Talk:Middleweight

Change in Line-up

The page needs expansion, but it is my belief that the original author did a decent job. I edited those listed among the division's notable. While an argument might occur over what constitutes "notable," I didn't feel Benevenuti or Griffith or any of the others that I omitted, qualified. Quite simply, holding a title or fighting for a Mw title doesn't equate w/ being a notable Mw. For eaxmple, Leonard won the Mw title (even going on to win titles in heavier weight classes) and did so by beating the great MMH, but his best weight was clearly @ 147 and his career as a "Middleweight" wasn't significant enough to classify him among the division's notable. Even for the Hagler match, Leonard was hyped as a Welterweight coming up to fight the Mw champ.

I added Burley and Fitzsimmons because I think they're among that division's best. Burley's omission hurt, but it was expected since he is (unfortuantely) not a well known fighter. There was no excuse for Fitzsimmons' absense, however. Worst was not seeing Greb there. Naming great Mw's and failing to include Greb is like trying to make a cake without batter, it's like listing the 20th century's greatest and most famous scientists and omitting Einstein. Would you make a list of notable Hw's and forget Ali, Louis or Tyson? I think not. He's there now - top of the list, no less - so I won't complain any further, but I needed to say this.

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I tried to improve the chronological order of the list, and I made a few edits. I removed the part that said that Greb is arguably the greatest middleweight, since the same could be said of Robinson or Monzon or Hagler. I also removed the statement that Greb is among the all time best pound for pound, since this can be said of any of the fighters on the list. I also changed where it says that Hagler unified the title; Hagler inherited the unified title, he did not unify it himself, Monzon and Hopkins did unify the titles, however, so I put that in. What I did say was that Hagler was the first to hold all three belts (WBA, WBC, and IBF) at once; since he was granted the IBF title. I also added some info, like Hopkins holding the defense record, and Robinson winning the title a record five times. Last but not least I decided to remove Charley Burley. He was a great fighter, but he never won the middleweight title (not his fault, he was discriminated against.) He was a great middleweight contender, however, I felt it was unfair to include Burley and leave out Ezzard Charles who was another great fighter who fought at that weight, and who destroyed Burley twice. I didn't think Charles belonged on the list either, however, since he also never won the middleweight title and only fought there for a small amount of time in his career, and if Charles doesn't make the list then I don't think Burley should either, considering the results of their two fights, and the fact that Charles defeated a few one-time middleweight champions in his career. If we're going to start naming middleweight contenders we could name any number of fighters, like Archie Moore or Hurricane Carter or Winky Wright, and that'll be a rather large, confusing list.-12/30/06

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what size gloves do middleweights use?

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If you delete the places that incorporate wikipedia language one La'Shayne Pace, you end up only with a kid in Illinois who is on a high school football team. Nothing on Boxing Rec, for instance. Was there ever actually a professional middleweight by that name?03:04, 26 January 2010 >—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.35.118.232 (talk)

External links modified

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Of interest

Mike Wyant aka the "Hamilton Hurricane" [Feb 27, 1950-Aug 12, 1979] was a Middleweight Boxer of Hamilton, Ohio.

A former marine, Wyant began Boxing in April 24, 1975. He had 23 bouts of which 19 were Wins [14 KOS]; 3 losses; 1 Undecdied On August 12, 1979 he was shot and killed In Hamilton Ohio; a suspect gave himself up to Police and pled Self defense; the Grand Jury ignored an indicement; the suspect died in a construction accident July 31,2018

Legitimacy of WBA Regular championship

According to the International Boxing Hall of Fame, WBA Regular championship is not a major world title, nor is it recognized as such by any unbiased respectable source. Alisher.seitkassym what you've mentioned about IBHOF is a very small nitpick, especially compared to all the criticisms and doubts of trustworthiness directed towards WBA and its president. Виктор Не Вацко (talk) 11:10, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

And what is "all the criticism and doubts"? Opinions! You're operating with opinions and I'm operating with facts. WBA considers all his 20 defences legit. Not the mass media, but the governing body itself. The oldest governing body in boxing history. And i provided the link to it at the WBA official website in our dialogue. Doesn't matter what you or me or anybody else think of the WBA. And what does IBHOF have to do with it right now? No offence but do you even know how it works at all? A boxer may ballot to it 5 years after retirement. All the International Boxing Hall of Fame talk will be relevant when/if Golovkin is inducted into it years after he retires. I'm not nitpicking, as you say, I'm showing you that in case with Bernard Hopkins they've considered his third fight with Robert Allen (a No Contest) a title defence. All I'm saying is IBHOF will make its decision when the time comes. Again that means years after Golovkin retires. Until then the only platform is the World Boxing Association, speaking objectively, whether we like it or not. The rest of all talk is opinions and points of view (including media) Alisher.seitkassym (talk) 14:50, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

If not IBHOF, who exactly is, according to you, to decide whether WBA is a legitimate major governing body to begin with? Does that mean that we should also include IBO into conversation? IBHOF is the closest the boxing public will get to the universally recognized respected source of information. It's because of IBHOF that the boxing public recognizes WBA, WBC, IBF and WBO as major professional boxing governing bodies. That's why it's relevant. Виктор Не Вацко (talk) 15:53, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Alisher.seitkassym (talk) 16:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC) Viktor, I've already answered your question. About the timing and the procedure of it (according to the IBHOF rules). You know what? We can't keep re-editing the page until one of dies, right? LOL. I was just being objective and unbiased, and not opinionated, providing the FACTS. One of us should act as a grown-up and put an end to this nonsense. And that would be me, it seems. I've got a life to live. Anyway, when Golovkin enters the Hall of Fame everything will be clear. Hope we're both still be doing fine by that time and witness it. I will leave your edit alone unchanged, knowing that it's only a small, (unfortunately) opinionated and flawed wikipage that (fortunately) hardly has any impact on a boxer's legacy and boxing history as a whole and hardly is worth any more time that I've already spent. Good bye! Alisher.seitkassym (talk) 16:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand why you keep bringing the IBHOF acceptance procedure that has nothing to do with the discussion about the recognition of boxing world titles. Second, this not Twitter nor Youtube to leave messages like this. I keep changing the page because the WBA Regular title is not viewed by the unbiased part of the boxing public as the major world title. Given that neither WBA, WBC, IBF nor WBO are affiliated with any major sports organisation (like International Olympic Committee) and that there is no organisation in boxing that has the power position (like FIFA) or public's trust, IBHOF is the best of what we have now. Виктор Не Вацко (talk) 12:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

The W in WBA stands for World Title. it doesnt matter rather it is Super or not all the matters is the World part. on top of that who said minor title defenses cant be included?--Fruitloop11 (talk) 07:21, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

References