Talk:Stryper

Discussion

"They are considered the pioneers in the popularization of Christian Rock music".

Mmmmmm.... I think that title belongs to Larry Norman, who pioneered Christian Rock in the late 1960's.... more than 15 years before. See wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Norman

Perhaps the wording should be changed to "the pioneers of Christian metal," or if that is too POV, simply "pioneers" without "the." - KB 22:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd have to disagree. Stryper were popularizers of Christian Rock, considering that 'To Hell with the Devil' remains the highest selling Christian album of all time, over twenty years after its original release.

CaptnSpandex 23:31, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

legacy

Why was the information about the Stryper biography replaced with stuff about people thinking heavy metal was "close" to "satanic music?"

• First, the section you refer to was practically an advertisement for the book Loud N Clear: the story of Stryper. THis violates Wikipedia policy. Second, the legacy section is intended to show the fact that Stryper was recongnized by many as a great musical band but that their openly christian image prevented them from obtaining bigger succes, in the like of Guns N ROses, Motley Crue and Quiet Riot, who were band with similiar sound.<<Coburn_Pharr>> 20:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

• • Touche. But the fact that there was a biography published about them -- is in and of itself a testimony to their legacy, no?

• • Coburnpharr04, what are you basing your statement that Stryper was never as popular as Mötley Crüe, Quiet Riot, and other Glam bands on? Two of Stryper's videos were the most requested on MTV during that station's heyday, they have a platinum album, and several gold albums. Also, the statements about being 'too close to Satanic music', etc, need sources or they need to be removed.

CaptnSpandex 23:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Credibility

Perhaps something should be said about the credibility of the band? It's no secret that Stryper had MANY critics for trying to combine religious ideas that are predominantly about conformity and living by a strict set of rules, with a musical style that has always been active in pushing the boundaries, promoting free-will, and rebellion against power in the wrong hands.

The band didn't just have critics from one side of the argument either. As already suggested in the article, some religious groups saw them as being too close to the bands they were trying to counter, and my perception was that the majority of rock fans saw them as having little artistic credibilty in a rebelious musical genre such as Heavy Metal, due to their religious stance.

Of course the paragraph would have to be written in a balanced way, otherwise it could be construed as personal opinion (and therefore not valid for an encyclopedia) ... however there must be countless archive articles, tv shows, interviews etc that can be cited to give an overall view of the band's standing inside the context of the 80's rock/metal world, and the religious world.

--Compost 17:46, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow, because what you just said isn't full of a hell of a lot more POV than the article itself, right? If you even bothered to read the article there is stuff about the controversy anyways. Seriously you need to actually read things first and see what is in the article, and if you already did then maybe you just need to grow up. About them not having "artistic merit", they were pretty popular and have just as much "artistic merit" as pretty much any other glam metal group of their time. --E tac 20:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding the band's "credibility". Are you saying that Stryper wasn't credibly a Christian band, or not credibly a metal band? Or both? Maybe you can assert that the "metal scene" rejected Stryper, although I have no idea whether that's true or not, and either way it had better be verifiably sourced. But Stryper obviously found mainstream acceptance -- they had a platinum album and multiple music videos regularly played on MTV -- and thus were the first Christian hard rock band to gain widespread credibility at all. Jpers36 21:16, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I am unsure about what he meant by credibility as well, It seems he is just pushing his own POV because controversies are already part of the article. --E tac 05:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

as being someone who grew up in the '80's metal scene' in hollywood, i can tell you for a FACT that the members of stryper were anything but 'christian.' in fact, it is well-known in the industry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.61.98.167 (talk) 06:01, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

"Music critics"?

I am taking issue with "Dial-the-truth" ministries being cited as BOTH a "music critic" and a "religious group".

I'm not being anti-Christian here, but I really think Dial-the-truth citations should be removed from this page, or at least minimalized to a great degree. No one in the music business would accept them as legitimate "music critics". Also, they are a very small minority, a single organization...as such, you should not cite THEIR OPINIONS and extrapolte them to represent the opinions of "religious groups" (For instance, I wouldn't create a blog, put my personal opinions on it, then cite my opinion on Wikipedia as representative of the opinions of "heavy metal fans").

The only reason to cite the Dial-the-Truth ministry website in this article would be to verify that, "Dial-the-Truth ministries has criticized Stryper..."

Get it? Now, if no one objects (or if no one does it themselves), I'll eventually scrub or re-work the poor sourcing in this article. So, if you object, speak up now, please. Ynot4tony (talk) 20:43, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

KYLE

I'm wondering if the entire paragraph that includes the info on KYLE should be removed or put in a separate section (or at least the more personal information should be added to M. Sweet's page?)

I did edit the 2nd sentence and added a 3rd, since unfortunately her cancer has returned.

"Sweet's wife Kyle had been diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer, and the new album was put on hold so that he could care for his family and ailing wife. She underwent surgery and treatment from February 14 to July 14, eventually resulting in her complete, although brief, recovery and restored health. In April, 2008, Kyle announced that her cancer had returned as of October 2007."

I'm a newbie and do not know how to put in references or citations so if anyone wants to help out with that, it would be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.229.43.127 (talk) 06:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Had to break the bad news about Kyle passing away. A link to the official Stryper page was added, as the frontpage has been replaced with a memorial for her. Very sad.

CaptnSpandex (talk) 22:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

W.A.S.P.

I have heard that they were a response to the band W.A.S.P.. Any truth in this?--Jack Upland (talk) 11:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

About the Wife

Out of respect for her and her family, I don't think it is a good idea, to place an article or add in a section about Kylie in this article on Wikipedia. The woman is very ill and we don't know how long she will live. I think it is a good idea to leave her alone in peace. I have been a fan of Stryper for a long time and I really do hope she recovers from her illness.

I have also added this comment on the talk page of Michael Sweet. 27 December 2008. Anriz

Influenced

Current WWE superstar Chris Jericho as stated numerous times throughout his auto-biography, and the begs the question: Why isn't it noted? --L0W3R1D3R | TH3 L0W3D0WN 17:27, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Opening is a mess

I restored the opening to something earlier because I had to roll my eyes at what I saw. UnBlack metal?

Anyways before it gets changed I think there has to be some sort of agreement on what needs to be said for the opening. I'm going to spend some time trying to come up with something but don't expect it soon.

If anyone wants to take it on please do, I would just ask that it really summarizes the article and the band and is a good lead. No opinion please.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 08:05, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I went ahead and reverted the edit to the previous one. "Opening is a mess" is a statement based on opinion, rather than WP style guidelines, lacking constructive direction. The version that you accepted contained inappropriate qualifiers, puffery, and use of capital letters. I agree with the awkward sentence pertaining to unblack/black metal and simply removed it. Cindamuse (talk) 13:17, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Then may I ask what would be acceptable? My main problem is this - "Stryper had some success during the mid-late 1980s" I can see you having a problem with saying they had "great" success, but then "some" is okay? I don't personally like either choice. So what guidelines, examples should be followed to clean up the opening?71.224.103.120 (talk) 18:13, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Why not define success? How many albums went gold or platinum? How many world tours did they have? What size crowds did they play to? How many singles did well and on which charts? --Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:40, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Walter's suggestion to define success. The word "great", is a subjective term. What is great in the opinion of one person, may not be considered great to another. Cindamuse (talk) 19:44, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I actually agree "great" is opinionated but so is saying "some." So that is why I asked what would be acceptable?

As for success we do know that they have one certified Platinum album and two certified Gold albums. Also Billboard lists their positions on the charts - http://www.billboard.com/#/artist/stryper/discography/albums/3025 And we know they had two world tours - http://www.stryper.net/tour-archive/

I know some people don't want to give the band their due but that's not the point of the article it's to state the facts and not the opinions of either side.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 19:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Alright I did a re-write that I hope is agreeable with others. Feel free to correct what you think is wrong. I was just hoping to get some guidelines from others before doing this.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 16:10, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Made one change for readability and applied Wikipedia spacing policy (one space after punctuation). Also it's 1980s not 1980's. The former is the era, the latter is possessive. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:23, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Article Cleanup

I'm hoping for some guidance but I'm thinking of cleaning up the article and would like some guidance. What are the main problems with the article, specifically what sections need the most work? I'm thinking first that the trivia section could be put into the legacy section of the page. Second I was thinking of adding a section on controversies for the band, such as the mexican incident and attacks from religious leaders in the 80s. Also a minor one but a section on Tim Gaines and his history with the band. Any thoughts or guidance? Yes I'm looking at you Walter and Cindamuse.OfficialDoughboy (talk) 16:58, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

• Points within the trivia section need to be diffused into the article. The current Legacy section is simply a Trivia section with a different name. The information from the Legacy section needs rewritten to exclude unrelated trivial matters or integrated into the rest of the article.
• Controversy section(s) indicate a possible inappropriate point of view of the subject. It may be better to integrate controversial material into the article as a whole. See WP:NOCRIT.
• I don't personally see anything wrong with including content on Tim, however, this would need to be on par with sections pertaining to the other members of the band. The current Members section provides no more than an indiscriminate list. This is just my opinion, mind you, but I think it would be interesting to have a section on band members, along with a subsection presenting each member separately. This would need to brief, with "See also" links to their articles. Cindamuse (talk) 19:32, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Great ideas, I really like those. A member section would be great, I don't know how much justice I can do but I'll try. The controversy section would just be highlighting how activists picketed their shows and their run in with preachers - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvzwXqixjXM

If you think a legacy section is wrong I'm okay with doing away with it, but I thought it would be a good place to put some of the trivia and their impact on the industry.

A section on Tim would only be to put forth the facts of his on and off time with the band. If you think it's better to keep it in the main part of the article instead of a separate section I'm okay with that.

Thanks for the input! OfficialDoughboy (talk) 21:39, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

• Legacy section is good. Point-form is what needs to be changed. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:43, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
• Nothing wrong with a Legacy section in and of itself. However, the trivial one-sentence statements in this article's legacy section needs to be transcluded. There are also comments within the Reunion section that have have nothing to do with their 15-year reunion. These need to be appropriately integrated into the article as a whole. I would also propose changing the titles of the sections. For example, Style. Style of what? This section refers to the "Marketing and branding" of the band. Decline of what? The section would be better served with the title of "Decline of popularity". I've provided a layout, based only on my opinion. Much of the information from the current Legacy and Trivia sections can be transcluded within the Mainstream success subsections.

• Band history
  • Early years
  • Mainstream success
    • Marketing and branding
    • Media references
    • Religious opposition
    • Revolution Metal Fest
  • Decline in popularity
  • Fifteen-year reunion
  • Twenty-five year reunion
• Band members
  • Current members
    • Michael Sweet
    • Robert Sweet
    • Oz Fox
    • Tim Gaines
  • Former members
    • Tracy Ferrie
    • Matt Hurich
    • Kenny Metcalf
  • Session members
    • et al...
• Stryper tours
• Discography

These are only ideas to drop in your head as you work on the article. Take what you will and toss the rest aside. In that vein, mention should be made of the participation of Oz Fox as lead vocalist when Sweet left to start a solo career. The Fox article needs updated as well. Current statements in the lead indicate that he left the band in 1992. There are also crystal ball comments included. I'll leave the editing of the Fox article to another person due to conflict of interest. Cindamuse (talk) 22:34, 4 August 2010 (UTC) Cindamuse (talk) 23:07, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Mexico

Why was the entry regarding Stryper not returning the 55,000 dollars they stole from Mexico removed? Whoever edited that out sounds like they are afraid of the truth that Stryper, like Christianity are frauds.

It was added, with source to back up the fact and it was removed. Guess you Stryper fans don't want anyone to know the truth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.98.15 (talk) 00:57, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it was deleted by a bot. Apparently your source isn't on the approved list. I'd love to hear more about this, especially since that was around the time they were to play Creation Festival NW and cancelled. I bought by ticket hoping to see them and was bummed. What you would need though is balanced coverage on what happened. What did the contract stipulate, what were the reasons for the cancellation, etc.. And it might not belong in the history section. It might fit into a controversy section if one were created. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:17, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

• The reference was deleted because about.com is a blacklisted website, not considered reliable for sourcing. On another note, there is actually quite a bit of information available online about the incident regarding the event known as Revolution Metal Fest. There was a contract dispute, where it was determined that the event organizers did not live up to their commitment. The event organizers did not appropriately acquire permissions for international travel and work in Mexico. Stryper was shown to be within their rights to withhold the funds that were used in preparation for the international event. Essentially, the event organizers did not hold up their commitments in the contract and expected the members of Stryper to simply acquiesce and play anyway. Stryper had learned through previous experiences to avoid situations of this kind. I guess one too many times sitting at the border only to be turned away due to lack of documentation taught the boys a lesson or two. In the end, Stryper and other bands participated in a benefit concert to help the ill-fated event recoup loss of funds. In my opinion, the members of Stryper went above and beyond any legal or moral obligations they may have owed to the organizers of the event. Cindamuse (talk) 02:44, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Swaggart/Bakker connection

"Swaggart's condemnation may not have been a surprise, however, as Stryper was supported by the rival Jim Bakker ministries, who are thanked on several Stryper albums."

Can you say POV?? I am not a fan of either Swaggart or Bakker, but this seems to be opinion, not within the POV rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.88.188.242 (talk) 18:45, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Source of the Name

I hadn't heard this before, but besides the "stripes" reference in the Bible verse, allmusic says that Stryper is also an acronym, standing for "Salvation Through Redemption Yielding Peace, Encouragement, and Righteousness". There should be a source out there that says that. Shocking Blue (talk) 18:09, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

It's a backronym. If it says that at AllMusic, we can use it as a reference. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:28, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

In the "Music and Image" section of the article, it says the name of the band is "a direct reference to the whiplash scourges given by Pontius Pilate to Jesus, derived from the King James Version of the Bible's Isaiah 53:5." However, the scourging of Jesus is in the New Testament, while the Isaiah 53:5 passage is in the Old Testament. Personally, I've never read an interview with the band where they reference anything but the Isaiah passage as the inspiration for the band's name. Seems like this should be edited to clarify.Caspianrex (talk) 16:58, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

It comes from the King James version where that passage reads, "with his stripes we are healed".https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+53%3A5&version=KJV That is part of a passage that is known as the suffering servant. I will see if I can clarify. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:18, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

That is much better, Walter. I think it is far more clear than it had been before. Caspianrex (talk) 19:00, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Stryper is not Roxx Regime

Including the history of the Roxx Regime into this article is not appropriate. While it can, and should be discussed, they are different bands just as Feedback or The Hype are discussed but not included in the history of U2. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:05, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

links in quotes

shouldn't be there. Primergrey (talk) 18:41, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Which quotes, and why?--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 03:14, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Watch for Vandalism

So, there's an Internet meme going around that Ted Cruz is the lead singer of Stryper. There might be some vandalism here as a result, much like there has been over at the Zodiac Killer page. Henrymrx (t·c) 22:24, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Stop adding Members

According to an interview with Michael Sweet neither Doug Adrich or C.C. Deville ever joined the band.Stop adding them.link to the interview http://www.annecarlini.com/ex_interviews.php?id=1197

Chris "WarMachineWildThing" (talk) 03:47, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Associated acts

Why can't King James (band) and Boston (band) be associated acts? King James had Robert and Tim while Boston had Michael and has Tracy.JJsCat (talk) 17:39, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

They are associated acts.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 05:01, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Yes. I forgot that Ferrie was in Boston and Gaines was in King James. Glad 3family6 reverted me. I verified and I was wrong. Thanks. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:08, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome. I knew that King James had two members, but I didn't realized that there were two members of Stryper in Boston, I only knew about Michael Sweet, but, looking into it, I found that there were two.--3family6 (Talk to me | See what I have done) 04:52, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

God Damn Evil

When should a new page for this album be created? Now or wait until the album releases?JJsCat (talk) 19:53, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

When it's notable. See WP:NALBUM and WP:GNG. If it doesn't have a track listing, release date and details on production, it's not yet notable. If it doesn't have details from reliable sources, it's not yet notable. The band pushing news about its pending release doesn't qualify. It may just be WP:TOOSOON. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:22, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

There is a track list and release date. Michael Sweet posted it on the band's and his personal Twitter account. JJsCat (talk) 20:27, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

My earlier comments were a general comment. I know that Sweet has released a track listing and they have selected a release date. Now what we need is significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject and we can start that article. That means a writer doing more than just providing a track listing or reposting the contents of that tweet. Did you read those notability criteria I linked to? The TOOSOON essay is a bit more work, but not much, but you could read it as well. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:46, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I started a new page for God Damn Evil in my sandbox. JJsCat (talk) 12:46, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

@JJsCat: Thanks for doing this, but did you read the notability criteria at all? As soon as you had two reviews, from reliable sources (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Christian music/Sources), the album was notable. The charting also supports its notability. The content can be moved to main space. Would you like to do that or should I? If I don't hear back in a few hours, I will do so. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:32, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

@Walter Görlitz Go ahead I'm slammed at work. JJsCat (talk) 16:04, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

@Walter Görlitz I was not ready to post God Damn Evil. All I did was copy and paste Fallen to start working on it. JJsCat (talk) 13:59, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Sure. I requested the deletion of the redirect though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:37, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Okay it's done now. I went ahead and submitted it for review. JJsCat (talk) 15:17, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Christian Metal

Stryper is listed as a Christian Metal band and that is incorrect according to Michael Sweet. He prefers being called a metal band consisting of Christians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chastaindragon (talk • contribs) 18:37, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Sweet doesn't decide what genre reliable sources use to describe the band. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:03, 1 January 2020 (UTC)