Talk:Laurel and Hardy

A lot of this page is copied from http://www.geocities.com/fewsterman10/ (huge page, search for one of the phrases). Is it the same author or a copyright issue? -- Gaurav 11:34, 16 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I think, but cannot be absolutely certain, that the converse is true - the geocities page copies Wikipedia. I wrote much of the 'copied' material and for sources I used a number of books, notably the 'Biographical Dictionary of Film.' I have absolutely no recollection of using the 'John Ebenezer West' page. I would have never plagarised in such a crude and obvious fashion ;) -- TwoOneTwo (not logged in)

I think you're right: they swiped from us (or, rather, you) - DavidWBrooks 17:23, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The most famous?

Anybody who doubts that L&H are in fact the most famous comedy in film history should mention one comedy duo that is more famous! - Abbott & Costello? No! - Martin & Lewis? No! - ......?

(80.184.92.139 16:40, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC))

Abbott and Costello are, IMHO, equally well known. Not nearly as good, I'll grant you, but in terms of people recognizing the name of the comedy team, they are right up there. That's why we shouldn't be didactic in this article; however, I'm not going to change it back to "one of the most" because it's not worth an edit war.

A&C may be equally well-known in America, but in Germany, for instance, hardly anybody still knows them, while virtually everybody knows L&H or "Dick und Doof", as they are called there. (80.184.92.227 04:47, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC))

: and the UK. Never heard of A&C till i came to the USA this year, back home in the UK they are not known, but everyone knows L&H!

But be careful about making absolute statements; if nothing else, they make articles sound like more of the gushing fan-boy stuff that already litters the Web. - DavidWBrooks 17:23, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC)

In general, you´re right. But even someone who idolizes, for example, Bach can justifiably claim that he is the most famous and, arguably, the greatest composer of the baroque era. So my point is that you can both be a fan and judge things from an unbiased point of view! (80.184.92.227 04:47, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC))

Good point about non-American famousness, I must admit. Abbott and Costello are very wordy humor and probably don't translate as well as the almost-silent Laurel and Hardy. ("Dick und Doof", eh? I wonder how those names were chosen?) - DavidWBrooks 13:34, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Well, Ollie is fat (=dick) and Stan is dumb (=doof) (of course only the Stan in the films). So "Dick & Doof" means "Fatty & Dummy". By the way, I don´t like and don´t use these nicknames, because I consider them too derogatory. The boys knew why they always introduced themselves as Mr Laurel & Mr Hardy! (80.184.92.119 19:38, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC))

Ditto on the duo's fame in Sweden (and probably the rest of Scandinavia). Abbott & Costello and Martin & Lewis are by comparison unknown over here. Laurel & Hardy (known in Sweden as Helan & Halvan, i.e. The Whole & The Half!) are still wellknown by most people here.AEriksson 10:41, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I changed the summary sentence from "most famous", to "most known" for the sake of taking any opinions out of the article. --Hoovernj 19:29, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I am not sure that their comedy was predominantly slapstick, much of it revolved around the interactions of plot and characters.

As a child, I was far more familiar with Abbot and Costello as their films were shown on television a great deal-- but much of their comedy was verbal and relied on wordplay that simply would not have translated well into other languages-- or even to other anglophone nations due to differences in dialect and accent. Laurel & Hardy's comedy was primarily physical and and so was more portable to other cultures. On the otherhand, there were certainly other great comic duos who transcended national barriers such as Footit and Chocolat (an Englishman and a Cuban who made their name as cicus clowns in France!IanThal 23:25, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Utopia

I changed the bit about Utopia being an "abomination", as it is not NPOV. I happen to find the film very funny. (Ibaranoff24 04:38, 7 February 2006 (UTC))[reply]

"Compare to" section

Do any of these teams really have anything in common with Laurel and Hardy (other than them being a duo of two guys thrown into humorous situations)? (Ibaranoff24 06:43, 22 May 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Would any of you consider Zazu Pitts and Thelma Todd similar to Laurel & Hardy? Certainly Hal Roach wanted to create a female version of them, although it wasn't successful. Nevertheless, in watching Pitts & Todd, you can see a little of The Boys in them. Erzahler 20:07, 30 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I don't see the purpose of this section. A simple reference to Double Acts would suffice. Why on earth would the Chuckle brothers be seen as someone to compare to????

Trivia

Ronnie Barker's "Seven of One" show had a Laurel and Hardy tribute episode, titled "Another Fine Mess" (I don't know if the plot is related to the L&H short). Ronnie Barker played "Ollie" and Roy Castle played "Stan" (not the names of their characters). In the episode, "Ollie" and "Stan" sneaked out to take part in a late night talent show (their act being "Laurel and Hardy"), and much L&H-esque comedy ensued. That's about all I can remember, really. Feel free to fill in the gaps, if you've seen the show recently. (81.197.111.96 22:05, 24 May 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Crick e Crock (Italian)

This message showed up on my Talk Page, but it really belongs here. Does anybody know whether the writer is correct? My Italian is so rudimentary that I can't really be sure from the few sources I examined in Italian. Anyway, here is the message:

You can keep your Crick e Crock thing if you want, but it is not a correct information. In Italy, such nickname is given to ANY Goofy couple, i.e. Mikey Mouse and Goofy, Donald Duck and Daisy and probably Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy. So it is NOT another Italian name for Stanlio e Ollio. Kedar 18:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, these are the sources I found: [[1]] [[2]]

Sincerely, GeorgeLouis 21:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I do speak Italian fluently GeorgeLouis, and I read the two sources. As I said, Crick e Crock is not another Italian name for Laurel and Hardy, but just a nick name for all funny couples. But apparently you do not trust me -- Kedar 09:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Please, do not get personal. It is quite hurtful. One does not like to look at that sort of thing on one's computer screen.

A user named Galmgalm added the Crick e Crock reference and it was removed without explanation. I found what I thought were two good sources for Galmgalm's addition and reverted them based on those sources. Galmgalm not having seen fit to join in here, I am perfectly content to agree with Kedar's removal of the three words.

(It would be helpful when reverting to indicate the reason therefor in the edit summary.)

Sincerely, GeorgeLouis 14:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

CRIC & CROC

KEDAR YOU WRONG!!! ABSOLUTELY!!! It is not a "nick name for all funny couples"! Stan Laurel & Oliver Hardy once were best known as "Cric & Croc" (and not Crick & Crock, as you write!) or as "il grasso e il magro" (the fat and the thin), especially during the Fascist Era. Mussolini, who owned a personal theater, was perhaps the first or one of the first persons to nickname them in that way. After the war, their name changed and they became Stanlio & Ollio. Today, they are known as Stanlio e Ollio or Laurel & Hardy. But you can find a song of the fascist time, "la marcetta di Cric e Croc", that became a cult-record for children 30-40 years after, between 1960-1980s; and Da Passano's comics. Hope it helps. http://www.laurel-e-hardy.it/html/sx/approfondimenti/newspaper/stampa/paper.htm http://www.afnews.info/public/afnews/scaringi.html http://www.bombacarta.org/gasoline/gasoline03_02.pdf etc. Jack 00:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image

The picture is down as a "screenshot", which it isn't (it is a studio publicity photo). Is this a copyright vio?Sambda 11:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Certainly proved Laurel right"?

The article is very informative but may be a bit long... but the problem I see with it is that the article often seems to venture to personal estimations of the quality of various movies. "History has certainly proved Laurel right: the weakest of their films are the ones possessing the most baggage, while the best are those that unblinkingly focus on Stan and Ollie." Even if this were the consensus of 100% of reviewers, either contemporaries of Laurel & Hardy or current film historians, this would still violate NPOV. Maybe "Subsequent history has seemed with the general public to bear Laurel's view out: The movies commonly accepted as the strongest focus unblinkingly on Stan and Ollie, while the weakest possess the most baggage." ArekExcelsior 21:01, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]