Talk:Make 'Em Laugh

Edits

HI Songwaters. I see that you are making quite a few edits on this article. The most recent are "unsourced" [1] and will be removed regardless of WP:SONGTRIVIA. Second, simply going back in rather than rv'ing is still a form of WP:EW. Your summary: "Age is not relevant" is not a policy at WP and is actually "Personal Opinion"; which I contested and fits in with the statement: "a chain-smoker". How is this relevant and not age? The two are synonymous. Your grammatical edits are questionable at best; where the previous were fine; and this: "full quote is not needed, and rm obvious "he could have" is not obvious. That's why it is there. The fact is (backed by the source) Cole Porter could very well have sued, but chose not to: that is the point and reason of mention. I am bringing this to the Talk Page to contest your recent, questionable and numerous WP:OWN type edits. I will be reverting the changes until you can provide solid reason as to why they should be changed per WP policy and not personal opinion. Please find a source for the other inclusions. Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 14:19, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

@Maineartists: Being a chain-smoker is reason enough why someone would be bed-ridden after performing such a physically demanding routine, whether they're 27 or 77. Also, the fact that Porter had justification to sue is already established by Stanley Donen's admission that the song is "100% plagiarism" and that the two songs "bear almost exact similarities in form and style." At the very least, we could return to the original wording of "Although Cole Porter had unchallenged reason to bring suit, he never sued for copyright infringement," which is more specific. Songwaters (talk) 17:36, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Songwaters Again, what you just did is 100% personal opinion and a drawn conclusion not based in sourced facts. But even more so: you're missing the point of this sentence. The very fact that he was 27 is the reason for inclusion. The routine was so demanding that even for a 27 year old, it left him bedridden for several days. It would be less credulous if he was 77 because then one could argue: "So what if he was a chain-smoker? The man was 77 years old!" Let's find a happy medium and re-word it to your liking. That being said: the original intent for inclusion should remain solely that it is more significant to write: "Although O'Connor was only 27 years old at the time, he was bedridden for several days after filming the sequence." Age is more a relevant factor than him being a chain-smoker for the demand of this routine. Everyone chained smoked back then; and drank. For the second part: I'll give you the original wording (Although Cole Porter had unchallenged reason to bring suit, he never sued for copyright infringement) and will go along with re-instating it. Maineartists (talk) 21:55, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Authorship

There are many, many references that prove that "Make 'Em Laugh" was written by Arthur Freed and Nacio Herb Brown rather than Betty Comden and Adolph Green, starting with this interview with Comden & Green, in which they talk explicitly about Freed and Brown having written the song -- and having plagiarized Cole Porter in the process: https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?cc=mqr;c=mqr;c=mqrarchive;idno=act2080.0041.101;g=mqrg;rgn=main;view=text;xc=1 There's also the fact (as now cited in the article) that the song is literally credited to Freed & Brown.Jhlechner (talk) 22:26, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Those references are wrong. They are sinply assuming that Freed and Brown wrote it because they're crediting with writing the songs for the film. Freed and Brown wrote no new songs for the film, all of their songs came from their back catalog. The two new songs "Make 'Em Laugh" and "Moses Supposes" were written by Comden & Green. Read Comden & Green's introduction to the printed script of Singin' in the Rain, which gives the actual story. DO NOT RESTORE THIS INACCURATE INFORMATION TO THE ARTICLE AGAIN! Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:19, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken: While "Moses Supposes" was indeed written by Comden & Green and Roger Edens, "Make 'Em Laugh" was written by Freed & Brown. I have cited numerous sources in my edit, and will reiterate them here:
- In the very source you cite -- Comden & Green's introduction to the printed script of "Singin' in the Rain" -- they refer to "Make 'Em Laugh" as a "new song by Arthur and Mr. Brown."
- As noted above, in a 2002 interview, Betty Comden specifically refers to Freed and Brown having written the song -- and having plagiarized Cole Porter in the process.
- Freed and Brown are credited on the film itself as writers of the song.
- Freed and Brown are credited on the sheet music for the song.
- When the film was adapted into a 1985 Broadway musical, Freed and Brown were credited as writers of the song. Note that Freed and Brown were long dead by that point, while Comden and Green were still alive, and would presumably have argued for proper credit if they felt it was due.
In short, there is a plethora of solid evidence that "Make 'Em Laugh" was written by Freed & Brown, and none that it was written by Comden & Green, including the very source that you're citing. If there is evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it.Jhlechner (talk) 18:02, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

• @Jhlechner: I bow to your excellent scholarship and apologize for my intransigence. I am currently away from my home library, so I was working from memory, which was obviously faulty. I will restore your edits to this article and to Singin' in the Rain, if you haven't done so already. Again, my apologies. Beyond My Ken (talk) 18:57, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

References