Talk:Heroes Reborn (miniseries)

Incorrectly disambiguated

Heroes Reborn is not a "miniseries" in the traditional sense – it's what is now known as a "limited series". Can I go ahead and move this to "Heroes Reborn (TV series)" without objection, or should I launch a requested move?... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:59, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Moving it to (TV series) implies is is a stand-alone show, which it isn't. 'Limited series' is a pretty new term, and denoting Reborn as such probably needs a citation. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 21:05, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

1) "Limited series" is not that new a term (it's about a decade old). 2) Calling it a "miniseries" is pretty much factually incorrect. Calling it a "TV series" is not. So, the question remains – do you oppose an article move to "Heroes Reborn (TV series)"? --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:14, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Note also that the term "event series" as used here is synonymous with "limited series". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:16, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

(ec) The "Limited series" is coined by an awards show. What is "factual" is not relevant; we follow the sources, and they all call it a miniseries. And I explained above why (TV series) is not correct; it is not a stand-alone TV series, but the continuation of an existing one. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 21:18, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

OK, I see the problem now – it's NBC's stupid Feb. 2015 press release where there call it "an event miniseries" (which is redundant); the later March 2015 press release from NBC uses the terminology correctly. But your claim that "calling it a TV series is not correct" is in fact, not correct – of course it's a "TV series"! (Also, the term "limited series" was certainly not "coined by awards shows", but was being bandied about by TV network execs long before that...) But I'm going to drop this because NBC's Feb. press release (and I'm just gonna blame NBC here!) means that there will be plenty of people that'll insist upon going off that (even though the later March press release uses the correct terminology). Which is unfortunate, as this just makes the article title more confusing, not more illuminating – it really should be moved to Heroes Reborn (TV series)... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:27, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

BTW, for more on the terminology, I tried to find a few relevant articles: [1], [2], and probably more relevantly to this: [3]. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:33, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 12 October 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the comics article, leave this one where it is for the time being. There's a clear consensus that the comics article is not the primary topic, however there's no consensus about whether the miniseries is. We can revisit this in a few months and in the meantime there will be a dab page at the base location. Jenks24 (talk) 09:23, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

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• Heroes Reborn (miniseries) → Heroes Reborn
• Heroes Reborn → Heroes Reborn (comic)

– The WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for "Heroes Reborn" has changed to the miniseries. Pageviews show that the TV show has 12x more views than the one for the comic.[4][5] People are typing in "Heroes Reborn", looking for the show and being initially directed to the page of the comic. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 14:38, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose/Support WP:RECENTISM the miniseries is *new* and currently airing, so will spike in accesses. However, making way for a disambiguation page would be a good idea, so move the comic to Heroes Reborn (Marvel Comics crossover), but replace with a disambiguation page instead of moving the TV show; there being other topics, such as Marvel Heroes Reborn, -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 15:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
  • The miniseries page has received more views in the past month than that comic page will ever receive per year. That should make it way more significant than either comic series. Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 17:10, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose moving now. The current traffic spike is just recentism, since the upcoming television program is currently the subject of a PR push. If the numbers are sustained, it should be moved then, of course. 209.211.131.181 (talk) 15:11, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Do you mean if the numbers are sustained after the miniseries has finished airing? @209.211.131.181: Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 07:37, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Traffic numbers are only one factor in determining a primary topic - but yes, changing the primary topic would require sustained interest after the program was no longer on the air. 209.211.131.181 (talk) 14:57, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose first and support second 73.154.175.89 (talk) 21:41, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Mind explaining your reasoning? @73.154.175.89: Raykyogrou0 (Talk) 07:37, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Incorrect Logo

The file used and labeled as the logo for Heroes Reborn is a fan-made image. Will someone who knows how to please fix this error? [6]--Ecccu0524 (talk) 03:14, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

I'd do this myself but I am not familiar with working with images. I've posted a comment on the Media copyright questions page that will hopefully get someone who knows what they're doing to see this and help out. —2macia22 (talk) 16:04, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

I replaced it with a screenshot, but only now discovered the link that has a clear logo which is much better suited. Not sure if that one meets the threshold of originality, or what non-free license to use. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 16:23, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

@Edokter: The thumbnail for the image shows the correct screenshot, but the image itself is still the fan-made image. Any idea what happened there? —2macia22 (talk) 21:02, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Purge the file description page. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:49, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Merging Dark Matters

I think the episodes from Dark Matters should be moved from List of Heroes episodes to right above the broadcast episodes here in Heroes Reborn. The other "web-based minisodes" subsections in that article are about the previous series, Heroes, and end in 2010. If Heroes Reborn is ever extended past 13 episodes or if there are more minisodes relating to Unborn, we can think about splitting all the episodes into a "List of Heroes Reborn episodes" article. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 10:25, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps the full episode summaries could be moved here (to a subsection also titled "web-based minisodes" and below the episodes here) and the simpler table with only episode titles left on the List of Heroes episodes page. But since the Heroes Reborn episodes are also listed on the "List of Heroes episodes" page, it wouldn't make sense to remove Dark Matters from that page entirely. —2macia22 (talk) 14:51, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Actually, on second thought, I don't think I've ever seen a series page like this one with more than one season's worth of episode tables. So the options would be to either leave everything as is, or to split the Heroes Reborn and Dark Matters episodes off into a List of Heroes Reborn episodes article. —2macia22 (talk) 16:00, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Regardless of what's done, I'm of the opinion that the episodes from Heroes Reborn should not be included in the List of (original) Heroes episodes article. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:32, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

I've created a Draft:List of Heroes Reborn episodes to show what this proposal would look like. (Feel free to edit.) I'm guessing that the only opposition to implementing this would be related to the question of whether this counts as a standalone "TV series" or if a "miniseries" is only a subset of the original. —2macia22 (talk) 13:47, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

2macia22 There are actually a couple of television series articles with more than one season's worth of episodes tables; Mathnet and Sports Night for example. Just because there were minisodes that came before Heroes: Reborn doesn't mean that all the episodes should have their own article. The prequel series Dark Matters is only six episodes and wasn't even an actual season. It would make more sense to and there's nothing wrong with putting the minisodes on the Heroes: Reborn article rather than a new article of List of Heroes Reborn episodes when there is only one season. 74thClarkBarHG (talk) 09:12, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I see! That would work to put them all on this page, then. —2macia22 (talk) 11:15, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

As per the policies regarding List of Episodes pages, Heroes Reborn should only have a separate LoE page if and only if it is renewed for a second season. Single-season series do not required separate LoE pages. Alex|The|Whovian 04:20, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

If we move Dark Matters here, should we also remove the episode table for the Heroes Reborn episodes from the "List of Heroes episodes" article? —2macia22 (talk) 18:27, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

The best method of separation is classifying Heroes and Heroes Reborn as separate series, and displaying this page as one would the main page of a television series, and removing all related material to Heroes Reborn from "List of Heroes episodes". That would mean moving Dark Matters to this page, yes, and if if goes beyond the 13 episodes, then splitting it to "List of Heroes Reborn episodes". Alex|The|Whovian 16:09, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

"Dark Matters" was basically just a single 42 minute episode (what was the pilot???) of Heroes: Reborn that was promotionally split into smaller chunks and "aired" online ahead of the actual Heroes: Reborn series. With other series with webisodes (Lost, the new Doctor Who, and others), webisodes are usually included on the episodes page of the main series they are attached to, but in a separate table structure marked as webisodes, often immediately following the main normal episodes.
As far as Heroes vs Heroes: Reborn, they should be treated as separate series, much like classic Doctor Who and new Doctor Who are treated in Wikipedia as separate series with separate articles despite having continuity between the two. — al-Shimoni (talk) 08:39, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, Classic Who and Revived Who don't have separate articles, they're all listed on the same page at List of Doctor Who serials. They both go under the same name; Heroes, however, now goes under Heroes Reborn and has started at Season 1 again, whereas the change between Season 1/Series 1 in Doctor Who is simply a change of the term used. Alex|The|Whovian 00:56, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Given that Heroes Reborn was completely separated from List of Heroes episodes, I've done the same to the main Heroes article, removed Heroes Reborn as the "next season" from Season 4, and converted the infobox on this article to the correct television one; however, some of the data may be out of date, given that I copied it across from Heroes. Alex|The|Whovian 08:55, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

"Event" miniseries

The lead calls this show an "event miniseries" which is cited/quoted from the NBC press release. Does the "event" have a particular meaning, in contrast to a (regular) miniseries, or is it a promotional peacock term to be avoided? –Dark Cocoa Frosting (talk) 15:14, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the reason for this is that there was some confusion as to what type of series this is classified as (is it a TV series? Miniseries? Limited series?) so the choice was made to use the exact wording that NBC provided. Since this is a cited quote, I don't think WP:PEACOCK applies. —2macia22 (talk) 17:24, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

So there is a difference between a regular miniseries, then? –Dark Cocoa Frosting (talk) 00:10, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

There should be. Basically, Heroes Reborn is properly catergorized as a "limited series". NBC's first press release on the subject is addle-brained puffery, that doesn't mean anything. (Specifically, "Event series" and "limited series" are basically synonymous in current usage; "miniseries" is not, as it's a much older term meaning a different type of scheduled programming (think The Winds of War (miniseries)).) NBC got the terminology right with their second press release, but the damage has been done as far as Wikipedia is concerned as "we follow sources", and even though the first press release is basically just wrong in terms of the terminology, many around here will insist that we follow it anyway. So I made sure we quoted the press release verbatim, to try and avoid confusion that Heroes Reborn is a bona fide "miniseries" in the way the term has traditionally been used. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:47, 31 October 2015 (UTC)