Talk:List of Austrian consorts

Babenberg Ladies

Moved from WP:Reference desk/Language by --Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 21:50, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I need translations or a guess.--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 21:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Foi filho de Leopoldo II, margrave de Áustria "O belo" e de Ida de Cham. Casou por duas vezes, a primeira com Maria (? — 1105), uma senhora de Perg, filha de Adalberto de quem não houve descendência. Its Portuguese, and I think it talks about Leopold III's first wife. --Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 21:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

This is Dutch. Op zijn 22ste volgde hij zijn vader Leopold II van Oostenrijk op als markgraaf van Oostenrijk. Leopold was in 1103 een eerste maal gehuwd met een dochter van Walchun van Perg. --Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 21:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

German, (I) Adelheid von Perg/Machland (* um 1080, † vor 1105), Kinder Adalbert und der früh verstorbene Friedrich

I am creating a list of the consorts of Austria and I am currently on the Babenberg Margravines and Duchesses but I a little stuck with the images on Wikipedia commons. Some of the titles don't match up with the descriptions. Can someone translate these descriptions for me? --Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 22:29, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

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  Deutsch: Markgräfin Adelheid (Frowiza), Schwester von König Peter von Ungarn. (Babenberger Stammbaum, Stift Klosterneuburg)
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  Deutsch: Agnes von Meran, 2. Gemahlin Herzog Friedrichs II. (rechts), und dessen 1. Frau, hier unrichtig Gertraud von Braunschweig, in Wirklichkeit Sophia von Byzanz (links). Ausschnitt aus dem Babenberger Stammbaum, Stift Klosterneuburg.
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  Deutsch: Gertrud, Erbtochter der Babenberger, Markgräfin von Mähren und Baden. Ausschnitt aus dem Babenberger Stammbaum, Stift Klosterneuburg.
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  Deutsch: Markgräfin Agnes, Gattin Markgraf Leopold III. (Babenberger Stammbaum, Stift Klosterneuburg)
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  Deutsch: Markgräfin Mechthild, Gattin Markgraf Ernst des Strengen. (Babenberger Stammbaum, Stift Klosterneuburg)
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  Deutsch: Markgräfin Swanhilt, Gattin von Markgraf Heinrich I. (Babenberger Stammbaum, Stift Klosterneuburg)
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  Deutsch: Rikhard (Agnes), Gattin Heinrichs des Grausamen. (Babenberger Stammbaum, Stift Klosterneuburg)
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  Deutsch: Markgräfin Sophie, 2. Gattin Markgraf Adalberts. (Babenberger Stammbaum, Stift Klosterneuburg)

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  English: Margravine Adelheid (Frowiza), sister of King Peter of Hungary. (Babenberg pedigree, Klosterneuburg Priory)
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  English: Agnes von Meran, 2nd wife of Duke Friedrichs II. (right), and his 1st wife, here called Gertraud of Brunswick, but in reality Sophia of Byzantium (left). Excerpt from the Babenberg pedigree, Klosterneuburg Priory.
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  English: Gertrude, Heiress of Babenberg, countess of Moravia and Baden. Excerpt from the Babenberg pedigree, Klosterneuburg Priory.
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  English: Margravine Agnes, wife of Margrave Leopold III. (Babenberg pedigree, Klosterneuburg Priory)
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  English: Margravine Mechthild, wife of Margrave Ernst the Harsh. (Babenberg pedigree, Klosterneuburg Priory)
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  English: Margravine Swanhilt, wife of Margrave Heinrich I. (Babenberg pedigree, Klosterneuburg Priory)
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  English: Richardis (Agnes), wife of Heinrich the Cruel. (Babenberg pedigree, Klosterneuburg Priory)
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  English:Margravine Sophie, 2nd wife of Margrave Adalberts. (Babenberg pedigree, Klosterneuburg Priory)

The post would actually have been more appropriate at humanities because the German text is iffy. Some historical facts are disputed and some identifications are off. Starting from the top row left to right (I put in wikilinks to the articles for the people, the titles sometimes don't match) de:Stammliste der Babenberger might help. Comments in <>

1] Margravine Adelheid (Frowiza), sister of King Peter Urseolo of Hungary. (Babenberg genealogical tree, Klosterneuburg Monastery) <No idea where they got Adelheid from. Frowiza/Frowila/Froizza is documented. e.g. [1] Our page says monastery, but I think abbey would be more appropriate, might be a translation error.>

2) Margravine Agnes <Not Agnes of Merania> (de:Agnes von Andechs), 2nd wife of Frederick II, Duke of Austria. (right), shown next to his 1st wife, here incorrectly identified as Gertrude of Brunswick, but actually was Sophia of Byzantium (Byzantine princess Sophia Laskarina) (left). Excerpt from the Babenberg genealogical tree, Klosterneuburg Monastery.

3) Gertrude, Duchess of Austria, Heiress of the Babenberg dynasty, countess of Moravia and Baden. Excerpt from the Babenberg genealogical tree, Klosterneuburg Monastery. <The titles in the article don't quite match. The "heires" might actually be more aptly translated with "dowager" and one or more of her titles. See if s.o. at the article can sort that out.)

4) Agnes of Germany wife of Leopold III, Margrave of Austria (Babenberg genealogical tree, Klosterneuburg Monastery)

5) Margravine Mechthild wife of Ernest, Margrave of Austria Babenberg genealogical tree, Klosterneuburg Monastery. <Note that the German text in the article for de:Ernst (Österreich) differs significantly from the texts to this and the next picture. According to this site it's wrong [2] Ernest's first wife was Adelheid and there seems to be agreement that Suanhild was his second wife.>

6) Margravine Suanhild, here identified as wife of Henry I, Margrave of Austria. <This dates back to information meanwhile identified as forgery. Sources saying that Ernest, Margrave of Austria]]'s second wife as named Suanhild are more solid. [3]> Babenberg genealogical tree, Klosterneuburg Monastery.

7)Richeza <wife of Henry II, Duke of Austria, daughter of Vladislaus II of Bohemia is not the same as Richardis von Waltersdorf († nach 1196), ∞ Landgraf Heinrich von Stefling († 1185). None of the two were Agnes, daughter of Hermann I, Landgrave of Thuringia, de:Hermann I. (Thüringen) who was the wife of Henry the cruel. The whole confusion seems to date back to an ancient typo [4]>

8) Margravine Sophie (Hedwig), 2nd wife of Margrave Adalbert, Babenberg genealogical tree, Klosterneuburg Monastery - 71.236.26.74 (talk) 13:16, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

These picture are too confusing. I seen two picture for Agnes of Germany. I did my best in the list of margrave but I can't find places #7, #8, and #5.

Here is all the Babenberg Ladies, including the ones I thought I knew who was who, but I not so sure now. Don't translate, it didn't help. Just try to fixing up this mess.

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  Frozza Orseolo
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  Agnes of Merania (1215-1263) (right), and his 1st wife, here called Gertraud of Brunswick, but in reality Sophia Laskarina (left). But there is a third woman on the bottom, who is she?
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  Gertrude, Duchess of Austria
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  Agnes of Germany
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   ?
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  Swanhilde of the Hungarian March
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   ?
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   ?
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  Gertrude of Süpplingenburg and Theodora Komnene
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  Helena of Hungary
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  Margaret, Duchess of Austria
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  Richardis of Sualafeldgau
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  Ida of Cham
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  Agnes of Germany, again
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  Theodora Angelina

As I pointed out above no. 2 isn't Agnes of Merania, but Agnes of Andechs-Merania, The second Agnes isn't Agnes of Germany but Agnes of Thuringia List of Saxon consorts (in that list because of her second marriage) If you look at the pic you'll also see "Thueringen" on the banner. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 03:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

This is going to be a doozie of a project. It would probably help if you looked at the position of the ladies in the picture and compare to de::Stammliste der Babenberger.

tapestry to check position

. The resolution is lousy so I can't make out a lot of the writing, which would be key. The margraves are listed here [5] if you want to check. I'd also recommend you leave a message on the German talk page for "Stammliste der Babenberger". Lots of Germans/Austrians speak English and you are much more likely to find someone knowledgeable there.) Maybe you can even find s.o. who has a better resolution image and can help with the writing. Since the picture was painted in 1491/1492 for Loepold III we can rule out anyone following that in the family tree. - Oops the image at commons is acually the other wing. The ladies you are looking for are here [6] - I'll see if I can find s.th. better somewhere. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 05:10, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

You might want to reimport Leopold's wife from here [7] that image can be scaled and is better (BTW the commons description is wrong because it shows the right wing as what that image was taken from, but she actually is on the left one.) The banner text confirms it's her71.236.26.74 (talk) 13:26, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

no. 8 is this lady >> Hedwig (aka. Sophia), married 1132 to Duke Adalbert of Austria (1107–1137/38) Prince Álmos71.236.26.74 (talk) 15:18, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

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This woman was appointed above as Margravine of Austria: I can easily read in her inscription Schwaben, and the right part of her coat of arms shows the three lions of the Duchy of Swabia. Infortunately I don't know also who she is: if she married an Ernest, so there are two options: she married Ernest I, Duke of Swabia or Ernest II, Duke of Swabia. Ernest II didn't married, and Ernest I of Babenberg-Swabia married Gisela of Swabia, who is already depicted:

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So, in my opinion this Mechtild was a duchess of Swabia, and married a Babenberg named Ernest (in other case she would not be represented). She might be an unknown wife of Ernest II, I don't know... User:Mhmrodrigues([User talk:Mhmrodrigues|talk]]) 00:24, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

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This woman was appointed above as Agnes of Germany, again: who said that she is in fact Leopold III's wife:she is holding an inscription. It's hard to read, but I think that I've read gemahl kunig Steffan von Hungern (married Stephen of Hungary. One of her coats of arms is similar with this one in the middle (which I think, by its text, that belongs to Ungarn. Watch:

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And with this I think I may conclude that this Agnes was not Agnes of Germany, wife of Leopold III, Margrave of Austria, but Agnes of Austria, daughter of Henry II, duke of Austria and wife of Stephen III of Hungary. User:Mhmrodrigues([User talk:Mhmrodrigues|talk]]) 01:22, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Margaret of Austria?

Margaret, Duchess of Austria, wife of Ottokar II of Bohemia, should be inserted. Surtsicna (talk) 17:19, 4 October 2009 (UTC) So should Gertrude of Austria. Both the aunt and the niece were consorts rather than rulers, so they belong here. Surtsicna (talk) 17:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think they should. I was aware of their existance when I created this. But they were heiresses of Austria and it was by their rights that their husbands became Duke of Austria. They didn't rule at all though. --Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 17:58, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

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