Talk:Milkshake

Too much name-dropping

The hand-blended section has far too many references to individual restaurants and chains. All should be removed and replaced with a standard "alcohol, candy and other items can also be added to milkshakes" or similar, there is no need for the current parade of businesses. It is far too much like advertising- this is an encyclopedia, not an ad site.Himynameishelen (talk) 03:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Milk + Shake = ?

Are you sure about the ice-cream? Shouldn't it be ice-cream or fruit? KF 06:00 7 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I'm not an expert, but I would call something made with fruit and no ice cream a smoothie, definitely not a (milk)shake. --Brion

I'm not talking about fast food chains churning out beverages full of unspecified ingredients. I'm talking about mum or dad pouring milk into a blender and adding some chopped bananas or strawberries (and no sugar) and maybe just a tiny amount of vanilla flavour. In various parts of Europe this is referred to as a milkshake. KF 06:19 7 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I call that a smoothie, but I use soymilk so I'm just a crazy hippie. Koyaanis Qatsi

If it has ice cream, it's not a shake. It's a frappe. New Englanders may be the only ones in the world who use these definitions, but considering that we eat more ice cream than anyone else in the world - more than the rest of the US combined - I think we've earned the right to decide!

I'm afraid not...the milkshake contains, by definition, ice cream. It's the ice cream that made it different than the simple malted milk, when it was invented in 1922. Kaz 20:32, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Only by American definition - English definition states that flavoured milk, with or without ice cream, is a milkshake.--TheIslander 22:58, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

you are crazy young lady@TheIslander 92.207.184.242 (talk) 13:49, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Here in NY a shake (we call them "shakes" rather than use the full term "milkshake") is made with ice cream, syrup and milk. There's no fruit in our shakes. A Malt (or Malted) is shake with malt power mixed into it. A smoothie is a drink that would have fruit in it - but those can be made with milk, ice cream, yogurt and even a little juice as well (and of course, ice).

Things do get confusing because of the Friendly's chain using their own terminology by calling shakes "Fribbles".151.204.132.62 10:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)AR

Does this belong in Cat: Milk or Cat: Dairy products? Because generally it does involve both milk and icecream in many definitions, so why not move it from milk to dairy? Cobaltnine 10:27 1 July 2005 (EDC)

This, ladies and gentlemen, is getting too complicated. Rhode Island may be a fine place to live and work in, but what about the rest of the world? Do people there also drink "fraps", as they seem to be pronounced? <KF> 13:58, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Lately a milkshake has been defined with having ice cream. Actually a milkshake is one when it contains a type of milk in it. Ice cream is not specifically needed but can be used to thicken up the mixture.68.110.232.148 23:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it IS a frappe

Seems complicated? Only because the rest of the world messed it up.

Ice cream + milk + syrup = FRAPPE Milk + syrup = MILKSHAKE

Yes, I realize that us New Englanders are the only ones who use these definitions. I don't care! Everyone else has it wrong. Who are we to set these definition? WE EAT MORE ICE CREAM THAN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY COMBINED. Would you tell an Italian how to make pizza? Would you tell a Southerner how to make grits?

And while we're on the subject of ice cream, "sprinkles" are the colored ones..."jimmies" are chocolate!

I fixed it :) (Please sign your messages :) Project2501a 11:46, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

What he said :) The thing is that nobody actually wants to drink a "New England milkshake," or rather, nobody would pay a premium for what is essentially a foamy chocolate milk.

(For the record, the term "jimmies" is a derogatory racial reference, and should probably not be used here. The term "Chocolate Sprinkles" is non-offensive as a replacement. --Citrus)

No evidence, whatsoever, indicates that the term "jimmies" is a racial reference, derogatory or otherwise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.72.244.234 (talk) 01:41, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Good point, which is why frappes are a lot cheaper than the inedible garbage that passes for a "milkshake" in the rest of the country. It's not that places like (fake New Englanders) Ben and Jerry's charge you a lot of money for all that ice cream. It's that give you all that ice cream so that they can charge you a premium for it. The reason: mixing time is long than scooping time, so the labor cost is higher, and they have a profit quota to meet. They make that quota by adding more ice cream, on which their profit margin is higher and charging more money. Since labor cost is the same, more of that additional charge comes to them in profit. And you pay it because, if you don't know how a frappe is supposed to taste, you think you're getting some kind of bargain. If enough ice cream chains do this for long enough, everyone will forget that thin milkshakes taste better, and you'll have a whole new generation of folks who don't know any better because they've never had a real frappe. And, they're getting 75% more money out of you for a less tasty product.

Here's the deal: anything mixed or beaten is a frappe, because that's essentially what the word "frappe" means - to beat or strike. A shake must be shaken, and if it's not shaken it's not a shake. Any milk drink with ice cream is a "frappe" not because it has ice cream per se, but because the presence of ice cream necessitates beating - frappe-ing. The coffee drink known as a frappe is called a frappe because it's made with a hand mixer. And, one can certainly make a milkshake with ice cream, although the ice cream probably won't shake very well unless it's melted. Flavors or ingredients are irrelevant to the proper name - all that is relevant to the name is the action by which ingredients are combined. Human brains, garlic and bacon fat, beaten together in a blender or mixer, is a frappe. An old tire, some gum and a bottle of Night Train, beaten together in a blender or mixer, is a frappe. Two aspirin and a cup of water, beaten together in a blender or mixer, is a frappe. Those combos may suck, but if they're beaten or mixed they make a frappe. Any of those combos, shaken, is a shake. In conclusion, New Englanders have it right and the rest of America has it wrong. Hey, it happens.

And I don't know where the "with a spoon" stuff comes from--sounds like a marketing gimmick. If you need a spoon, you made it wrong--frappe or milkshake, it's a drink to be consumed with a straw.

Friendly's doesn't stick to the New England nomenclature, at least they didn't when I worked there. If you asked for a milkshake, you got ice cream, milk, and syrup, blended. If you asked for a Fribble, you got a very thick concoction of milk, ice milk, and syrup, blended--very thick, but definitely a beverage served with a straw, not a spoon. Both of these are frappes. Silarius 19:40, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

It's pronounced Fra-pay

Frappé or Frappée is the French word for beaten or struck, or indeed shaken - in the present tense it's Frappe - pronounced Frap as the article says - but in the past, it's Fra-pay - anyone who's even sniffed French should know this. A Milkshake until fairly recently in Europe is pretty much milk with an added flavour, shaken or beaten (ie. Frappé ) Literally shaken milk.

In the UK the addition of ice cream was a rarity pretty much until about the 70s - where it did occur you'd still have a fairly runny consistency. This is partly to do with the climate in the UK - between October & March you pretty much don't need a fridge - and in all except July and August you could at one time generally get by without - In 1960 only 13% of UK households had a fridge - 96% of US households did. (almost saturation ownership by 1970 in UK though) so ice cream in the 40's & 50's was still seen as an expensive luxury (and effect of wartime austerity on the mindset of the British public was far greater than in the US).

In the late 60's the Fast Food chain "Wimpy" in the Uk, which tried (often unsuccessfully) to emulate American Diners, started to sell "Tastee Freez" milkshakes - which were pretty much what we'd recognise today - they didn't really catch on until the MacDonalds invasion in the early 80's - and the McDonalds thick shake is pretty much the standard UK (and European) milkshake now - you will get some quite delightful milk based drinks in Gelateria in Italy and France - which will not necessarily contain ice cream. While Frappé is traditionally the French word used for a milkshake, you'd be far more likely now to just ask for a 'shake' - McDonalds menus in France tend to be written in English (and pronounced in some hybrid of English/French and whatever the nationality of the staff in the branch of McD's is)

In Greece there has been for many years, a fashion to drink ice cold milky coffee - Generally called Frappée (note the extra 'e' - it's feminine in French - une café frappée - as opposed to masculine for milk - un lait frappé ) (not that Greeks are known for their skills in speaking French though) The use of the French expression for this seems to derive from the product Nescafé - an instant coffee powder - which in Greece is sold primarily for making Frappées - and Nestlé have produced ready mixed milky coffee "Nescafé Frappée" mainly for the Greek market for many years.

So - from a UK and slightly European perspective - Milkshake doesn't have to have ice cream in it - but often does - Frappé can mean a milkshake with or without ice cream - but will generally be used in posh places, France, or in reference to Iced Coffee drinks mainly consumed in Greece.

And as for pronouncing it Frap - well I'll let New England get away with it if they promise not to pick us Northern Englanders up when we pronounce "Buffet" as "Buff-it" (which we do - sometimes even 'Buff-te' )

90.206.153.57 (talk) 19:46, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

disambiguation

Too many dablinks at the start of the article. It's time to make a (separate) full Milkshake (disambiguation) page. adavidw 22:42, 10 March 2006 (UTC)agree

List of brands

I have never heard of any of the brands of bottled milkshakes in the list. I checked out the articles that have links and found that they're distributed mainly in the United Kingdom. I'd guess that they aren't distributed in the United States, but I could be wrong.

Personally, I think there should either be an indication that these are British drinks (if they don't cater to North America), or some well-known bottled milkshakes from other regions should be included (such as those form Hershey's). Ron Stoppable 03:51, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thick and creamy

Which ingredients makes good milkshakes so airy and foamy? --Abdull 12:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I use a home made blender and I just put in some cocolate ice cream and milk and mix it til its about half way between liquid and solid. That is my definition of a milkshake. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darkn00b (talk • contribs) 19:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

The ingredient that makes either a frappe or a milkshake "so airy and foamy" is, simply, air.

Image

It would be nice to get a better image that wasn't blurry. -- Beland 16:29, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I replaced Image:Milkshake.jpg with Image:Strawberry milkshake.jpg --Para 20:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

National/Regional Differences

The list at the beginning of the article is trying to do two things at the same time:

1. Enumerate the regional differences on what beverage is referred to as a "milkshake"
2. Enumerate the different regional names for beverages that resemble a beverage which is somewhere called a "milkshake."

I would suggest breaking this up. First, explain that in the UK and Commonwealth countries a "milkshake" is a beverage made with milk and not ice cream, while in (most of) the US a "milkshake" is a beverage made with milk and ice cream. Then, separately explain that a drink very much like the US version of a milkshake is called a frappe in Greece and New England and that "milkshake" is sometimes shortened to just "shake" throughout the US (as in New York's "Shake Shack").

The fact that McDonalds et al. use ice milk and artificial thickeners is an implementation issue. The product is universally recognized as a cheap mass market version of the beverage known as a "milkshake". The odd texture and supernatural thickness of McDonalds' shakes could be discussed elsewhere in the article, if appropriate. --Clconway 12:35, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to have to dispute the definition given for Australia. In this case I think we side with the Americans, but I'm not quite sure. Basically, in Australia, a small amount of icecream is expected in any milkshake. It only becomes a thickshake if there's so much icecream that it's not frothy. Nick 23:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Milkshakes are quite popular in India and they generally use the UK definition (milk not ice cream). This might be worth mentioning (although it is probably due to the British influence in India and its probably not worthwhile to produce a complete roster of who uses which definition throughout the world). In this same class of beverages there is a drink called a "Mango Milkshake" available throughout India which seems to be nothing more than pureed mango flesh (it's thicker than mango juice). Can any Indian readers confirm or deny the presence of milk in this product? --Clconway 10:46, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Invention date of malted milkshake

The malted milkshake includes a malted milk powder (containing dried milk, malted barley and wheat flour) which was invented in 1897 by William Horlick, but added to milkshakes for the first time by Ivar Coulson in 1922 I don't buy this. 1922 was when the electric blender was invented, not the malted milk itself. Here's a different cite: "Milk shake also appeared in the late 1880s, but the term then usually meant a sturdy, healthful eggnog type of drink, with eggs, whiskey, etc., served as a tonic as well as a treat. Since malted milk was also considered a tonic, the combined malted milk shake was a logical step and in the early 1900s people were asking for the new treat, often with ice cream, and before 1910 were using the shorter terms shake and malt (the longer word malted being somewhat more common in the Eastern states). Malt shop was a term of the late 1930s, usually being a typical soda fountain of the period, especially one used by students as a meeting place or hangout." ---Listening to America, Stuart Berg Flexner [Simon & Schuster:New York] 1982 (p. 178) Tubezone 18:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Malted Milkshakes - UK perspective

Growing up in the UK in th 60s we always saw kids on American TV shows go to the drugstore to get a malt or a rootbeer - it seemed so glamorous, and I think most of us set our hearts on one day doing just that

There was so much in that one sentence to get your head around - Drugstore - presumably a pharmacy - a chemist in everyday English - Why would you go there for a drink ? Why did they even sell drinks - in the UK you went there to pick up a prescription. And pretty much that was it. And a Malt - what was that ? It looked like a milkshake - but we'd never heard of it, Rootbeer we could sort of get our head round - it was probably a drink like Dandelion & Burdock.

Well most of these issues sorted themselves out - most UK people go to the US at sometime, and may well pick up a soda from Walgreens - a lot less glamorous than it was in the old TV shows, but still fun in the middle of the night; and rootbeer was the stuff that McDonalds sold for about 18 months when they came over to the UK - which every body wanted until they realised that it tasted like disinfectant and really did belong in a pharmacy. But "Malts" ? - never seen one in the UK, never seen one in America. don't know anyone who has

This article explains it well - and makes it all the more surprising that we've no idea what it is - Horlicks Malted Milk Drink is a UK staple and has been for many many decades - but it's a hot drink - and not used for milkshakes.

So that one's going to remain a mystery. - A bit like why baseball never seems to catch on over here (it should - it has all the ingredients that cricket has) while NFL Football does have a small but well established and enthusiastic following.

Wish they had a "Steak and Shake" in Leighton Buzzard 90.206.153.57 (talk) 20:10, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Food or beverage?

Do you eat a milkshake, or drink it? Or maybe both? --Max 19:55, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Milkshake pop culture slang term

My milk shake brings all the boys to the yard, and they're like, its better than yours, damn right its better than yours, I can teach you, but I have to charge

So in this use of milkshake in a pop song by Kelis, it is refering to a womans body and how she moves it. Its for the purpose of sensuality and attracting attention. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Youngnluvnit (talk • contribs) 06:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

the foodshake external link is redundant as it redirects back to the milkshake page.

Spoon?

I agree with Silarius, above. Although a milkshake may be eaten with a spoon, it is hardly a defining feature of the product. Ice cream shops will often provide a spoon, but a milkshake is just as likely to be served with a straw alone. Clconway 19:22, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Thickshake?

In the UK anything with or without icecream is called a 'milkshake'. Perhaps there is a particular brand which says it is a 'thickshake', but never would you walk into a cafe and ask for a 'thickshake'. Where on earth did you get that from???

Australia

I'm having a hard time understanding why the Australia section is necessary. How is an Australian milkshake different from an American milkshake?

Agreed. That sounds an awful lot like a milkshake to me. Clconway 15:11, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Rhode Island

The source given for the Rhode Island term "doorknob" actually says that in Rhode Island they're called "cabinets." So are they doorknobs or cabinets? Llamadolly 10:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Recipes

I think we should add some home-made shake recipes... pobetiger 72.190.1.116 06:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

McDonalds story and re-structuring Variants

I see almost no relevance in anything in the History section from the Ray Kroc story on down. I don't think anybody is coming to WP to find out how profitable milkshakes are for the Sonic chain.

Hi, Ray Kroc story is trivia, fine, but the Sonic chain info shows how profitable milkshakes are to the restaurant industry. It used to be in a section called "Business models", but there wasn't enough content, so I relocated it to the History sectionNazamo 17:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

In addition, the User:Nazamo has significantly changed the discussion of variants. As can be verified above, there are a lot of people in the world who disagree strongly that a milkshake must necessarily include ice cream. Re-casting the definition as "an ice cream beverage, with variants" is not WP:NPOV. Clconway 23:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the following from the article. Clconway 23:32, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

In 1954, a milkshake machine salesman named Ray Kroc, who was the exclusive distributor for “Multimixer” milkshake machines, made a sales call at the McDonald brothers’ hamburger stand in San Bernardino, California. After seeing the potential in the brothers' fast food operation, Kroc abandoned the milkshake business and became the franchising agent for McDonalds, which would become the dominant firm in the North American fast food industry<ref>http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:sUhzfM3IC_8J:www.mcdonalds.ca/pdfs/history_final.pdf+milkshake+history&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=42</ref>. The development of franchised chain restaurants such as McDonalds led to the demise of the "handmade" soda fountain-style milkshake, made one serving at a time with a drink mixer and a stainless steel cup. In its place came the premixed fast food "shake", which restaurants purchase in bulk and serve with milkshake machines.

Nevertheless, diner-style restaurants, ice cream parlours, and family restaurants continued to serve "home-made"-style milkshakes. Indeed,

The bit about Ray Kroc being a milkshake mixer salesman could be put in a "Trivia" (notwithstanding WP:TRIVIA). Clconway 16:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi, it is hard to find historical info on milkshakes, thus the less-than desirable Ray Kroc anecdote. Regarding your suggestion that a milkshake can be made without ice cream, I am just following what appears in the history material (use of newly-invented blender to mix ice cream with milk and other ingredients). If there is no ice cream, wouldn't you have flavored milk or an egg nog? And if it is thickened with banana and crushed ice, then arguably you'd have a smoothie! Please help add historical info if you can find some. ThanksNazamo 17:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Nazamo, I don't know anything about the history. What I do know is in some parts of the English-speaking world, the primary meaning of "milkshake" is not a beverage with ice cream (see above and the Wordnet definition). There's been a lot of heated discussion of this in the past. Clconway 16:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Milkshake countries

I'm from Finland, and you know, we have milkshake in here too. I bet milkshake is known and available about everywhere in the western countries. So currently I find it odd that the article specificially mentions some countries where milkhake is known, even though it is by no means limited to those countries.89.166.21.54 00:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thickshake?

SHouldn't there be a sub-section on the thickshake. In Australia, a milkshake has little or no ice cream; a thickshake (equivalent to the mcdonalds shake) has loads of ice cream with little or no milk (obviously its blended to make it a drink) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.188.149.134 (talk) 12:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Bad Reference

Reference #22:

(Foundas, Scott (January 16, 2008). "Paul Thomas Anderson: Blood, Sweat and Tears". LA Weekly. http://www.laweekly.com/film+tv/film/paul-thomas-anderson-blood-sweat-and-tears/18140/?page=2. Retrieved on 2008-02-10)

No longer exists, only points to the laweekly movies website.

Evan.wondrasek (talk) 13:33, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

It's on the Wayback Machine, here: and I have updated the article. Rodhullandemu 13:50, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Separate page for frappe?

Thanks I think to Starbucks and their Frappucino, frappe has taken on a different meaning in the Philippines. It now means a Frappucino-like drink. How should Wikipedia handle this? A separate page? It's really not a milk shake since it often doesn't include milk or ice cream.--Bruce Hall (talk) 05:53, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Milkshake (or shake) also has a different meaning in the Philippines. There is has no ice cream and very little milk (or cream); it is mostly ice and fruit; more like a fruit smoothie with a bit of dairy. Merpius (talk) 14:13, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Popular Culture

Does there really need to be a "popular culture" section for milkshakes? Seriously? Why is any of this notable? 75.138.214.127 (talk) 08:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

The concept of notability only applies to articles, not the content of articles. WP Pop culture sections are a unique element in WP articles.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 23:48, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

blenders have nothing to do with it

Soda fountains, etc, never used blenders to make shakes or frappes. They used, and still use, a mixer shaft with one or two small round undulating discs, inserted into the container or mixing cup. No blades. I assume whoever wrote this has no first-hand experience. But they could've googled it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.26.8 (talk) 03:14, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Merge from The Longest Drink in Town

Is is dubious that milkshake has stand-alone notability; merging it here could save some content. Thoughts? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:37, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

• I added a couple of sources and a merge template to the article yesterday. I also copy edited it quite a bit today. From my searches, the topic has not received enough coverage for a separate article, but some of the content would help to make this article a bit more comprehensive. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:52, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
•   Y Merger complete. I have boldly merged content from The Longest Drink in Town into this article. The topic is not notable enough for a standalone article. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:58, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

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Proposed merge of Date shake into Milkshake

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge; proposal withdrawn by the proposer (Spudlace) following significant improvements in the Date shake article. Klbrain (talk) 11:11, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

---

Should we have separate articles for flavors of milkshake? Spudlace (talk) 22:06, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

I'd support such a merger. It's entirely too stubby and at most a local drink. Not much more that can be said beyond "milkshakes flavored with dates are popular in the Palm Springs area and are considered a distinctive local delicacy" (with appropriate sourcing, of course). oknazevad (talk) 17:50, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

From a quick internet search it appears that date shakes seem to have a significant amount of press coverage, enough to justify a separate article in my opinion. There's definitely enough material for expansion. Thriley (talk) 05:11, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

{{re|Thriley]} don't remove merge tags while the discussion is still open. Two support merge, one doesn't. Sometimes merge discussions stay open for years but if we were to close right now it would be to merge based on the current votes (2/3 support merge). We don't have "Vanilla milkshake", we don't have "chocolate milkshake", why should we have date shake? Unless you can answer this question, I am still in support of the merge. Spudlace (talk) 23:51, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

Vanilla and chocolate milkshakes are the standard found globally. They are not specific to one region or a specific region’s unique agricultural product like dates are to the Coachella Valley. The article gives insight into a unique food that part of a fascinating and underwritten piece of California history. It would be a great shame to lose what could be a much more extensive and insightful article.Thriley (talk) 01:36, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

@Thriley: It would be a shame to lose an extensive and insightful article, but this is a perpetual stub without hope of expansion. There is not much to say other than "milkshakes flavored with dates are popular in the Palm Springs area and are considered a distinctive local delicacy". I would change my vote if there was enough content to expand to at least start length. Spudlace (talk) 04:20, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

If it can be demonstrated that the date shake has a particular historical or cultural significance, I would leave it as a stand alone article. If not, I would support merging it. I see that Sweet tea has a separate article. Should it be merged with Iced tea? The date shake is associated with the Coachella Valley because it is a date growing region, and that is why Indio is home to the Riverside County Fair and National Date Festival. I never thought of the date shake as being particularly associated with the city of Palm Springs, as stated in the article, but growing up in Riverside, I do recall trips to the festival and the date shake was a popular novelty there. OvertAnalyzer (talk) 04:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Support. The date shake doesn't seem to be anything other than a milkshake flavoured with dates. JIP | Talk 23:55, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Oppose merge - Date shakes are truly their own thing - especially in Southern California. I just added another citation to a Los Angeles Times from May 2021. I will continue to look for other citations and add them if they are in reliable sources. Netherzone (talk) 16:23, 7 June 2021 (UTC) Following up on this, I just expanded the article and added the citations to these reliable sources: Los Angeles Times, Saveur, Conde Nast Traveler, The Desert Review, Palm Springs Desert Sun, BBC. The drink is not really a milkshake but more of a cross between a fruit smoothie and a milkshake. Somewhere I have photographs shot in the early 2000s, if I will add one; and if I can't find them, will seek a free image online to further improve the article. Netherzone (talk) 17:13, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@Netherzone: These changes look good. I support keeping it as a stand alone article after these changes. Spudlace (talk) 18:06, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Support merge It's a shake flavoured with dates. 23:30, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Oppose merge on the grounds that the changes in June, referenced, support the distinct cultural feature of the Date shake that therefore warrant separate coverage. Klbrain (talk) 18:16, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.