Wikipedia talk:GLAM/Your paintings

Public Catalogue Foundation collaboration?

Is this project a collaboration with the Public Catalogue Foundation? --Another Believer _(Talk) 03:30, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Alas, no. The Public Catalogue Foundation has spoken with a few Wikimedians about a possible collaboration, but they are very scared that they will *not* be granted permission to work with Wikimedia from their partner organisations, so they want to ask them all individually and informally first. They have decided to postpone any firm partnership with us for about 10 months. They have about 800 partner institutions, so this will take a long time. I had hoped to receive all of their meta data which is online anyway, but even this was a problem. I also wanted to present some numbers about this dataset at the London GLAMcamp and set up a writing contest onwiki and invite their "taggers", but the PCF was worried that their taggers would become Wikipedians and stop tagging. Magnus Manske was so kind as to gather the full set of 37,000 artist names, but I also want the full set of painting names (250,000). We could still do a writing contest anyway. I have been checking the names and was up to 3,200 PCF-Wikimedia matches when we spoke in March. I now have over 7,000 PCF-Wikimedia matches and am still continuing my matches, which has been very entertaining as well as enlightening. Jane (talk) 05:53, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

DNB list related to YP

At Wikipedia:WikiProject Dictionary of National Biography/Artists. Almost exactly 50% of the missing DNB artists there are also missing YP artists. "Synergy" is an over-used term, but the fact is that DNB text plus YP images (with caveats all round) can make for rapid development of content. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:03, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for posting, I totally agree. I have seen your edits to the YP lists on my watchlist - keep up the good work! It's hard to get information on the lesser-known artists as many of them are only known in the areas where they lived and worked. Though a number like 37,000 sounds like a lot of artists, I have noticed that the YP has lots of doubles and triples, and half of them are without birth-death dates, so really you only have about 15,000 names you can match with any certainty. In my database of 2,000 UK & Irish artists with some sort of Wiki(p/m)edia presence somewhere, about 1400 of these are in the YP database. My personal interest is Dutch art however, and of 2,000 Dutch artists with some sort of Wiki(p/m)edia presence somewhere, I have found 700 of these in the YP database. One tip I can give you is to look at the sources of the DNB for the various regions of the UK, because then you can see if you can get the source lists of names which may be spelled differently, enhancing your chances of spelling matches. Jane (talk) 09:09, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement. What seems to work for me, in most areas, is to add the information from the DNB that is easy to get first. This is all for artists who died by 1912: I suppose there are many 20th century artists in the overall list. Charles Matthews (talk) 18:13, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the 20th century artists are clearly the most popular; 30% of all the artists on the YP website were born after 1900. Another 40% of them are listed without birthdates or any indication of the century they lived in. That leaves about a third of the dataset for artists born before 1900. Happy editing! Jane (talk) 13:10, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Subjects of paintings rather than artists

Is this project also interested in the subjects of paintings and are there any easy tools to upload the images that are out of copyright to commons. I've just come across at Wikipedia:Peer review an article (Henry Fownes Luttrell) with no illustrations and found this or this of the man and his wife on "Your Paintings". It would be great to have a tool like the "geograph to commons" (on Geograph & see Wikipedia:Moving files to the Commons#Transferring images from Geograph) tools which make it easy to upload them to commons with appropriate licences & cataloguing information.— Rod ^talk 19:39, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Rod, thanks for your suggestion. Though the PCF is willing to work with Wikipedia and links out to Wikipedia articles from their artist pages, I don't think they do this for painting pages, and it's a great idea. Feel free to contact them with your idea through their contact address on their website. As you probably already know, out-of-copyright pictures can be uploaded freely to Commons, and I have done this myself by hand in the past for certain pictures, but because the PCF hasn't already come out and said it's OK to do so, I would refrain from creating any bot that makes this easy until we get an official go-ahead from them. In general you can get the same or better image from the institution itself, but in the case you are referring to, you have no other option, as the painting images offered by Dunster Castle are lower quality. To be sure, you could ask someone at Dunster Castle if it's OK to reuse the Your Paintings pictures, but if I were you I would just do it by hand. Sorry about that, but thanks for your work on this, as this is exactly the kind of thing I think these pictures are suited for. Jane (talk) 19:57, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks - done manually.— Rod ^talk 20:37, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

When to add a template?

@Jane023, Victuallers, and PKM: The objectives say

"to link in limited circumstances articles on an artist to the BBC Your paintings page" (emphasis added).

Why "in limited circumstances" ? Why not link all of them (as I think we do with IMDB links, for example).

I have adjusted the template so that by default, with no parameters, it will draw the link identifier for an artist from Wikidata.

Why not then just add {{YourPaintings}} for every artist we know is in the catalogue, using either a bot or AWB?

On a different note, I have started updating the painters-by-date pages to include a column for their Wikidata items. As a subsequent step, I intend to update the WP and Commonscat columns, where I can get further entries or corrected entries from Wikidata, and then go through some of the ones with apparently similarly named articles, that do not yet have Wikidata matches, to see which of the apparent blue links are or are not correct. Jheald (talk) 17:44, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

YourPaintings artists matched against Wikidata items

See d:User:Charles Matthews/YourPaintings report. The results of the pass through the artists can be seen there in some detail.

For a headline figure, 6863 out of the 8757 matches correspond to an article here. Charles Matthews (talk) 13:39, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Wow! I remember (was it in 2013?) when the PCF thought we would only be able to match about 3000 tops! I think when I spoke with them I had hand-matched almost 3000 and of course with Mix-n-Match it has really taken off. I also noticed they have removed lots of their doubles and triples and I wonder if they have been following our work or have their own ways to identify doubles and triples? At any rate, I think this is pretty fantastic. Thanks for posting Jane (talk) 13:56, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

I updated your link, as it wouldn't resolve properly otherwise. I just checked and of all 8757 matched artists, 7962 are male and 723 are female, bringing the stats as just under 10%, which is high for GLAMs but lower than the RKDartists database (currently at 27507 matched to male artists and 3505 matched to female artists, slightly over 10%). Jane (talk) 14:14, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Of the 8757 items matched in Wikidata to the PCF artists, 6863 have links to the English Wikipedia. The Gendergap is represented by the low inclusion of women on Commons in categories and creator templates.

Property on Wikidata	Matches July 2015	Male	Female	%female
CLAIM[1367] AND CLAIM[373] etc. in Wikidata query		CLAIM[21:6581097]	CLAIM[21:6581072]
BBC Your Paintings artist (1367)	8757	7962	722	8.3%
Commons category (P373)	5183	4975	204	3.9%
Commons Creator page (P1472)	3290	3217	71	2.2%
Oxford Biography Index Number (P1415)	1974	1788	186	9.4%
ULAN identifier (P245)	7323	6820	491	6.7%
RKDartists (P650)	6994	6559	425	6.1%
VIAF identifier (P214)	7518	6958	549	7.3%
GND identifier (P227)	3535	3357	174	4.9%
LCAuth identifier (P244)	3221	3028	189	5.9%
ISNI (P213)	3744	3491	250	6.7%