Talk:Saiva Siddhanta Church

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Criticism section

Happened to be researching the Temple today, and noted that this article, unlike articles on larger religions, lacked a Criticism section. So I started one. Since this is a relatively small religion, I imagine most of the article's readers will be members of the religion, and many of them may find the inclusion of such a section hurtful. I am sincerely sorry about that; however, Wikipedia articles on religions tend to have such sections (or break them out into separate articles for large religions with many critics), and Wikipedia practice should be abided by here. Rinne na dTrosc (talk) 18:15, 22 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The criticism section keeps getting deleted, and the facts of this article keep getting altered by insiders. This entire article should be deleted, as it is a very small unknown group, and definitely not noteworthy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.15.216 (talk) 18:48, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Saiva Siddhanta Church has a small following, but it is noteworthy as (1) an American Hindu organization which has been accepted by ethnic Hindus and mainstream Hinduism; and (2) it punches abouve its weigh and has wide outreach through Hinduism Today Magazine, Iraivan Temple and the works of Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami. Subramanian ^talk 21:54, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Appropriate Article Title

Anthony Appleyard, some concerns about the title of the page. I have received a message from Anantashakti having COI with the subject in my talk page expressing concern about appropriate title of the page. I had moved the page to 'Saiva Siddhanta Temple' from 'Saiva Siddhanta Church' earlier as per the secondary sources. You made the movement reversal, though I can't see any discussion on the talk page of the article about the appropriate title of the page. Where one of the most reputed reference about the Temple [1] refers the Temple as 'Saiva Siddhanta Temple' and not 'Saiva Siddhanta Church'. Would you please mind telling me if your decision was based on exclusively the request of the editor having a COI where the secondary sources indicate contrary of such request? ☆★Mamushir (✉✉) 01:44, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Anantashakti is indeed vice-president of the organization. I'm afraid Mamushir is plainly wrong; he indeed claims to use "secondary sources" when all primary sources point to the organization's name as being Saiva Siddhanta Church. As for his statement that one of the most reputed reference about the Temple [2] refers the Temple as 'Saiva Siddhanta Temple'
well, it does not. Subramanian ^talk 20:24, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 January 2024

The request to rename this article to Saiva Siddhanta Church has been carried out.

If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Saiva Siddhanta Temple → Saiva Siddhanta Church – The organization Saiva Siddhanta Church has both an official name and an explicit rationale for it. Subramanian ^talk 19:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I used to be an associate of this organization. I am rather familiar with the dissatisfaction it brings to some people that it has chosen to call itself a Church (overseeing two temples) and not a temple. It's an ideological issue regarding the supposedly Christian overtones of the word church; but that discussion does not belong here if the institution itself has chosen to be called a church. Please be attentive to undue religious fervor subverting factual truth here.

Therefore I have edited the article and I request a move. Subramanian ^talk 19:52, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Hinduism has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 20:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support: The word "church" (etymologically from Greek kyriakon, but which also inherits the semantics of the Latin ecclesia, Greek ekklesia) means a religious organisation, community or congregation, an organised body of believers. On the other hand, the word "temple" (from Latin templum) means a delimited holy space, a "templated" space, where the "con-templation" of divinity is made possible. The correct term in this case is "church", and not only from a semantic point of view, but also because it is used in the official name of the organisation in question itself. Æo (talk) 22:37, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Aside from the reasons I mentioned above, I might add: (1) It's the organization's legal, public and widespread name; (2) Æo's etymological observations are precise and corroborate the request; and (3) I am the user who originally created this page, almost twenty years ago, under the proper title "Saiva Siddhanta Church", and subsequent moves were neither properly voted on nor reasonably justified. Subramanian ^talk 02:04, 9 January 2024 (UTC) An addendum: I discovered that the most recent move to a “Temple” title has been made by an anonymous user from Tamil Nadu, India, reverting an Wikipedia editor’s previous decision: see it here. Subramanian ^talk[reply]