Talk:Durag

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

This article was selected as the article for improvement on 19 April 2021 for a period of one week.

Alternate Use

Welders Use 'em to keep spatter(molten metal) from getting in our hair.They are on sale at every welders supply store...and 'wave cap' should redirect here.4 T~i~l~d~e~s(7/5/2007_@4:08pm)

As a legally bald guy, I use them for sweat-management as well as UV protection. Most manufacturers tout these points as well. 71.164.218.146 (talk) 17:35, 16 July 2015 (UTC)LBG[reply]

Welders do not use do-rags. For one thing, the tied end of the 'do-rag' would be a fire hazard for welders. Welders use skull caps that are specifically manufactured for that purpose. The skull caps are more about fitting the welding helmet onto your head, than about keeping sparks away from your hair, which is the job of the welding helmet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.6.57 (talk) 18:10, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Article Title

Why was the reference to the term "dude rag" removed from the durag article by 206.131.130.190 on May 23, '05? Alternative names and spellings are greatly significant to the topic; on the streets in my area, the term "dude rag" is used more commonly than any other. The name "do-wrap" may also be of interest.

Furthermore, I am opposed to the racial delineations made the article. The reference to "African-American men" may seem appropriate in the context of hair. However, the cultural group among whom the durag is currently popular is not limited to any race. I have seen European-Americans wearing durags, and indisputably, Asian-Americans also wear them. In this case, The word "Ebonic" would be far more appropriate-- and far, far less offensive. I wasn't there in the beginning of durags, but I speculate that, even then, they were worn by members of other races. Regardless, hair-texture and culture are the relevant details here, not race. Such unnecessary racial distinctions only serve to exaserbate trivial differences between essentially similar people, effectually driving them apart.

--Jack "Jaeger"

You sound like you're making a few "racial deliniations" of your own, mein freund. Hair texture is certainly not something defined by race. There a good number of Caucasian, Hispanic, and Southeast Asian people with coarse hair. Hair texture isn't a factor in it's use, and by your own submission, neither is culture. Unless I suppose it's a case of cultural appropriation.

- Jesus.

I think there must be some discussion about the history of this word. The spelling of this word that seems most intersting is probaly 'do-rag which gives the impression that it may have come from "hair-do-rag" which is somewhat justified by the article as well ("...hold chemically processed hair-dos in place..."). Certainly the spelling of the "word" durag gives me little or no help in determining the history of this word or of the wrap it describes.

Best I can tell from Google, durag is not the most popular spelling. Here are my (unscientific) findings:

durag - 17,100 pages
do-rag or doo-rag - 42,600 pages

So, does anyone have a justification for this spelling or a certain history of this term?

One last item: The term Ebonic Youth seems to be a completely new and possibly made-up term used only in this article. The previous commenter (Jack "Jaeger") mentions it as being an appropriate term, but I cannot find any mainstream reference to the term being used like this. The term Ebonics is, of course, well used and there is a significant entry which is, importantly, missing even the word ebonic let alone a term like Ebonic Youth.

I myself am not sure who adopted the fashion trend in the 70s and 90s, but I submit it is not useful to make up a new term just to avoid the term African-American men.

-- Scott

"Ebonic youth?" You know better than that. --FuriousFreddy 15:51, 10 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, that probably is a niche term. I guess "dude rag" isn't very widely used either. It only shows up about 700 results on Google. But there has to be some non-racial name; It can get pretty old to hear people saying "black" when it has nothing to do with the topic.

Also, Scott, there is a hip-hop artist called Doo Rag, which may be why "do-rag OR doo-rag" returned so many results. I revised your comparison and came up with this:

do-rag - 216,000
du-rag - 313,000

The packages of all the popular brands say "DURAG" or "Du-Rag" on them, if that's any indicator of the correct term. Maybe it's just in my area, but if you never bought one of these, you could go to the corner store to look at some. :-D

--Jack

Almost certain it's spelt with a u

--Jay

This article is either misnamed or poorly written. The title is Do-rag, and that spelling appears 3 times in the body of the article. The apparently preferred spelling is Durag, and that spelling appears 35 times(!) in the body of the article. If Wikipedia's position is that Do-Rag is the proper spelling, then most internal references to Durag should be changed to Do-Rag. If Wikipedia's position is that Durag is the proper spelling, then the page should be renamed.

I acknowledge that it is the case that words originating in slang frequently have multiple valid spellings. But we need to be consistent. For reference, Merriam Webster lists "do-rag"; Collins lists "durag" and says "do-rag" is American English; MacMillan lists neither; Wiktionary (not an external reference) prefers do-rag.

The current situation makes no sense. It is my opinion, based on the references, that "durag" is preferred given that it is preferred in the UK and opinion is split in the US. I propose waiting two weeks (until January 11th) and then renaming the article to allow time for counter-arguments. Should there be a strong consensus to rename prior to that, I'm ok with that too. If consensus is that the article should be updated to prefer "do-rag" throughout, I'm with that too. As long as it's consistent. RoyLeban (talk) 09:55, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agree. Title spelling should be durag. Didn’t look at edit history, has someone done this and had it reversed? If so, why? Rsilbe (talk) 02:37, 10 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There isn't much of a consensus here, but the inconsistency is unquestionable. Given that editors have consistently used "durag" in the article, the NYT says that is the correct spelling, and Google hits appear to agree, I am going to rename this page from "do-rag" to "durag". RoyLeban (talk) 01:10, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Actual gang color use

The article implies that gang colored do-rags are a Holywood invention. Is that true or are/were they really used this way. Rmhermen 16:53, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No, this is absolutely true! While gangs have nothing to do with popularizing durags, CK's and BK's in my neighborhood wear their colors proudly, and this includes solid-color rags. Of course, some people (especially young kids) do wear solid-color rags without gang involvement. I'd personally never wear a red or blue one.

The article doesn't imply anything about gangs. Gang members also wear solid-color shirts, but you won't find any references to gangs in the article about shirts!

--Jack

Dew Rag?

The bit with the Civil-War era "Dew Rag" seems a bit weak to me... can anyone confirm this or provide references?

Jack says: Your comment should at least be signed as "anonymous". Er... yuk yuk yuk. Yeah, the nature of that suggestion really calls for some sort of verification. I'd personally find it kind of amusing to know what kind of source this idea came from... --Jack 06:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

As a white person I have always been under the impression that the use of du-rags (spell it the way you like) had origins in prison gangs. Is there any truth to this? 209.247.5.215 00:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)JOE S[reply]

This whole origin point seems to be someone's speculative stereotype, with no references given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.6.57 (talk) 18:14, 9 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology

The etymology already presented seems distinctly phony. Acronyms account for far fewer words than folk explanations suggest. The OED and Merriam Webster both state the word comes from do in the sense of "hair-do", which also chimes with an explanation given further into the article. The first use of the word from those sources is 1968 but that is describing the decline of the "do-rag", so it seems likely it is earlier. http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/00319472?single=1&query_type=word&queryword=do+rag&first=1&max_to_show=10 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/do%20rag Both dictionaries suggest that "do rag" is the accepted spelling (along with less prestigious dictionaries), but urban dictionary suggests du rag as an alternative. I'm not sure that this is terribly important though. Anyway, if nobody really objects I'm going to scrap the vietnam war stuff and replace it with the OED/M-W sourced facts. OcelotIIX (talk) 08:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The New York Times article is not a good source. the writer just asserts that “everyone” uses “durag” without any evidence. At best, one guy who wrote an article for the NYT asserts this spelling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.82.228.114 (talk) 13:30, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Du Rag Sales?

can anyone make an assumption about how many (total) Du Rags are sold in the U.S every year? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.160.204.208 (talk) 14:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

freedom fighters

"Do-rags date back to the 1800s when freedom fighters put them under their hats to protect their necks from the sun." Source please? Why the euphemism? Are we talking about revolutionaries in Cuba, or what? Slrubenstein | Talk 20:08, 10 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously not Cuba if it was the 1800s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.85.209 (talk) 08:59, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do-Rag - Vietnam War connection?

As an Army veteran, I thought I heard somewhere that "d.o." stood for "drive-on" rag, as in the acronym FIDO, in which the last two letters stand for drive on. Have any other veterans heard of this usage? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:F731:2010:DD3A:BE03:8818:FD5D (talk) 17:07, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is undoubtedly a false etymology. Stories like this become popular because they seem plausible, and therefore aren't fact checked. "I heard once..." or "Somebody told me..." or (as your say) "I thought I heard somewhere that..." are phrases to be alert to. Senator2029 【talk】 14:53, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Popular Culture

I've seen sources saying that Cleon the leader of The Warriors in the 1979 movie of that name wore a durag, though seemingly not a traditional type. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr gobrien (talk • contribs) 09:45, 2 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do-rag in Name, Du-rag in Body?

Regardless of where I've seen the term commonly referred to as (Du-rag), I do think that the title and primary spelling in the body should be consistent. It strikes me as odd that the title has 'Do-rag' as a primary spelling, but the entire body, without fail, insists upon 'Du-rag.'

It just comes off as kind of sloppy and inconsistent to me.

-$omebody

This is a completely valid, common-sense point that no one has responded to, and I don’t see any explanations for the mismatch or actual discussion on the topic. Unless there’s a reason I am not seeing, I propose the article be retitled “Durag”. Butterboy (talk) 15:50, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I posted a longer comment on this with a proposal in the original discussion on the name, above. RoyLeban (talk) 09:57, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Family experience with term

Hope I'm doing this right. Instructions are very hard to find here.

My (white) grandmothers, one from Britain and one from Germany, both wore them, as did all the women of their class and time, while working. And they called them dew rags. . They called it a 'dew rag' because in those days (according to my British granny) horses sweated, men perspired, and women 'got dewy' - so the rag was to absorb "the dew of their brows" as they did their work, whether it was housework, farm work, or field work.

It is NOT a black thing, its a working woman thing - and a world-wide working woman thing at that, but mainly inspired by need and the name inspired by the British lower-class working women as a swipe at Victorian (?) attitudes towards everyday bodily functions like sweating.

I'm in my 70s, and we are not early breeders, so my British granny was already fairly elderly when she explained this to me in the early '50s. My German granny didn't know the derivation of the name, and may have called it something else in German, but when she spoke English it was a dew rag for her too.

Even in the '50s it had become a sort-of shameful thing to wear and no one talked about them. It was such a status indicator, but not in a good direction, and I think its waning use in the '40s and '50s among the white population was also aided by the fact that running water being put in homes meant you could comfortably bathe and wash your hair more often.

As the usage faded from most white society, it stayed with black women and was soon taken up by black men for various reasons, it seems. I'm not as familiar with current use as it seems to be fashion more than utility. CybercroneCA (talk) 15:22, 27 September 2020 (UTC)mz[reply]

Reliable sources

The book Nevertheless, She Wore It (2020) has a chapter on the durag. Nosferattus (talk) 22:53, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the reference.

MalMcIntoch (talk) 19:16, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

19th century

I see no references to the 1800s in this article. Last time I checked that was the 19th century. MalMcIntoch (talk) 18:49, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am very surprised that this article does not mention the widespread use by slaves in the 1800s. Doesn't omitting that history omit what the do-rag actually symbolizes symbolizes? MalMcIntoch (talk) 19:14, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]