Talk:Goblin

USA, please.

Regarding the list of places with “Goblin” in their name, Americans generally do not refer to their country as “US”. “The United States” or even “the US”, sometimes, but in this context, we would say “USA”. “US”, “US Americans”, etc. are seen by many as politically-charged exonyms. I would appreciate it if we could (not naming names) simply not use these words. I’m not asking that it be changed to “America”, I fully recognize that there are other people who use that term to refer to themselves (even if the vast majority of people know what you’re talking about when you say “America” without any qualifiers), I’m simply asking that we leave it as “USA”. Thank you.

-TBustah, 09:43, 1 June 2021 (UTC) TBustah (talk) 21:44, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

But the main article is called United States, not "USA". Dimadick (talk) 23:03, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

So your argument is, “It’s correct because Wikipedia says it’s correct?” That’s circular reasoning, and there’d be no point to editing this site if there we just accepted everything as it was and at face value. At any rate, the argument doesn’t really hold water. The title of the page may be “United States”, but it explains, within the first few sentences of the first paragraph, that the country’s full and official name is the United States of America.

Americans do say “United States” or “US” in some contexts, but a native would use “USA” in this one. Why is it so hard to respect that? The last time I checked, we weren’t going around telling Nederlanders that they are to call themselves Dutch just because that’s how some people in the outside world refer to them, or renaming the Taiwan page to Chinese Taipei because some governments kowtow to ChiCom’s delusions and demands. These are exonyms, plain and simple. TBustah (talk) 09:12, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

@TBustah: Wikipedia has a Manual of Style to make sure articles are written consistently. One section of that, MOS:NOTUSA, addresses abbreviations for countries including the UK and US. They can be spelled with periods or without, as long as an article stays consistent, but outside of the some clearly limited contexts, USA should not be used. —C.Fred (talk) 14:48, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Citizen of the US here: I'm sorry but @TBustah does not speak for all Americans. When talking about the US, I and most people I know either say US or United States. Their evidence is purely anecdotal. The Wikipedia MOS has it right. Theroguex (talk) 21:11, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

You're putting words in my mouth. I acknowledged that we say "the US" and "the United States", just not as a demonym and that "US" is usually preceded by "the", like you did just now. "US" in this context is an exonym. --TBustah (talk) 19:13, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Goblins as "greedy"

The introduction states that goblins are "greedy, especially for gold and jewelry." This Wikipedia entry is used by quite a few Harry Potter fans to claim that the portrayal of goblins in the Harry Potter franchises as "greedy, money-hoarding, hook-nosed bankers" is in line with "traditional European folklore".

But this claim has no citations at all, and it isn't elaborated on later in the text, either. Thus, this passage should be either removed or given citations - if any can be found. We shouldn't want this entry to become a culture war talking point if we cannot provide proper citations. Jürgen_Hubert (talk) 05:08, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Most instances of this claim I can find on the internet are uncited and appear to either be quoting or paraphrasing this article, which puts serious doubt on its authenticity. I have put a citation needed notice on it but if one cannot be found it should probably be removed. Throckmorpheus (talk) 01:12, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Are goblins really considered anti-semitic?

I have seen recent posts on social networks that someone is calling goblins as antisemitic caricatures, due to their characteristics. Draheinsunvale (talk) 21:46, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

From my admittedly limited study of the subject, the original folkloric goblins were not inherently antisemitic caricatures - they were generic placeholders for "small, mischievous spirits".

But their portrayal changed when they were transformed into creatures of fantastic fiction, possibly starting with "Goblin Market". Their portrayal in the Harry Potter franchise is especially blatant:

- Portrayed as "hook-nosed" (common in antisemitic caricatures as well)

- Minority population known for being "greedy"

- Control the banks

- Aren't allowed to carry wands (Jews in the European Middle Ages were frequently prohibited from carrying weapons)

- And are thus limited in the number of professions they can pursue (ditto)

- In Hogwarts Legacy, they are apparently part of a sinister conspiracy to overthrow the social order (see The Protocols of the Elders of Zion)

- And rumor has it that they are kidnapping children (see Blood libel)

Any single of these elements might be okay, but the sheer number of them makes this portrayal deeply problematic. But that's probably beyond the scope of this Wikipedia article. Jürgen Hubert (talk) 07:34, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

This portrayal is also present in the Warcraft universe. Not sure when anti-semitism bled into the creature and trope but it's obviously older than Harry Potter. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 18:39, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

I initially misunderstood through too quick a read and thought that the user was saying the creature changed with Harry Potter. Still, some of these bulletpoints about Harry Potter seem like a massive stretch, such as considering J. K. Rowling's portrayal and treatment of goblins to be indicated by an unreleased video game made using completely different writers. Let's try to keep discussion factual, and especially aimed away from defaming a living person per WP:BOP. IronMaidenRocks (talk) 20:26, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

I disagree. The caricature of a goblin with big ears and nose has been common in Warhammer, lord of the rings, DND etc etc for decades before Harry Potter franchise. Even in the earliest folklore they were described as ugly and greedy.

This whole ‘antisemitism in HP’ nonesense only started once JK Rowling fell out of favour for expressing her views on completely unrelated subjects.

Leaving this in the article goes against Wikipedias policy of remaining neutral. Statchecker15 (talk) 00:19, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

Goblins and (Possibly alleged) Anti-semitism

Considering it's recent prevalence, there should be a section at least on it's alleged anti-semetic nature/origins even if there is no source to prove this as fact. Either way, it being anti-semetic or not, the topic should be raised in the article.

Finton the magical salmon (talk) 00:16, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2024

Requesting an addition to the “modern fiction” section of this entry with the following paragraph:

In December 2023, Goblins were depicted in Dr Who as mischievous creatures who create accidents and seek out and feed off coincidence, with the ability to travel in time. Source/reference: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt28289422/plotsummary/?ref_=tt_stry_pl Gblewis81 (talk) 08:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

 Note: IMDB may not be a reliable source because it is a tertiary source, but am unsure. Any other sources?
— Urro^{[talk][edits]} ⋮ 15:31, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Marking the request as answered, for now, to reactivate the request, change the edit request template answered parameter from "answered=yes" to "answered=no" Shadow311 (talk) 20:16, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2024

Use of Goblin as antisemitism 2A00:23C7:3109:4001:DC74:2F8:4365:8DDD (talk) 08:03, 14 February 2024 (UTC)