Talk:Victor E. Marsden

This article was nominated for deletion on 27 February 2020. The result of the discussion was redirect.

Yours truly,--Ludvikus 02:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Yours truly,--Ludvikus 17:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Victor E. (Emile) Marsden Died in 1920

As far as I know, there is no biography of Marsden. And although he is associated with the publication of the Protocols of Zion, whatever he did was done by him as reporter and translator for The Morning Post. It is not even generally known what role, if any, he played in the production and publication of The Cause of World Unrest. His name is generally associated with the Sergei Nilus text, alleging that he Translated, into the English language, an Appendix of the Book, namely, the 1905 edition of the Russian title, "The Great in the Small." But whatever our alleged notorious translater did, he must have done it before his death in 1920. And it appears that we know that he died in the Summer, shortly after disembarking from H.S.M. Renown with king George V's eldest son, named "Edward Albert Christian George Andrew David Patrick" Prince of Wales. But our protagonist had been dead by the middle of 1920. One would imagine that his obituary had been published in The Morning Post, where he did his work as a reporter. Who wants to look for it, among you Wikipedians??? Ludvikus 03:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

SOMEONE--I DON'T KNOW WHO--HAS CHANGED THE DATE OF DEATH BACK TO 1921. THIS IS A MISTAKE. PLEASE IDENTIFY YOURSELF SO WE CAN DISCUSS THE ISSUE!!! Ludvikus 02:00, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Says User:Humus sapiens: Marsden is commonly credited with having written an introduction to the English-language edition. According to its preface, it is supposed to be his "crowning monument."

It is to be noted that the first published English language translation of the text, known by one of its several titles, as "The Protocols of Zion," was as a newspaper article in London, England, in 1920. Shortly hereafter, but also in 1920, it was published as a pamphlet, and/or book. The edition of the text that is most often referred to, however, and which is currently in circulation, is the 1934 version of this text. It is best describe as the "299 page edition." Prior to 1934, this text was never more than 165 pages long, and most often no more 75 pages long.

I'll get back to these later. In the mean time I recommend deletion of the above un the grounds that it is misleading, inaccurate, and untrue.

Yours truly, Ludvikus 13:27, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It would be nice to find and read Marsden's obituary. Unfortunately, I've been unable to find it anywhere in a New York City academic library. I would expect the Morning Post (London) would have published it - but this paper went out of print some time ago. And I've not been able to locate a library which holds a Microfilm copy of it. --70.23.220.254 06:12, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But...

The primary contributor to this article might wish to consider just how many sentences in the article start with "but", and then consider whether the presentation is encyclopedic. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But, I actually own the 1934 imprint of the Protocols of Zion

Let others "cleanup" the Article as to its encyclopedic style! I am amazed by the inaccuracies concerning Marsden, who died on October 28, 1920! Ludvikus 01:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The ORIGINAL 1934 imprint I purchased on September 21, 2006, for a grand total of $181.00. And owning this Antisemitica item gives me the opportunity to feel like Sherlock Holmes!Ludvikus 01:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I understand the WP principle against Original Research! However, going to the ORIGINAL TEXTS and giving them a priority over SECONDARY WORKS must be an exception to this rule - or the rule must be interpreted in such a way to permit such prioritization- no matter what the EXPERTS SAY! The catalogs of the world's scholarly libraries are at our 'mouse's click"! And that's how one should be an effective WP Encyclopedist!!!Ludvikus 01:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The elimination of to many "buts" I leave to other fine WP editors!Ludvikus 01:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Did Marsden translate The Protocols for The Morning Post?

I've TAG'ed this allegation with "‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› ^{[citation needed]}" today. I quote from our article as follows:

    The first English language publication of this text was in London,
    in the The Morning Post, in 1920, and Marsden‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› ^{[citation needed]}
    is credited with its translation.

A careful reading of Norman Cohn's Warrant for Genocide shows him to be quite cagey on the issue of who translated The Protocols for The Morning Post. In fact, Cohn devotes only a singe page to Marsden, p. 169, where he says the following:

    Just as The Time was influenced by its correspondent in Russia, Robert Wilton, so the
    Morning Post accepted everything it was told by its correspondent in Russia, Victor
    Marsden. Like Wilton, Marsden was an Englishman who had lived many years in Russia and had
    adopted, with passion, the outlook of Russian right-wingers. And if Wilton could by
    imagination conjure up a Soviet monument to Judas Iscariot, Marsden went further and produced
    a new translation of the Protocols (it is still on sale in London today). It is not
    therefore surprising that in the summer of 1920 the Morning Post should have published
    a series of eighteen articles expounding the full myth of the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy, with
    of course due reference to the Protocols.

Not only are these 18 Morning Post articles hard to get, but Cohn is extremely unclear as to this alleged "new translation of the Protocols (it is still on sale in London today)." Which is the "new" translation, and which is the "old"? Could Marsden in fact be completely innocent as to any translation work regarding at least the published English language Protocols? Ah! No original research! But what does a Wikipedian do in the light of lack of any knowledge?

Yours truly,--Ludvikus 02:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

W73/5522

The British Library has acknowledge that the alleged (1922) imprint is a mistake. --Ludvikus 00:25, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

British Library:

    System number        009601120
    Author - personal    Nilus.
    Title   	         Protocols of the Meetings of the Learned Elders of Zion / translated from                  
                         the Russian Text by Victor E. Marsden.
    Publisher/year   	 London : The Britons Publishing Society, (1922)
    Holdings (All)   	 Details
    Shelfmark   	 W73/5522 DSC Request

This catalog entry has been changed by the library as inaccurate and mistaken (at my prompting). --Ludvikus 00:27, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alleged murder

There is a conspiracy theory out there which claims that Marsden's death in 1920 was actually a murder, presumably in retaliation for having published the English edition of the Protocols. While this theory does seem rather dubious, the present article should certainly provide more information on the exact cause of his death, since the current version doesn't really give any details about his biography. ADM (talk) 14:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]