek), when the specific performance category would be deleted (e.g. Category:Star Trek script writers)." Ibadibam (talk) 19:09, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Beaches in

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:55, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: In line with similar categories Rathfelder (talk) 08:39, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Beaches in Turkey

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge, noting that there is a specific guideline on this. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:57, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: In line with similar categories Rathfelder (talk) 08:31, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Faith-based literature

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:54, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: /Rename but I don't have a suggestion to what. I'm not sure what this is supposed to be... It's a subcat of Category:Religious literature and it seems like the two names are interchangeable. If these are all about the topic of faith, then rename to Category:Books about faith. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:26, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, this is an incoherent collection of books that each belong (and mostly already are) in different places lower in the tree of Category:Religious literature. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:16, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete hard to say what literature is based on what faith in what. If one has faith in science, perhaps any science book qualifies; perhaps if you have faith in Satan, a different set of books than those in this category would be there. Subjective pure and simple. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:50, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete -- after checking that nothing will be left orphaned. I checked a number of items. As far as I could see the "faith" is always Christian, though the writer's perspective is not always clear. It seemed to be a mixture of inspirational Christian books, books on relationships from a Christian point of view, and even a novel. The odd one may be exploring the Christian understanding of faith, but most are not, possibly relating to its application. Certainly the whole thing lacks the coherence required for a category. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:13, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, I just want to mention that the library at which I volunteer has a "Faith" section, actually, two, one for large print books, and it is all Christian fiction. Since we, at least I, am not willing to define it like that here, that "faith" = "christian" I favor removing the whole thing. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:13, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete POV category that only includes Christian books. Dimadick (talk) 19:09, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hebephilia

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was:  Relisted at 2016 SEP 29 CFD. Category was not tagged with Template:Cfd, so I have tagged it and relisted it. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:52, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: WP:Original research violations. Pederasty‎ is not hebephilia. And there are no sources in the Breast ironing or Sexual cleansing articles tying breast ironing and sexual cleansing to hebephilia. Hebephilia is not simply about the age range; it is specifically about adults sexually preferring early to mid-pubescents, and there is not much out there about the characteristics of hebephilia. Furthermore, the concept of hebephilia is significantly debated, as seen in the Hebephilia article. All of this makes it clear that hebephilia categories are a matter of POV not supported by the sources; instead, they are a matter of editors attaching anything to the term hebephilia that they personally view as being covered by the term. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:45, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for reasons stated by nominator --Iztwoz (talk) 07:04, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Categories are for navigation, not for definition. If there are more than a couple of articles related to this concept, and if a reader who is interested hebephilia would be interested in those articles, then they belong in the category. Or, to put it another way, it doesn't actually matter that pederasty isn't the same thing has hebephilia (although the nom is correct that there is a small difference between "an adult man having sex with a teenage boy" and "an adult man preferring sex with a teenage boy"). For the purposes of categorization, it only matters that if you're looking for articles on this subject, then here are some articles that you'll very likely be interested in.
    I'm dubious about the inclusion of a couple of the current articles listed in it (which should presumably be discussed at each of their talk pages), but not about the overall validity of having a category on the subject. I'm also willing to compromise on an informal "merge" to Category:Pederasty, e.g., by placing a note at the top of that category that says editors have agreed to include subjects about hebephilia there, rather than having a separate category with significantly overlapping content. WhatamIdoing (talk) 08:53, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete per nominators rationale--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:12, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, per whatamidoing. Pwolit iets (talk) 10:23, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – there has to be a sourced statement in the article which justifies inclusion in any category. Deducing from an article that it belongs in a category is exactly WP:Original research. Oculi (talk) 12:35, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Actually, if you read WP:NOR, it says "The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist." with a footnote that says "By "exists", the community means that the reliable source must have been published and still exist—somewhere in the world, in any language, whether or not it is reachable online—even if no source is currently named in the article. Articles that currently name zero references of any type may be fully compliant with this policy". There is no requirement that a sourced statement exists. There is only a requirement that it would be possible to source a statement, if some editor were willing to expend the necessary time, effort, money, and skill to find a reliable source. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:57, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:NONDEF, the content of this category isn't about hebephilia. If not deleted, oppose merging since pederasty since this is something completely different than hebephilia. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:39, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • Is deletion the best way to clean up the contents of a category? Disagreeing with the current contents of an article is widely consider an invalid rationale for deleting an article. It seems to be that it ought to be an equally invalid rationale for a category, unless perhaps the category were turning into a sort of attractive nuisance. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:02, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • If an article or category gets entirely empty because of lack of content it is deleted. In case of categories, in addition, WP:SMALLCAT may apply. So if you know a reasonable number (e.g. five) of other articles that do fit in this category, please share the names of these articles and we'll discuss it further. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:17, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete -- The two articles in the category seem to have little to do with the subject. I am prepared to accept that the article should survive. The two subcategories may need re-parenting. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:18, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films about hebephilia

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: no consensus. (Category was not tagged with Template:Cfd; nominators, please remember to do so, otherwise no changes can be made as a result of the discussion when a consensus is reached.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:47, 29 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Same rationale as the one for the proposed deletion of the hebephilia category. This category is a WP:Original research violation. How are we to judge what is a film about hebephilia? If reliable sources don't state that the film is about hebephilia, we should not be categorizing it as a film about hebephilia. Like I argued for the deletion of the hebephilia category, "Hebephilia is not simply about the age range; it is specifically about adults sexually preferring early to mid-pubescents, and there is not much out there about the characteristics of hebephilia. Furthermore, the concept of hebephilia is significantly debated, as seen in the Hebephilia article. All of this makes it clear that hebephilia categories are a matter of POV not supported by the sources; instead, they are a matter of editors attaching anything to the term hebephilia that they personally view as being covered by the term." Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:45, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for reasons stated by nominator. Also topic is a totally pointless 'concept' imo. --Iztwoz (talk) 07:07, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Anyone who looks at a search engine can easily verify that the main subject of films such as the 2012 documentary Are All Men Pedophiles? (which is not currently in that cat) is "pedophilia and hebephilia". Including such a film in this category does not require original research (==impossible to verify in reliable sources). It may, however, be appropriate to spend some time determining whether all of the current entries in the cat belong there. WhatamIdoing (talk) 09:07, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete it does seem to be original research...IMO--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:15, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • How did you conclude that this a WP:NOR problem? Look at sources like [1] and [2], which contain statements such as "A discussion of pedophilia and hebephilia (which the film spells “hebophilia”) from Are All Men Pedophiles?" Why do you think that it's original research – which means something that is not present in reliable sources – to conclude that this is a film about hebephilia, when reliable sources directly say that it is a film about that subject? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:12, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      via the same rationale used by the nominator[3]--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 20:44, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Sure, she says "if reliable sources don't state that the film is about hebephilia". But reliable sources actually do "state that the film is about hebephilia", using the exact word hebephilia. It cannot possibly be "original research" under that circumstance. WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:44, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep upon considering WAID's point, I therefore strike my prior opinion to "keep"...--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:37, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    WhatamIdoing, I considered that someone would bring up the Are All Men Pedophiles? film, and I thought about bringing it up as well, but it was not in the hebephilia category at the time that I proposed the category's deletion. And even if it had been, it would have been the only film about hebephilia in that category. So this is a WP:OR case indeed. Ozzie10aaaa was correct to support deletion, and I hope that that Ozzie10aaaa reconsiders going back to his deletion vote. We shouldn't keep a category for one film about hebephilia. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not OR to have such a category (although it might be a SMALLCAT problem, depending upon how many such films exist). It sounds below like a rename would make more sense, since this seems to be meant to separate "films about sex between adults and older minors" from "films about sex between adults and children" rather than actual hebephilia (and actual pedophilia, for that matter, and we seem to have a cat on that which could probably benefit from similar investigation). WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:25, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WhatamIdoing, I agree that it's not OR to have such a category. But that wasn't my argument. My argument is that it's currently being used in a way that is WP:OR, except for the Are All Men Pedophiles? film that you added to the category, and that there is not much out there in way of films about hebephilia (aside from Are All Men Pedophiles?) to have such a category. Editors would simply be applying this category to films that have involved an adult being sexual with a pubescent. Some editors would be focusing on the 11 to 14 age range, when that age range is just an outline since 9-year-olds (especially girls) can be pubescent too. At this time, I consider the existence of this category problematic. And, yeah, Category:Pedophilia and Category:Films about pedophilia also need to be under scrutiny. They are on my watchlist, but when people add those categories to articles, the watchlists don't pop up to alert anyone to the change. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:52, 10 September 2016 (UTC) Edited to make more tweaks to my post. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 00:04, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You can show category changes. Watchlist the cat page, then go to Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-watchlist and un-tick "Hide categorization of pages". Then you'll see items in your watchlist that say things like "(diff | hist) . . Category:User essays‎; 14:48 . . ‎Target360YT (talk | contribs)‎ (User:Target360YT/Anti-Racism added to category)". WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:05, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, I presume that the creator of this category, User:Dereck Camacho created it in order to ease navigation. If so, I agree with that premise. Also, its a form of disambiguation. Pwolit iets (talk) 10:26, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Pwolit iets, none of the films, unless we include Are All Men Pedophiles?, are about hebephilia. That is a WP:OR problem. I got wind of this problem because I saw you misapplying these hebephilia categories. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, my rationale was this: there is a very similar category for "films about pedophilia" which basically included every single film were a person under 18 have sex with a person over 18, as a medic I know the category listed most movies wrong as pedophilia is a very specific conditions for attraction/sex with pre-pubescent children, with such films as American Beauty and even Lolita not belonging there. Of course, retire them from the category would cause an editing war in some cases or constant reversions in other as a lot of people do not have the clinical difference clear enough and would insist in the inclusion. As for original research, well, is not rocket science, every movie with sex between a teenager and an adult qualifies. But the original research can also be applied to the "films about pedophilia" category. So if this category is eliminated I think the pedophilia category should go to. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 12:18, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • It sounds like you meant to create a "Category:Films in which adults have sex with young but post-pubescent teens". This title is more like "Films about adults being sexually attracted to younger teens, regardless of whether anyone ever has sex at all". WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:45, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • The idea was to take a lot of movies out of a wrong category made by people with no clinical knowledge of the terminology. Now, if some of the movies in the new category belong there, that's another discussion. I did my best reading the synopsis of each movie to see why was put into "filsm about pedophilia" in the first time, it could be of course that some skipped my effort, but in general the movies in the category are suppose to be the ones were an adult and a teen have sex and is some sort of important point in the movie. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 08:59, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Dereck Camacho, if the films are not about hebephilia, we should not be categorizing them as films about hebephilia. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – The Damned (1969 film) does not mention hebephilia, sourced or otherwise. (Most 'Films about' categories should be deleted. The Damned (1969 film) is about all sorts of things.) Oculi (talk) 12:41, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tend to keep, if hebephilia is defined as adults with a certain preference per WP:RS and the films are about adults with that preference per WP:RS we don't need to require that RS explicitly mention that the film is about hebephilia. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:47, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete suffers the same problems nearly all faults of the "films about" categories; how much about the film must it be and what WP:RS tell us it's at least that much. I am recalling a conversation here about what the 1999 movie "Titanic" was about: a shipwreck, a love story, hubris, upstairs-downstairs conflict (class warfare?), depravity, scarcity of resources, or (as some of these off-beat categories merely a mention of the subject makes the film about) maybe the whole thing was about chamber music. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:37, 7 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep but purge and it needs a more appropriate parent, perhaps relating to paedophilia. Hebe was the Greek goddess of youth, so that I take this to be about men loving young girls. Pederasty is the equivalent for men loving boys, so that it is not an appropriate parent. If it becomes physical, it is illegal in my country (UK) until the girl is 16; but others have other ages of consent. Paedophilia is a broader concept, referring to children of all kinds. Lolita (according to what I have heard of it) is specifically about this subject, so that it is a legitimate category. Periodically, we get real life cases of teachers running off with their female pupils; and sometimes this ends in a stable marriage, years afterwards. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:28, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Peterkingiron, see the Hebephilia article. Hebephilia is not simply "about men loving young girls." It is about adults (who happen to be men, when going by the documented literature) who are primarily sexually attracted to early to mid pubescents (whether a boy or a girl). A man with a sexual preference for young pubescent boys is a hebephile. Pederasty is not a hebephilia counterpart. Pederasty is about sexual societal customs that took place between men and adolescent boys in ancient times (mostly ancient times anyway). Pedophilia, as noted in the Pedophilia article, is (usually) about the primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Pedophilia is not about all sexual attraction to children, unless the term is misapplied. 16-year-olds, for example, can be pedophiles since 16-year-olds are usually post-pubescent individuals and their brain development aligns more with an adult's brain development than with a child's brain development. 16-year-olds normally do not find little kids sexually attractive. A 16-year-old being primarily sexually attracted to little kids is no different than an 18-year-old being primarily sexually attracted to little kids. The only difference is that age 18 is legal adulthood in most countries. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 01:07, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have to agree with Flyer22 Reborn as a psychologist. Paedophilia is not a broader concept, not for us at least. It is a very specific concept for a very specific age gap (attraction toward prepubescent children) not in any case attraction toward teenagers even when in the popular speech is use like that, but Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and as such should go for the scientific definition. This is just a cold medical position, not a moral one, I personally and as a therapist think that hebephilia is still wrong and that a relationship between a grown adult and a teenage person is still unhealthy for many reasons. And also medically the people involved also need to have a certain gap of age between them disregarding the legal age, I doubt any psychologist o psychiatrist would considerer a 18, 19 or 20 year old man with a 16 or 17 year old girlfriend a hebephile (much less a pedophile) even when is still illegal en many jurisdiction. The age gap may vary in literature but it’s generally considered between 5 to 10 years depending on the expert.
PD but I do agree that should be purge, I probably made a lot of mistakes while applying it. --Dereck Camacho (talk) 11:11, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I stand corrected on the meaning. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:38, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:List notification templates

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The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 19:11, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Same thing, near-total overlap, but the merge-from name is confusing, and the merge-to is not.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  01:33, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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